Saiga 308.. MOA rifle..???

[mikegraffam 11]

I was thining about buying a Socom M1A thing, but the more I think about it I might go with the Saiga 308 I would like to see a head to head match up between the two of them. I mean in terms of MOA and reliablity.

 

What do you guys think is the SOCOM worth the extra money, keep in mind that if I go with the Saiga 308 I'll do the conversion myself.

 

John

 

I have a SOCOM. Great gun. I got about 3-4" out of the box @ 100yds with milsurp. After about 200 rds, those groups have started to shrink and its more like 2.5 - 3". Not sure if the gun is breaking in some, or if I'm just getting a handle on her better. I haven't tried quality ammo with it yet.

 

No accuracy mods have been done to this gun yet. I also have a full-length Springfield Loaded model. It shot about the same out of the box with ammo from the same batch of milsurp. I've put a few NM extras into the Loaded, and dropped it into a shimmed up GI stock. It gives me just-barely sub-MOA now: the average thus far is .86" with Remington match ammo.

 

I intend to work up the SOCOM in a similar fashion down the line.

 

I think the M1A is heads and shoulders above the AK platform. It's not just about the accuracy.. its about the way the gun handles itself as it heats up. The groups come together a bit as they heat up and those fliers come in tighter and it maintains that. I haven't been able to afford to get the groups to really start opening up due to heat. I've put as many as 200 rds through each over the course of an hour blasting away and then taking the time to really shoot a group. They always shoot well.. POI does change some w/ heat but it GROUPS.. Certainly fine for minute-of-man. There are some fairly well known and well documented procedures for making accuracy enhancements to the platform.. so you can take it as far as you want to go. Spare parts are reasonably plentiful, and you can upgrade to genuine USGI parts, or aftermarket NM stuff if desired.

 

The Saiga 308 has some advantages in terms of affordability, and accessories. Spare parts are no where, but for the price of a single M1A you can get several Saigas.. which really is a huge win.

 

So, it depends on what you want. I specifically wanted a carbine for CQ and man-sized targets from 50 to 150yds and a full size rifle for sub-MOA that could exchange parts and mags, and I wanted it in 308. Thats a pretty short list.

[mikegraffam 11]

You have to remember that many of the groups shown (and all of mine). Are shot with wolf or brown bear ammo.

 

The simple truth is that these rifles are accurate enough for practical purposes. And even shot decently with cheap ammo.

 

Here are guys talking about their M1As most commenting 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with Nato ammo. A few talk about sub MOA but they are also talking about very high end setups, barrel replacements ect. Heck their barrels probably cost more then my rifle did.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275663

 

This is true, but it also depends on what your definition of "practical" is. 3-4 inch with NATO is the accepted average. I've had batches that did much better for me. My record small group with NATO ammo was 1.2".. and I've had many that were in the 1.5-2" range. My M1A is somewhat tuned up, but nothing fancy.

 

But you don't have to replace the barrel. My Springfield Loaded model came with a NM medium weight barrel. I was out the door with it for $1600. With Remington match ammo I can get just under the wire into sub-MOA groups at about .86". I have a feeling the rifle can do better, but I haven't managed to do my part.

[corbin 621]

Other than polishing the FCG and maybe reducing takeup and overtravel with shims or allen screws, what things have people done to help their 308 Saiga rifles get as much accuracy as they can? I'm not talking about barrel replacement or making it into a single shot bench rest rifle, but things the average shooter can do (or have done) without having to spend hundreds of dollars.

 

I don't remember who posted the pic of this highly modded 308 Saiga, but this is not the extent to which I'm wanting to go:

 

 

Neat setup though, albeit way heavier than I'd want to carry around for long.

[Dudethebagman 222]

Other than polishing the FCG and maybe reducing takeup and overtravel with shims or allen screws, what things have people done to help their 308 Saiga rifles get as much accuracy as they can? I'm not talking about barrel replacement or making it into a single shot bench rest rifle, but things the average shooter can do (or have done) without having to spend hundreds of dollars.

 

 

Roll your own ammo and tune it to the individual rifle. Or at least use quality ammo. Don't shoot it until it's red hot and expect much accuracy. It's never going to be a bolt gun, but dumping magazine after magazine of Wolf doesn't help accuracy any. Accuracy has its price.

[csspecs 1,987]

A set of shooting bags helps if you don't have them.

 

Otherwise, some things that can help are to keep the trunnion clean and slightly oiled so the bolt closes evenly. Wipe the bolt down every so often, again so it closes consistently.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Accuracy in military style battle rifles is a pretty dicey thing as they are designed to used abused and still pump out a high rate of fire.

In other words wrong tool.

Now a 308 Savage 10 GLXP3 with accu-trigger there is a real bargain for accuracy. Just dont expect it to do what the MBR does.

 

I assume we are talking about a converted rifle.

Anyway outside of shortening the barrel (if its 21" now) to 18" with a nice crown and getting busy with reloading possibly installing a good set of sights not much else to be done.