Calling all mechanics...

[Heath_h49008 442]

The left handed tap method will work, just remember to dip the tap in thick grease to catch the chips.

 

A faster method would be a bolt that nearly fits the hole (Small) and some JB Weld. Hit it with bake parts cleaner to ensure good contact, let it dry overnight and just crank it out in the morning.

 

I use the 5 minute version to mold lost locking lug nut "key" inside a normal socket.

[308SAIGA 55]

If you bring the piston all the way up, drill it, stick a magnet in the hole to get the big chunks out, blow it out with compressed air, start the engine with the plug not in there for a few seconds. You will be fine. I have done this a couple of times. The big chunks are what you have to worry about.

 

If you do this and are able to even get the magnet in the tinny hole you still have a problem with shavings going into the valves, because when you bring your piston to the top you open the valves.....

[geepelton 105]

If you bring the piston all the way up, drill it, stick a magnet in the hole to get the big chunks out, blow it out with compressed air, start the engine with the plug not in there for a few seconds. You will be fine. I have done this a couple of times. The big chunks are what you have to worry about.

 

If you do this and are able to even get the magnet in the tinny hole you still have a problem with shavings going into the valves, because when you bring your piston to the top you open the valves.....

Bring it up on the compression stroke, sorry forgot to say that.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I'd soak it with penatrating oil first.

I personally would use some Really Good Shit.

It really is really good shit.

 

 

Best oil I've ever found.

Yeah, it sounds like a joke, but Pops is a mechanical engineer & he turned me onto it.

 

STOP HEATING IT!!!!!!

 

Vortec heads are aluminium & your plug's steel, so you may have already forge welded the threads together if you heated the plug section to bright cherry red & scaling.

 

I'd soak it in RGS penetrating oil, Tap it a few times with a socket extension & hammer to break the corrosion, & use the easy out, turning it with a 12 point socket, it's the same as the left handed tap method.

 

But if the steel was heated to the point of bright cherry red & scaling, the aluminum could have slightly melted & formed to the scaling of the steel... Then you're screwed.

 

You could try to drill it all out & re-tap, but you may be stuck going to a salvage yard & buying a used Vortec cylinder head... If you get to that point, you may as well throw the impact wrench on it.

 

Once again, keep the damn oxy-acetylene torch away from it. Aluminum has a MUCH lower melt point than steel.

The MAPP Gas you used will melt steel & aluminum as well.

 

 

ETA; if anyone out there with newer cars are reading this, this is the perfect example of why we use anti-seize on plugs now days. Steel plugs & aluminium heads = slight oxidation & this shit if you don't.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Paulyski

[Diesel42 7]

What Paulyski said.

 

I work on 30 year old Toyota Land Cruisers and want to share something y'all haven't mentioned yet.

 

Red's Oil. You can google the story, Red was a guy that figured he could make a better gun solvent than Hoppe's No 9. Red's Oil is okay for cleaning guns, but it's fantastic for removing rusted or grunged bolts. Mix equal parts: diesel, mineral spirits, ATF fluid and acetone. Spray it on and tap with an easy out or LH tap.

 

Be very careful using heat because you want the head threads to expand, not the plug. In college, I broke out one stuck bolt using liquid nitrogen (I had access to a lab, but no money for penetrating oil).LOL.

 

Best of luck,

Nick

[termite 463]

Heat it cherry red, don't melt it, just cherry red, soak it quick with kroil, then use the ease-out. I have to remove pipe plugs from the cast iron pumps we do, I just turn that little bastard cherry red, let it sit a minute, and then twist it out. If the car has aluminum heads, you may be screwed with too much heat, but if you booger the threads in the head, there is a kit made to fix it pretty easy. It's a drill/tap combination that recuts threads next size larger, you then insert a threaded adapter and you're done.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Heat it cherry red, don't melt it, just cherry red, soak it quick with kroil, then use the ease-out. I have to remove pipe plugs from the cast iron pumps we do, I just turn that little bastard cherry red, let it sit a minute, and then twist it out. If the car has aluminum heads, you may be screwed with too much heat, but if you booger the threads in the head, there is a kit made to fix it pretty easy. It's a drill/tap combination that recuts threads next size larger, you then insert a threaded adapter and you're done.

Spray a stream of oil onto bright cherry red heated steel?

 

I hope you have a fire extinguisher handy!

Otherwise, one wouldn't have to worry about the plug piece anymore.

 

Heating & turning while hot MAY work, but it may expand the steel ring & head's plug hole also... But if one's lucky, it may still be able to run... I'd expect that the sensor to the right is toast though.

This screwup is a real bitch.

 

ETA; Vortec heads are aluminum.... At least on the 350s. & the 4.3L is a 350 block with the back 2 cylinders removed.

 

ETA; I did pass the ASE test when I took it a few years back as a friend did... I just HATE working on cars, so I'd NEVER do it professionally.

 

edited to change 4.6 to 4.3... I drive a 4.6 & have the # stuck in my head.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Paulyski

[G O B 3,516]

Drill the old plug base out to about .15-.20 bigger than the threads on a good plug. Put the EZ out in a tap wrench that has a 3/8" drive in the rear , turn down the torque on a 3/8 air hammer or reduce the air pressure and hammer away. It may take some time but the light hammering will worry the bastard out. Brute force always ends badly in these situations, penetrating oil, drilling out as much metal to reduce it's strength,several heat cycles, and even cooling the plug base with CO2 to shrink it all help. BUT letting the air hammer work on it at reduced torque is what will finally work the bastard out.

 

With 5 kids, I was always building a hooptie for one of them. K cars were always cheep as the head would warp when the water pump leaked, and they were available for $200 all the time. I would pull the head and file it flat, and then tap the head to 11MM from the stock 10 MM. Then use the turbo head bolts. After about a dozen times I wore out the air hammer - but I still use the same tap!

[IndyArms 10,186]

I will have to second the LH tap and bolt idea... Coupled with lots of GOOD penetrating oil and the NOT HEAT notion with the differing metals... too much heat is NOT your friend there...

 

BESIDES.... Dont forget... This is the SAIGA forum... the HOME OF LEFT HANDED THREADING!!!

 

That is almost an OMEN of good fortune, that THAT is the way to go, bro!!

 

AND... A small amount of SMALL shavings ought to just blow out on the exhaust stroke anyways... like was also said... just keep the big chunks out.

 

Keep us posted! GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

[6500rpm 670]

Shannon, I like GOB's idea the best so far. Soak the shit oit of it and I think GOB meant .15-.20 smaller than the threads on the plug and use a good quality easy out with a 3/8" impact. I'm not sure how much room you have to work with which is the real bithch. By drilling out the center you effectively stress relieve the situation somewhat. I like the easy outs that look like pins with raised lines that you hammer in (if I've got mine at home I'll post a pic). the good thing is that it's a fairly large diameter hole so your easy out should have a fair amout of meat to it and it's less likely to snap. the small impact shouldn't have too much torque, and still has the hammering action to help break things free. Worse case if you strip or have to drill out the threads they make specific repair kits as the threads are known to strip out of aluminum heads. Sorry bro, just take your time and when your done blow out as much shit as possible and maybe start it for a few seconds with the pug out and let the engine blow the rest out before you put the plug in. I'm not sure about bringing the piston TDC while your drilling unless your really careful. LH drill bits are nice because they rotate in the same dirrection that the plug unthreads, sometimes you get lucky and as the pressure on the threads decreases from drilling the bit will back out or catch and back out the broken plug end. That's about all I've got to offer up without going into extreme measures..

[termite 463]

My BAD, I didn't mean to soak it with kroil when it was glowing orange, but to let it cool for a few minutes, the heat expands the metal and then the kroil will get in between the threads easier. But as some have posted, this engine must have aluminum heads, so best thing to do is "warm" it with the propane torch and soak it, NOT WHEN IT'S BAD HOT, use the ease out and force it out. You WILL screw up the threads in the head, but don't panic, as I said, they make a kit for this. I used to drive and build hot rodded VW'S and screwed up the plug threads in the heads, UNTIL I was given a BIG tub of never seize. There's a million different types, so get what's best for the metals you're using. I use the Dow Moly GN paste at the shop.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Geez Pauly this ain't my first rodeo cuz....

 

I do appreciate your help but dang man, gimme some credit here. I've been working on cars since I graduated HS in '83, with 3 yrs of Auto shop. I'd never bake an aluminum cake around a spark plug....

 

When was the last time you saw aluminum rust? Did you look at the actual head in the pics or just the flame? The heads are cast Iron, like the block.

I don't know what to make of that RGS but I sure never heard of it....are you trying to jerk my Gurkin?

 

Here's the info the engine we are talking about here.

 

 

V6

 

[edit] 4300

The Vortec 4300 is a 90° V6 truck engine, replacing the Chevrolet 250 in light trucks and 200 cu in (3.3 L) and 229 cu in (3.8 L) 90-degree V6s in passenger cars. The 4300 is based on the 350 cu in (5.7 L) Chevrolet small-block V8, and first appeared in 1985 with the throttle-body injected LB4 in passenger cars; light trucks and vans used Quadrajet carburetors for 1985. In 1991, the limited-edition GMC Syclone featured a 280 hp (210 kW) and 350 lb·ft (475 N·m) turbocharged and intercooled LB4 with the first use of multi-point fuel injection on a Vortec V6. The central-port injected L35 (Vin 'W') debuted in 1992; the cylinder block was slightly changed, a balance shaft was added to remove minor vibrations, and better breathing yielded 200 horsepower (150 kW). Another CPI engine, the LF6, joined in 1996 with the introduction of Vortec cylinder heads, while the LB4 was retired after 1998. In 2002, GM introduced a new multi-point injected LU3 engine, and a LG3 variant appeared soon after. This engine's origins date back to 1955, when the original Chevy small-block V-8 was introduced.

 

All Vortec 4300s use a cast iron block and heads with a 4 in (101.60 mm) bore and 3.48 in (88.39 mm) stroke, both of which are the same as a 350, which gives them a displacement of 262.39 cubic inches (4,299.8 cc). Connecting rods still measure 5.7 in (144.78 mm) although the rod journal diameter is 2.25 in (57.15 mm). 1992 and later cylinder blocks used a different timing cover since these engines used a balance shaft (some 1992 production cylinder blocks for the LB4 with TBI induction used the 'traditional' front timing chain cover from the small block Chevrolet). This change created a situation where most after market timing chain alternatives do not fit. This is true of gear drives and double roller chains. They are OHV engines with two valves per cylinder and are produced in Tonawanda, New York and Romulus, Michigan. Power output of the new LU3/LG3 engines is 180 hp (130 kW) to 200 hp (150 kW) and 245 lb·ft (332 N·m) to 260 lb·ft (353 N·m).

 

4300 applications:

 

• 1985-2005 Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari
• 1991-1993 GMC Syclone/GMC Typhoon (See LB4 below)
• 1988-1995 Chevrolet Blazer/GMC Jimmy
• 2001-2002 Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
• 1988-2003 Chevrolet S-10/GMC S-15
• 1994-2001 Oldsmobile Bravada
• 1985-2001 Chevrolet C/K
• Toyota Forklifts 7000LBS Capacity and up

ETA; Vortec heads are aluminum.... At least on the 350s. & the 4.3L is a 350 block with the back 2 cylinders removed.

 

Sorry for trying to help.... I actually posted to keep anyone else from fucking up Vortec heads, They're my favorite heads to build on a 350 / 383 stroker with. They're cheap, & readily available.

I couldn't care less what you do.

 

I've never built gay engines & darn near anything worth driving that has a 4.6 can take a 350.

 

If it wasn't your first rodeo, you'd know that one heats nuts, not bolts to loosen them, as heat makes shit EXPAND. I know many complete idiots who realize this.

 

Also, when you mix aluminum heads with steel plugs, it DOES oxidize, especially since DC current is passing through them... Hence the creation of anti-seize...

I use it on ALL plugs.

Don'tcha wish YOU had?

 

So yeah, Go ahead, torch the damn thing.... Go for it.

While you're at it, spray bright cheery red steel with aerosol can oil.

 

The thread is called calling ALL mechanics, being as I passed the ASE test with flying colors when I did it with a friend, I'd say I'd qualify....

 

 

 

ETA, Really Good Shit is real. & it IS REALLY GOOD SHIT.

 

edited to change 4.6 to 4.3... I drive a 4.6 & have the # stuck in my head.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Wolverine

[Koliadko 207]

I am NOT having this thread turn to shit because of MY truck. JUST DROP IT, ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!! Thanks for all of your help. But please, just let this go.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I am NOT having this thread turn to shit because of MY truck. JUST DROP IT, ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!! Thanks for all of your help. But please, just let this go.

Sorry Mam.

I have no beef with you.

I just have a short fuse with your guy.

He's lucky you're with him.

 

ETA;

 

If the heads are cast iron, you could try PENATRATING oil, then hitting it with a CO2 fire extinguisher with the bell removed as to concentrate the freezing gas on just on the stuck part to get the CO2 that someone earlier, recommended to contract the steel, rap it hard a few times with a punch (or use a 3/8 socket extension & hammer) Insert the easy out, use whatever 12 point socket fits on said easyout, put in an extention & rap it a few times to get bite & break the new seal of scaling that the heating it caused & do what GOB says with the powered down impact wrench.

 

Power can be reduced with the air pressure regulator that should be on his compressor.

 

I recommended heating earlier because I assumed 6-cyl Vortec heads were Aluminum like the ones I always use on Chev- 350-383s during builds, & heating the plug-bolt inside Aluminum would be problematic, so one would need to re-heat to soften up the Aluminum in order to get the plug-base out.

 

For ANYONE ELSE reading, heat a nut to expand it. Not a bolt. Bolts need to be contracted if anything.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Paulyski

[Koliadko 207]

I have no beef with you either Paulyski. I just don't want this thread to be moved to the fight club because it got crapped all over. This thread can be useful to more than just us. If it's moved, it's useless to everyone.

 

I will be talking to my son here soon and will ask his advice. He lives and breathes working on vehicles. He would probably have any tools we may need to use.

[avatar 4]

Just soak, then heat, then EZout. If your EZ-out isn't twisted yet you haven't been cranking hard enough. I've got a big one that got twisted and bent trying to get an O2 sensor (threaded part left over after breaking). Put some muscle into it man . But watch them knuckles and fingers. Make sure you thank God for letting it be one you can get at easily. Now show it who's boss.

[cscharlie 107]

I use brake fluid when PB Blaster doesn't do it. I apply it at the point of contact with an eye dropper and let it set.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

ETA; Vortec heads are aluminum.... At least on the 350s. & the 4.3L is a 350 block with the back 2 cylinders removed.

4.3 vortech heads that I know of(pre-94) are cast and not aluminum.

 

penetrating oil burns, thats a given. Its a accepted risk. I've caught chrome bars on fire... everything burns when heated up enough.

 

heating metal cherry is better than penetrating oil due to allowing the threads to more maleably pass through, and be removed.

 

heat > penetrating oil alone

 

cast cylender heads will not weld well unless pre heated, but will bond weakly still causing greater issues.. this is why the recomendation of a mig gun, and the caution of sugesting a mig gun.

[Sly 233]

LOL @ YALL! Shannon, sorry I missed this one. Been at the beach all week. The head's are cast iron. I have a set on my workbench ready to run if you need em. If you leave any shavings in the cylinder, it will score them. the easy out is your best bet. If you have to rethread the hole, your going to get metal in there. Better to pull the head then tap it. I know your intake gasket's are probably leaking anyway.....

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I know a little lady who's gonna be real happy with her man....

 

 

Take that you ol rusty chevy!!!!!

 

 

 

Sandi I guess you can tell Chris we aren't as f@%ked as he thought.

 

 

I'd like to take this time to offer my sincere thanks to every person who responded to this thread except one.

 

Most everyone else actually read my first post, and saw it was a Vortec V-6 I was working on, (which as most of us know has cast iron heads).

 

 

 

[IndyArms 10,186]

SO?!?!? How did ya get the bugger out...

 

[termite 463]

OK, spill the beans, how'd you get it out. I don't seen any burn marks from a raging fire, or even scorch marks from a torch.

[tsawy93 19]

OK, spill the beans, how'd you get it out. I don't seen any burn marks from a raging fire, or even scorch marks from a torch.

He must have changed the head out with another RUSTY one...

[IndyArms 10,186]

That or took a picture of the OTHER side of the truck and photoshopped it by MIRROR IMAGING it. LOL!!!

 

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Ahh shit Indy busted me! And I thought I was gonna be able to trick the little lady into gettin real happy! Dang!

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Oh wait....they don't put the starter on that side do they? LOL!

 

After this long I thought surely somebody woulda caught that. That was funny as shit though Mike....

 

 

Here's the real story.... gotta thank one of my fellow Ford nuts for this....

 

 

 

I have also read to heat it cherry hot, then apply candle wax. it will seep into the threads easier than penetrating oil. My 87 Sbuburban was a nightmare to get the original plugs out of last year, but thankfully, none of them broke. When you put the new plugs in - ANTI-SIEZE! I use it on absolutely everything anymore. I had no problems pulling the plugs and most of the fastners on my 67 Coronet. They just keep using cheaper hardware as every year passes. (my burban looked about as rusty as your pics), but just on the engine and outer body. lol. Try the candle wax, what do you have to lose? It's been an old staple for awhile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rather than start doing anything that would possibly get any metal shavings inside a cylinder I didn't want to even think about having to pull that rusty head off....(I can just see it now...getting stuck drilling and trying to extract a snapped off manifold or head bolt or something...)

 

I decided to try the old candle wax trick. (I saw that on another forum as well)

 

Thanks for that awesome tip BronCobraJet! Between that and the PB Blaster I soaked it with for a few days, something damn sure got all the way down in there.

 

I figured as much as fuss as I caused here by starting this help thread, I may as well follow up by taking some more pics as I went to battle with the broken plug base.

 

Here ya go....

 

Where we left off... Oh BTW that little round thing about 5 o'clock is a magnet...

 

The new tool kit...complete with two beers....lol. (yes Max it was only a two beer job this time)

 

Packed it good with candle wax...

 

Heated it up so it would seep down into the threads...

 

Looked like it was working as planned...

 

Put the extractor on the extension and went to it with the impact wrench... air turned down some....after heating it up some more to get the wax in there good...

 

Got the extractor dug in there good...but it still wouldn't budge

 

Threw some more heat to it around the outside, to expand the female threads hopefully...

 

Here's the compressor I was using...my small one I use for small trim jobs to run my nailer...

 

I tried turning it up more because the thing just wasn't budging, and this compressor only goes up to 110 PSI anyway...don't know WTF happened but the adjusting valve came loose and now it's fucked and won't let the air through to the hose fitting...even though it pumps up and shuts off with a full tank...

 

 

 

 

So time for plan B...just get all mid friggin evil on it with brute force....

 

Grabbed the breaker bar and pulled as hard as possible in that limited amount of space...

 

Grunted a couple times and POW! When it broke loose I thought I had busted the end out on my extension...as my arm kissed that rusty ass brake disc...ouch!

 

Ahh who needs an impact wrench! No substitute for American muscle baby!

 

 

WIN!!!

 

 

 

 

Lesson learned....next time I get a tap stuck and it feels like it's gonna snap if I torque on it again, I might just try melting some wax down in there first.

 

 

 

[yakdung 2,926]

Truly impressed. Glad you got that bastard.

 

Yakdung

[waltham_41 52]

Glad to see you got it out.... I had an old rust bucket 93 Chevy pickup that had been up north, could see through the floorboards, you get the idea.

 

I was thinking of you snap snap snap trying to get the exhaust manifolds and everything took off and all of the bolt heads breaking off on you like that POS truck of mine did until I literally GAVE it away for scrap.

 

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

 

 

I'd like to take this time to offer my sincere thanks to every person who responded to this thread except one.

 

Most everyone else actually read my first post, and saw it was a Vortec V-6 I was working on, (which as most of us know has cast iron heads).

Piss of Jimbo...

 

You can't even change sparkplugs right & you consider it a steller accomplishment to remove a hollow section of bolt with an EASY out after 2 days, when you shouldn't have broken it in the first place...

 

Not to mention, you were using Marvel's as penetrating oil at first.

 

I'd LOVE to see YOU build an entire engine & transmission....

Let alone build an auto trans or chase shorts therein to the PCM, test sensors & diagnose REAL problems.

Know how to rebuild & shim diffs? Ever fabbed suspension parts?

 

When's the last time you've shortened axles & tubes to make a beefier rear axle/diff fit on a rig?

 

Yeah... Uh-huh.

 

Maybe you should listen to your lady & STFU.

 

 

 

Threw some more heat to it around the outside, to expand the female threads hopefully...

 

BTW...

Looks like one part did sink in

 

Yeah... Heat leads to expansion.

 

Betcha used anti-seize this time too.

 

[/response]

(till you start me back up)

Edited September 20, 2010 by Paulyski