BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 So I am contemplating getting into the 5.45 after shooting my buddies Saiga due to the easy follow up shots and the cheap ammo that is still out there. Is it better to: Buy a Saiga for about $350 and spend a hundred bucks upgrading it? or Buy a fully configured Century Arms Bulgarian Ak74 for $339 and be done with it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 The Saiga, I'm pretty sure that the century 74's are US made non chrome barrels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon09 22 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Saiga, If you can find one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 You're joking, right? This is a joke thread? 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 I wondered the same question but then found out just how kinda crappy the CAI ones are. We are talking about century Arms here (lol)... Do what I'm doing and wait until more 5.45 Saiga's get imported, then buy it. "Buy a Saiga for about $350 and spend a hundred bucks upgrading it?" Well, you are going to shoot the corrosive surplus I assume, then pay the extra $50 for the chromed barrel and gas FSGB. Well worth it. Also, unless you plan on putting folding Ace stocks on it or something it shouldn't be a ton of money to convert. If you are resourceful also, then you can find used parts other people are selling for less too. Saiga! All the way! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 I have both a CAI Bulgy (from back when they were $350 shipped) and a Saiga 5.45 (currently unconverted). I paid more for the Saiga. The CAI doesn't have a chrome lined barrel and the Century furniture sucks. However, it does have the awesome AK-74 muzzle break. The CAI is very accurate and has been flawless aside from a bit of cant. I've shot nothing but corrosive through it, but have gotten no rust due to cleaning diligently afterwards. Once I get a better trigger and PG in the Saiga they will probably shoot equally well--but with the Bulgy I didn't have to put any extra money or time into it. OK, I did add some beat-up KVAR front grips I had lying around, but I'll still be out an extra $100 or so and a few hours by the time I'm done with the Saiga. And it still won't have a proper muzzle break. Now, I love my Saigas. The 7.62 Saiga is second only to my VEPR for accuracy. But I have to say, the Century Bulgy was a great buy and if I could be guaranteed the same rifle I'd get another. That's the problem with Century though... quality control. However, most reviews I've read of the CAI Bulgys have duplicated my experience. They contracted out quite a bit of the production on these which means less monkeying than usual. Given that the 5.45 Saigas won't be available for probably another few months, if you are dying for one get the Century now and wait for the Saiga to be available later. If you had an option for both I'd vote for both Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 You're joking, right? This is a joke thread? This is my serious face, Gary. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 I have both a CAI Bulgy (from back when they were $350 shipped) and a Saiga 5.45 (currently unconverted). I paid more for the Saiga. The CAI doesn't have a chrome lined barrel and the Century furniture sucks. However, it does have the awesome AK-74 muzzle break. The CAI is very accurate and has been flawless aside from a bit of cant. I've shot nothing but corrosive through it, but have gotten no rust due to cleaning diligently afterwards. Once I get a better trigger and PG in the Saiga they will probably shoot equally well--but with the Bulgy I didn't have to put any extra money or time into it. OK, I did add some beat-up KVAR front grips I had lying around, but I'll still be out an extra $100 or so and a few hours by the time I'm done with the Saiga. And it still won't have a proper muzzle break. Now, I love my Saigas. The 7.62 Saiga is second only to my VEPR for accuracy. But I have to say, the Century Bulgy was a great buy and if I could be guaranteed the same rifle I'd get another. That's the problem with Century though... quality control. However, most reviews I've read of the CAI Bulgys have duplicated my experience. They contracted out quite a bit of the production on these which means less monkeying than usual. Given that the 5.45 Saigas won't be available for probably another few months, if you are dying for one get the Century now and wait for the Saiga to be available later. If you had an option for both I'd vote for both Good to know... Thanks! Since we have a 5 to 0 race so far, something that I would like to point out is that by doing a conversion myself, I seriously lose out on the cost of parts and my time if I ever sell it. Even during the height of the drought of Saiga 12's I still couldn't sell my conversion even though it was $200 less than what I had into it in just parts. Versus paying $329 for a CAI, I can probably get more than that out of it if I ever want to sell it. I saw one at the gun show for $745 and I had to laugh knowing that he bought it from J&G for half that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzNectar 35 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 if you can find a saiga then get it as long as its not too pri9ce gouged.dont even think about the century bulgy, you will have a 90% chance of getting a piece of shit build with incorrect barrel size and twist causing bullet tumbling right out the muzzle(keyholing)and you might get a one foot grouping at 50m.pluss if its fucked up century wont do anything to fix/replace it.the other option is an sgl-31 by arsenal.this however is an excellent weapon.look for a sale coming from k-var this october. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rigrat 7 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I have both and like both. What I don't like about the Century is it keyholes whenever it wants to. Mind you not always but it does keyhole at times. Others have got good ones and others have got worse keyholers than I did. Kinda like playing the one arm bandit. You win some and ya loose some, so goes Century Bulgy 74's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) Mine hasn't keyholed, but Century definitely had this problem on some of the Tantals they produced a while back... they were using 5.56 barrels or something closer to that spec which was way too large to stabilize a 5.45 bullet. I haven't heard too much about the newer Bulgys keyholing. But, I wouldn't put it past Century to have used different US barrels at different times, resulting in different performance. They are known for buying whatever is available and cheap. There are at least three US manufacturers of 5.45 barrels, one of them does tend to have a larger bore than what is considered acceptable. So some of the Bulgys might keyhole, while others might not, depending on which run of barrels were used. Again, with any Century product you gamble. With the Bulgy's I'd say your odds of getting a good one is higher than average. Edited August 20, 2010 by rob-cubed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 I own both. I will not say a damn thing as we have no say in this thing. I will say this: My 5.45x39 Saiga is the worst Saiga I own out of 5!!!!!!!!!!!! Frosty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rigrat 7 Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 I own both. I will not say a damn thing as we have no say in this thing. I will say this: My 5.45x39 Saiga is the worst Saiga I own out of 5!!!!!!!!!!!! Frosty I would like to know why it is the worst out of 5 rifles. Out of my two the Saiga and the Century, my Saiga is my best. It would be interesting to me what 5 brands youi have and how you rank them. The worst part about the Century is the barrel, I have re-crowned it and that seemed to help as it cut the group size in half on par with the Saiga. If they could find a decent US barrel to use in these builds they would be pretty spot on. But it seems that the barrels vary widely as some have allot of keyholes , some have a little like me, and some have none. I will also say my front sight on the Century is slightly canted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) my saiga will make man sized (14") groups at 500 yards. I do not expect any CAI rifle to do anywhere close to that. The only reason the above number is 500 is that I haven't tried farther targets YET. Edited August 23, 2010 by toshbar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesavery22 54 Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 I would say good luck with those "soft as butter barrels" you do get what you pay for. Also from Jim Just FYI Buyer Beware' date=' We have rebuilt 2 of these guns, the cost for the first one was 525.00 the cost of the second one was 575.00. There's a reason these guns are cheep. You may luck out and get one that actually works like Mike NV did but my experience is these guns at best are just not complete. To properly build and COMPLETE an AK requires more than what goes into these TGI guns. You don't have to buy one of our guns but at the same time don't count your life on an incomplete budget gun designed for shooters who don't know any better. __________________ Jim Fuller Rifle Dynamics 07FFL/SOT http://www.rifledynamics.com Suarez International staff Instructor/AK Armorer [/quote'] There is no sub $400 AK thats good to go out of the box. Anything in that price range will need some work. Somethings in that price range just aren't worth anything... I've never seen those Century Bulgarian 5.45 builds but they sure sound like they fall in the "not worth anything" bucket. If you're going to go the absolute cheapest route and you actually want a reliable rifle you might as well do a Saiga conversion since whatever you buy in that range will need some work... Unfortunately 5.45 Saiga's are out of stock everywhere... It sucks I know. So I understand the appeal of these deals. I'd rather a hand picked wasr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 There's a reason these guns are cheep. You may luck out and get one that actually works like Mike NV did but my experience is these guns at best are just not complete. To properly build and COMPLETE an AK requires more than what goes into these TGI guns. - He was talking about fixing a CAI or a Saiga? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 There is no sub $400 AK thats good to go out of the box.Anything in that price range will need some work. Somethings in that price range just aren't worth anything... I'm sorry, but that's just not true. WASRs will run and shoot just fine and are well below $400. Sure the fit and finish is awful, but it's an AK, not an H&H. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 I would say got with the Bulgy one at CenterfireSystems for $370 with 3 mags included if you can't wait.. & Free shipping.. Its got Poly furniture.. but that can be easily changed.. If I didn't have my Saiga 545 I would buy one in a minute for that price.. Al 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 Its got Poly furniture.. but that can be easily changed.. That probably ought to be factored into the cost calculations. I don't know of anyone who gets one of these that does not end up changing the furniture. I've handled one, and the furniture is not acceptable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 That probably ought to be factored into the cost calculations. I don't know of anyone who gets one of these that does not end up changing the furniture. I've handled one, and the furniture is not acceptable. Yeah if there's one serious gripe I have with Century (aside from monkeying) it's their crappy furniture. First it was their handguards which are impossible to grip and overheat easy... and now it's their stocks since they've moved past Tapco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Yeah if there's one serious gripe I have with Century (aside from monkeying) it's their crappy furniture. First it was their handguards which are impossible to grip and overheat easy... and now it's their stocks since they've moved past Tapco. Yep. The buttstock puts me in mind of a beached whale. And the ergonomics of it are terrible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rickyrifle 1 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 jamesavery22, I don't own either but please note Jim Fuller was commenting on TGI's "truck gun" - not CAI's '74. FWIW, Gabe Suarez has had vey positive comments on the CAI '74's reliability. But don't take my word for it - do a search in his forum. Peace, RR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 jamesavery22, I don't own either but please note Jim Fuller was commenting on TGI's "truck gun" - not CAI's '74. FWIW, Gabe Suarez has had vey positive comments on the CAI '74's reliability. But don't take my word for it - do a search in his forum. Peace, RR Saurez will talk up anything if you pay him enough. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 jamesavery22, I don't own either but please note Jim Fuller was commenting on TGI's "truck gun" - not CAI's '74. FWIW, Gabe Suarez has had vey positive comments on the CAI '74's reliability. But don't take my word for it - do a search in his forum. Peace, RR Saurez will talk up anything if you pay him enough. A rare +1 for you Nalioth.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Think of Gabe Suarez as the Billy Mays of the gun world... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Right now I would get a Romy as bottom line. Probably from Henderson Defense but they are out of them right now. The CIA AK74 is iffy. I handled one and wasnt much impressed. Everyone says they replace the lousy furniture. Thats $100.00 or so for a really decent set. Not really a bargain especially as you may get a bad barrel. I have a CIA early Tantal and the bore slugs at .224. Shoots 30 inch groups at 25 yards with 60 gr Wolf. Yeah, thats 30. All keyholes even from a cold barrel. The 5.45x39 bullets Ive measured run .220 to.2215. If you get a CIA make sure who you buy it from will take it back if it has problems. If I could buy anything, Id just get one from Red Jacket or Tromix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corejob 0 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I recently purchased a CAI, despite having mixed sucsess in the past with one of their Golanis (the first one sucked, but they sent me a replacement than runs great). I paid close to $400 at a local shop, and mostly bough it for the cheap ammo. I didn't expect much, but aside from sight cant (fixed with a few blows from a lead hammer) it has been a great rifle. I just finished off my first can of surplus Russian ammo with zero problems. On top of that, it's proving to be a pretty reliable 2-3 MOA rifle - at least until it gets hot. Mine does lack the scope rail on the left side of the receiver, but as I planned this to be an iron sight gun, I can live with it. The furniture is pretty cheap, and I'm in the process of replacing it. To be honest, I'd be inclined to buy the Saiga next time and do the conversion myself, just to get the chromed barrel and knowing that I was going to be replacing the furniture anyway. Still, I'd consider my CAI AK-74 to be well worth what I paid for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I was going to suggest some Tech Sights, but I see you already have them. Did they come on the gun? NICE. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corejob 0 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 I was going to suggest some Tech Sights, but I see you already have them. Did they come on the gun? NICE. No. I've been adding stuff here and there. Looking for a Saiga gas tube because I am going to use a real Galil forend rather than the Tapco thing, which doesn't feel right. I machined out the original rear sight last night. It has a much better sight picture with the Tech Sight now. Need to use some epoxy pain to match. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 (edited) Well, the CAI unit may initially be more accurate because of the lack of chrome. But over time, that lack of chrome will make it rust faster. It is a hard call. For the civilian shooter, who may not wear out a barrel, who may only shoot once or twice a month, the CAI unit is tempting. For professionals, or civilian assholes (like myself), the chrome lining is essential. Edited November 4, 2010 by bigsal 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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