one2za 7 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I was wondering if anybody has tried trap & skeet with your Saiga 12, and if so, what ammo and shot size you'd recommend. Also which is easier for the novice, trap or skeet? It seems like it would be a fun thing to try. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 Yep I like to shoot clays...try 7 1/2 shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rjrivero 50 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 (edited) A lot of skeet fields have a limit on the size of shot you're allowed to use. My club will only allow 7 1/2 for maximum shot size because they don't carry as far as the larger shot. Which is easier? In my opinion, trap is easier. The leads are more consistent than they are with skeet. Both are worth the effort. They really improve your shotgun handling and getting you used to pulling the trigger on the move, which is a lost art for most gunners. And yes, I enjoy shooting skeet, trap, and 5 stand with my saiga. They only allow me to load 2 rounds, so every mag I have gets two rounds and I keep swapping them from station to station. Edited August 29, 2010 by rjrivero Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I've used Federal Bulk in 7.5 shot for sporting clays. It was a lot of fun! Oh, and I used PolyChoke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 (edited) Thread Title Search Results Trap = 19 hits Skeet = 21 hits Clays = 13 hits Oh hell yeah, I'll shoot trap/skeet or just chucking clays up by any means available. We've a nice trap wobbler at our regular range and clays are cheap fun, wish they would put in a Skeet range. Cylinder bore or choked, shooting inexpensive Wally World Federal value pack #7.5. Wanna a real challenge? Go find a range with a good Sporting Clay range. I never had so much fun missing shots, seriously challenging. Edited August 29, 2010 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I did abysmal this weekend, but I was using freshly installed chaos sights, and I havn't zeroed them yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sharpshooter 225 0 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 I was wondering if anybody has tried trap & skeet with your Saiga 12, and if so, what ammo and shot size you'd recommend. For the Skeet range, use 1-1/8 oz #9 shot loads with your Saiga's cylinder bore choke. I prefer the Winchester AA Heavy Skeet loads ($2 a box rebate going on right now). The #9 shot will put more pellets on the target, and increase your odds of breaking it in the fringe area on the outside of the pattern. If you don't shoot the skeet birds by mid-field (anything over about 25-30 yards), you may want to consider using an Improved Cylinder choke (or better yet a Skeet choke tube via one of the adapters that Cobra sells). Also which is easier for the novice, trap or skeet? Depends on the shooter and the gun. For the Trap range, use 1-1/8 oz of #7-1/2 shot. Get at least 1250 fps loads and use a tighter choke. When you are up on the 16 yard line, you might be able to get by with a Modified choke, but when you are back on the 27 yard line you will need the tightness of a Full choke tube. It seems like it would be a fun thing to try. Yes it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rjrivero 50 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Thread Title Search Results Trap = 19 hits Skeet = 21 hits Clays = 13 hits I thought at first glance that these were your latest SCORES in each of the diciplines. I'm an idiot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 You will most definitely want to invest in a choke. The Poly-choke are nice but for the price you can pick up a factory full choke for around $40-50. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) they are a hoot to shoot, but I shoot them better with more traditional shotguns (just a word to the wise) Skeet are closer shots with much more lateral movement so you have to lead the targets more. Pronounced leeeeeed, involving shooting in front of the target , not led as in the materials the pellets are made of. Open choke and small bb's are optimum (cylinder bore and #9 for example). Trap are all going away, less lateral movement but longer shots. Larger bb's, tighter choke (7.5 + full choke for example) Sporting clays is the game of the devil! everything from near to far, fast to slow, going away to crossing, etc etc etc. Many folks decent in the other game shoot < 75% of SC targets ... some a LOT less. These are all >> $$ than hand thrown targets in the field ... but it's VERY worth it ... Consistency, trouble free, concentrate on shooting only ... it's a good thing! All of the above are suggestions (shot/choke) If you have a modified choke and #8 shot you've got a very good all around combo. Edited August 30, 2010 by kmoore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted August 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) You will most definitely want to invest in a choke. The Poly-choke are nice but for the price you can pick up a factory full choke for around $40-50. Where/how would one order one of the factory full chokes? Oh yeah, and do you need a barrel nut? Edited August 30, 2010 by one2za Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Chokes are symmetric so no barrel nut is needed. I'm not sure who else has them but Saige Stock has the factory chokes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted August 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Chokes are symmetric so no barrel nut is needed. I'm not sure who else has them but Saige Stock has the factory chokes. I found out how to order from Dinzag, but I was wondering if I needed a barrel nut because Carolina Shooters Supply recommends one with the POLY-CHOKE II Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 It may be a stock thing that CSS has for all their chokes/brakes/hiders. I bought a Chaos barrel nut when I bought my break from them (Chaos, that is) but I bought my PolyChoke from CSS and did not buy one. I would suspect that no one uses a barrel nut with their PolyChoke but I could be wrong. If you concerned email Greg at CSS. He has been very responsive when I have emailed him with questions and will get back to you soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 no barrel nut needed. saigastock indeed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted August 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) Anybody been to Indian River Trap & Skeet in Vero Beach, Florida? They have a website but thus far have been unresponsive to email inquiries. P.S.: Thanks for all of the input. Edited August 31, 2010 by one2za Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 That would be a bit of a stretch for me ... maybe in the dead of winter I could justify a trip down! Look, I'm just going to say this ... often the Saiga's are looked down on in these types of crowds. It has two strikes against it. It is an autoloader (O/U's are the only way to shoot this sport ... according to the snooty). You can get past this and they'll tolerate semi's, especially those set up for the sport with a strong nods going to beretta's (my experience) and it must be back bored, have adjustable stock/comb, etc ... Don't believe me, take a look at their guns for sale section. The more italian sounding the name, the more status it'll get you. The second strike is a little more difficult to get past. It's black and plastic and scary looking! And, more importantly, it doesn't lock open readily! So, be prepared to manually lock open your shotgun between turns. Or, use a visable chamber flag. In a pinch, you can close the bolt on an empty hull that hangs out the side ... etiquette dictates that you show all that the shotty is empty. I don't want to scare you off, clays of all varieties are a hoot to shoot. I just don't want you to be unprepared. Don't get razzled, explain that this is the shotgun that you have for now, and concentrate on having fun. Also, you are going to find that you may get a LOT of advice ... I did when I first started out (sxs 20ga MANY years ago, graduated to an 1187 in 12ga and my scores jumped 7-8 birds immediately ... now I have a variety of shotguns, but I still shoot them best with that 1187!), digest what you can and try what makes sense. The regulars have shot many thousands of clays ... in the last year. They have tried everything and know a lot of tricks. Some are worthwhile, some won't work for you! As for not answering your emails ... these may be "check email once a month" types? Doesn't look like you need to reserve a time slot. Likely you show up and wait for an opening. Often shooters are grouped together and shoot as a squad. Unless it's super busy, there's no "tee time" and it's not run on a tight schedule. If you have questions to ask, you might just try his cell number (listed on his site). Hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted September 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Wow, thanks for the time and effort and great replies. I love this forum. I did some lurking at Shotgun Worldand quickly came to the same conclusions that kmoore was advising about. I could swear I smelled pipe tobacco, HA! I have to admit it's intimidating. Jeeze, I just want to have some fun with my S-12. I just learned that the outdoor range in Sebastian, Florida, offers 5 stand on Saturdays & Sundays. (Don't totally know what that is yet either.) I guess I'll have a talk with both of these facilities and see if I feel more comfortable about it. One thing I read, cautioned about semi's ejecting rounds and bouncing off another guy's $2000 shotty. Not sure how to prevent that possibility. Wish I knew someone with lots of land. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 One thing I read, cautioned about semi's ejecting rounds and bouncing off another guy's $2000 shotty. Not sure how to prevent that possibility. You could always set your gas system to "1" instead of "2", then your gun might not cycle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 One thing I read, cautioned about semi's ejecting rounds and bouncing off another guy's $2000 shotty. Not sure how to prevent that possibility. You could always set your gas system to "1" instead of "2", then your gun might not cycle. I like it .... just remove the gas plug Or tell them they can throw an empty at your shotgun as hard as they can? Let me reiterate, not every clay shooter it as anal or uptight as the examples we point out ... but they DEFINITELY exist ... and sometimes they run the place ... Just feel your way into the crowd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 One thing I read, cautioned about semi's ejecting rounds and bouncing off another guy's $2000 shotty. Not sure how to prevent that possibility. You could always set your gas system to "1" instead of "2", then your gun might not cycle. I like it .... just remove the gas plug Or tell them they can throw an empty at your shotgun as hard as they can? Let me reiterate, not every clay shooter it as anal or uptight as the examples we point out ... but they DEFINITELY exist ... and sometimes they run the place ... Just feel your way into the crowd. I don't know if I would completely remove the gas plug, since then all the residue will spew out of the front of your gun. Just make it short cycle and they would be fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thepatriot 0 Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 My Saiga works great for trap shooting. I don't have a choke and use Estate 7.5 shot. My Fastfire II is easy to aquire the clays quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted September 4, 2010 Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 ...One thing I read, cautioned about semi's ejecting rounds and bouncing off another guy's $2000 shotty. Not sure how to prevent that possibility... I wouldn't waste any time/effort worrying about that.. shotgun shells have plastic hulls and brass bases, (brass is softer than steel). In the unlikely event that that ever happened and some Fudd with a $2k O/U bitched about it, my advice is to ask him what kind of shitty Italian steel his gun is made of that he has to be concerned about brass damaging it. Then watch him squirm or walk away. Stupid fuckin Fudds. ...Wish I knew someone with lots of land. You're just in the wrong state, but more specifically in the wrong part of the state. I grew up in Melbourne Beach.. and when I wanted to shoot some clays, my friends and I would just find a nice quiet part of the swamp and do whatever the hell we wanted, (mostly hand-thrown clays.. talk about unpredictable! ). Hell, I used to just pull off certain parts of the highway, (the one between Melbourne and Orlando, forget the number), and blast palm trees to relieve stress. Anyway, many years later, I've settled in Colorado. Acres and acres, and acres of wide-open, dry, BLM land.. and nobody minds if you shoot out there. I haven't been to an actual "range", (bullshit rules and fees), in years. ymmv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted September 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 Checked out the County Range today and found out that they have no problem with semi's (Everyone who shoots has to fill out a liability disclaimer and shoots at their own risk), so no worries if a shell damages someone else's gun. Also they do have a criss cross lattice work between stands that offers pretty good protection. They say that in all their years, they've never had a problem. They only offer their version of 5 stand. No sporting clays any more. The only problem I see is the reloading. The stand has no real shelf to lay down your gun, just the width of a 2 x 4, enough to put down a box of 25 rounds but not to lay the Saiga down while two-handed reloading, so I guess I have to develop the skill to drop the mag, reload it with two rounds, reinsert the mag and charge it, all while holding the rifle. Maybe a little easier if I use the sling, but I neglected to ask if that was allowed. Any thoughts or experience?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Checked out the County Range today and found out that they have no problem with semi's (Everyone who shoots has to fill out a liability disclaimer and shoots at their own risk), so no worries if a shell damages someone else's gun. Also they do have a criss cross lattice work between stands that offers pretty good protection. They say that in all their years, they've never had a problem. They only offer their version of 5 stand. No sporting clays any more. The only problem I see is the reloading. The stand has no real shelf to lay down your gun, just the width of a 2 x 4, enough to put down a box of 25 rounds but not to lay the Saiga down while two-handed reloading, so I guess I have to develop the skill to drop the mag, reload it with two rounds, reinsert the mag and charge it, all while holding the rifle. Maybe a little easier if I use the sling, but I neglected to ask if that was allowed. Any thoughts or experience?? I don't remember what I did the few registered rounds of skeet I shot with mine (never did trap). First hint ... you can use the box of shells as it's own holder ... open the top and tuck the top into your waste band, allowing the open box to hang from your belt. I've done this plenty of times when I don't have a vest with me. Would this allow you to rest the shotty on the shelf? Second, if you are shooting trap, you'll only be loading one at a time. You could consider loading singles thru the open bolt? less wrangling than loading the actual mag. This might be a bit hard on the extractor? Maybe you can push them down into the mag? Never done this before. But my favorite advice is to .... buy 25 mags and load them all as needed I think your question about slings is a fair one, that would be a very good way to go (IMO). make sure you get one that doesn't have your shotty "sweeping" your squad mates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted September 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Anyone else out there care to elaborate on how you load two at a time with no bench? I've been experimenting with this at home with snap caps: After setting the bolt open, (my kingdom for a LRBHO!)I put my right forearm under the rifle, in front of the pistol grip and resting it there while I remove the 5 rd mag with my left hand and transfer it to my right hand, feed lips left. Then I grab rounds from my left and insert them with the left hand while holding the mag in my right hand. Reinsert mag and wait for turn before chambering round. (I wish they'd let you fill the magazine) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Anyone else out there care to elaborate on how you load two at a time with no bench? I've been experimenting with this at home with snap caps: After setting the bolt open, (my kingdom for a LRBHO!)I put my right forearm under the rifle, in front of the pistol grip and resting it there while I remove the 5 rd mag with my left hand and transfer it to my right hand, feed lips left. Then I grab rounds from my left and insert them with the left hand while holding the mag in my right hand. Reinsert mag and wait for turn before chambering round. (I wish they'd let you fill the magazine) You mean they won't let you just put rounds in the magazine with the gun on a rack or resting up against the railing of the stand? I've thought about using my 3 5-rounders and 1 2-rounder (Surefire, not Russian, yet ) the next time I go shooting sporting clays with my Saiga. That way, when it is my turn, I'll have two rounds loaded in each magazine and after each pair I can just put a new magazine in. But none of the places I've been watches you like a hawk. They don't want you to load more than 2 rounds, and I don't but they didn't have someone watching you at all times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted September 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Anyone else out there care to elaborate on how you load two at a time with no bench? I've been experimenting with this at home with snap caps: After setting the bolt open, (my kingdom for a LRBHO!)I put my right forearm under the rifle, in front of the pistol grip and resting it there while I remove the 5 rd mag with my left hand and transfer it to my right hand, feed lips left. Then I grab rounds from my left and insert them with the left hand while holding the mag in my right hand. Reinsert mag and wait for turn before chambering round. (I wish they'd let you fill the magazine) You mean they won't let you just put rounds in the magazine with the gun on a rack or resting up against the railing of the stand? I'm not sure just what they'll let you do. First of all, there's no rack, just a 2 x 4 wall about 3 feet high, and as far as resting it barrel upward against something, I'm just going on the general rule of "gun must always be pointed down range." I've thought about using my 3 5-rounders and 1 2-rounder (Surefire, not Russian, yet ) the next time I go shooting sporting clays with my Saiga. So, you've been before with your Saiga? How did you handle the reloading? That way, when it is my turn, I'll have two rounds loaded in each magazine and after each pair I can just put a new magazine in. Let's see, 4 mags, 2 rounds each, that's 8 rounds. Even if they let you fill the 5 rounders, (my range won't), that'll come to 18 rounds, still 7 rounds shy of the 25 required. But none of the places I've been watches you like a hawk. They don't want you to load more than 2 rounds, and I don't but they didn't have someone watching you at all times. Well, the range guy who stands right behind you with his electric gizmo probably would be focusing on the next guy he moves to while you're reloading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Anyone else out there care to elaborate on how you load two at a time with no bench? I've been experimenting with this at home with snap caps: After setting the bolt open, (my kingdom for a LRBHO!)I put my right forearm under the rifle, in front of the pistol grip and resting it there while I remove the 5 rd mag with my left hand and transfer it to my right hand, feed lips left. Then I grab rounds from my left and insert them with the left hand while holding the mag in my right hand. Reinsert mag and wait for turn before chambering round. (I wish they'd let you fill the magazine) You mean they won't let you just put rounds in the magazine with the gun on a rack or resting up against the railing of the stand? I'm not sure just what they'll let you do. First of all, there's no rack, just a 2 x 4 wall about 3 feet high, and as far as resting it barrel upward against something, I'm just going on the general rule of "gun must always be pointed down range." I've thought about using my 3 5-rounders and 1 2-rounder (Surefire, not Russian, yet ) the next time I go shooting sporting clays with my Saiga. So, you've been before with your Saiga? How did you handle the reloading? That way, when it is my turn, I'll have two rounds loaded in each magazine and after each pair I can just put a new magazine in. Let's see, 4 mags, 2 rounds each, that's 8 rounds. Even if they let you fill the 5 rounders, (my range won't), that'll come to 18 rounds, still 7 rounds shy of the 25 required. But none of the places I've been watches you like a hawk. They don't want you to load more than 2 rounds, and I don't but they didn't have someone watching you at all times. Well, the range guy who stands right behind you with his electric gizmo probably would be focusing on the next guy he moves to while you're reloading. The place at which we were shooting, one of your friends was the trapper. There was a plastic box that held a counter that recorded how many clays you had thrown (this you took from stand to stand) and at each stand was a box with buttons on it for throwing the clays. I liked it a lot because you could very easily communicate to whomever was trapper for you to show you a sample pair, when you wanted it pulled and if you needed it rethrown because of a problem with the thrower. To handle loading, I just rested my gun up against the rail (like it would be if it was resting on a stand) and loaded the magazines. I got to the point by the end that I could cradle it, load the magazines while holding it in my left hand and using my right to put the shells in. Just to note, this was 8 shots a stand so 4 either report or following pairs. I have been to places that are five shots a stand. Either way, it would be easier if they would just let me load up one time at each stand. Thus if I was at a place with 8 shots per stand I could use my Surefire 8-rounder (or Russian 8 once it arrives from the UK) or my Russian 5-rounder if I was at a place with 5 shots per stand. But because I doubt anyone would ever let you do it, I think I'll stick with my plan of taking four mags and loading 2 rounds in each right before it is my turn to say "pull" so that my turn takes less time. It sounds like you're at a place with 5 shots per stand. Then you would need 3 mags, one with one round and 2 with 2 rounds. Then just reload before each stand. I've actually discussed having a custom magazine pouch made for me by my friend's wife who has a sewing business on the side. That way it would hold a box of shells and the four magazines so I wouldn't need 5 arms! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rjrivero 50 Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) Single point sling. I have a traditional Trap/Skeet belt pouch from Wally World wearing the winchester name. It holds a full box of shells on your belt with a dump pouch underneath to hold your "empties" for those who reload. That dump pouch holds my mags loaded with 2 rounds each. After I shoot, I reload. Then I drop the mag back into the pouch. With a single point sling, I can let the gun hang at my chest, muzzle down and have both hands free to load another two rounds into each magazine I just used at that station, ready for the next. I never insert a mag BEFORE getting to the shooting line. It's a BAD habit from a safety standpoint as well as an etiquette standpoint. You're gun should be Empty and ACTION OPEN when not on the firing line. If you don't have a BHO, then use a chamber flag to show everyone the gun is empty when not in the shooting station. The pouch. The bag looks like this one, and is commonly available from Gander Mountain, Cabela's etc. The sling I use is a Magpul MS-2. The chamber flag I like the most is the one from Arredondo. LINK HERE. We use them in 3 gun and the arm of the flag fits nicely into the slot for the extractor. Whatever works for you, the entire idea is SAFETY. Edited September 9, 2010 by rjrivero 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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