SaigaKen 338 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 In the midst of the dick waving contest and the related posts in this thread specifically referring to collecting data somehow, whether it is tapping the gas block to measure gas pressure or an accelerometer of some sort, I started to wonder what some of these companies are doing to design/test/benchmark their products to protect themselves legally. I know we are dealing with a basic firearm in the first place but when folks start "creating" critical components and mass marketing them to S12 owners, is there any entity that regulates the manufacture of certain parts to ensure they are safe? As someone referred to these gas plugs as trinkets, I disagree. A trinket may be a flashlight holder, pistol grip, etc. Something like an Auto Plug is a critical component and if it does over gas a gun, bad things start to happen which could lead to a catastrophic failure of the weapon with prolonged use and lead to bodily injury. Same goes for a regular gas plug if set wrong. If I set a Gunfixer, MD, or even a stock plug wrong, shoot it a lot to where something breaks and I end up with a gas piston through the dust cover and into my face or something, I fucked up. If I trust a product like an Auto Plug to "think" for me and the same happens, see you guys in court, hope you have your shit together. See what I am getting at? Are you guys making this stuff holding any credentials to do so? Not accusing Nate, Mike, or Cliff of simply tinkering and building shit in the garage but hell, we got another Joe on here trying to build a rifle to fire aircraft ammo. We know who I am talking about, hope you are above average with your math skills bro. What you are designing may kill you and others in your intitial testing unless you fire the bitch remotely from a bunker. I am not kidding either as I do not think you posess any degrees in Engineering or Metalurgy which might be helpful in such an endeavor as does with manufacturing critical firearm parts. Now, back to my Rotary Wing Flying Jeep project. Good common sense tends to bring about the reality of it all. Thanks for the insight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PYRO 44 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 If I trust a product like an Auto Plug to "think" for me and the same happens, see you guys in court, hope you have your shit together. See what I am getting at? Seeing that the auto plug has an adjustable pressure valve and most of us that are using it, have changed the adjustment so it works with the range of ammo we use and the way our personal guns are modified, I don't think we would have a court case if something went wrong because of it. And the fact that most of these guns need to be modified to even work dependably, I think we are pretty much taking responsibility for ourself's for whatever happens. But I'm no lawyer,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Yeah, explain to the jury how you have already greatly modified the gun from its "as shipped" configuration. It doesnt matter that we are doing our best to make it more like the way it comes out of the factory for other countries. Its still a modified, custom firearm. Unless of course your gun is still in the factory sporter configuration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Even as shipped, completely unmodified, if you shoot the hell out of magnum buck on the light load setting: Who are you going to sue if the bolt carrier breaks through the the dust cover into your face? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Even as shipped, completely unmodified, if you shoot the hell out of magnum buck on the light load setting: Who are you going to sue if the bolt carrier breaks through the the dust cover into your face? It'd be like suing a gun manufacturer when you have one of your reloads blow up in your face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) Sure a lawsuit might be a stretch but what are these part manufacturers doing to back their products? I would imagine some technical data, engineering mumbo jumbo, and some comprehensive test data would be needed for a good defense. Also, I wondered if there is anyone regulating this stuff? Do certain parts have a minimum hardness requirement for the steel used? Nothing is impossible BTW as far as lawsuits go. I know someone who sued Jeep because they were paralyzed in a Jeep rollover. I respect all three of these guys and have purchased parts from all of them. I just asked the question as everything else in this damned country is so regulated and monitored. Edited September 25, 2010 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) Sure a lawsuit might be a stretch but what are these part manufacturers doing to back their products? I would imagine some technical data, engineering mumbo jumbo, and some comprehensive test data would be needed for a good defense. Also, I wondered if there is anyone regulating this stuff? Do certain parts have a minimum hardness requirement for the steel used? The part is an accessory, and I doubt that part by its self is capable of blowing off and killing you. If the gun gets over gassed and blows the bolt into your face, I think the case would be thrown out in court because it's a modified weapon with an ADJUSTABLE part. I'm not calling you wrong or anything, I'm speaking out of ignorance, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Edited September 25, 2010 by Mephis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) Sure a lawsuit might be a stretch but what are these part manufacturers doing to back their products? I would imagine some technical data, engineering mumbo jumbo, and some comprehensive test data would be needed for a good defense. Also, I wondered if there is anyone regulating this stuff? Do certain parts have a minimum hardness requirement for the steel used? The part is an accessory, and I doubt that part by its self is capable of blowing off and killing you. If the gun gets over gassed and blows the bolt into your face, I think the case would be thrown out in court because it's a modified weapon with an ADJUSTABLE part. I'm not calling you wrong or anything, I'm speaking out of ignorance, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I hear you but that "accessory" can cause the weapon to destroy itself. I'm just curious if there is anyone regulating the manufacture of gun parts. Like how DOT regulates and approves components for cars and trucks. Edited September 25, 2010 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 fire arm related accidents happen all the time. i seriously doubt anything would hold water in a courtroom. but im no lawyer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Accidents or catastophic failure of the firearm due to shitty ammo or parts? Big difference! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chowderhead72 13 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Why is it that in this country so few can take resposibilty for their own stupidity? Most of us on this site have modified firearms many of which have never been touched by a gunsmith. We are all accepting the inherent risk that comes with amateur gunsmithing. If you modify your trigger and it goes full auto out of control and you get caught do you sue tapco? maybe tromix? It's your fault! You modified a gun, you screwed up, pay the price. Tac-47 is not responsible for your rear trunion; you are. Accept the risk of owning modified shit and move on. If we can set an example that the legal system should be used for legal issue and not meaningless tort merely to make stupid people rich and irresponsible for their actions maybe we can keep our freedoms. Keep up the legal system abuse and everything will become regulated... (California for example). Step one make lawyers unpaid interns for the first ten years after law school and the world would be a better place... Don't get me started on lobbiests. Rant complete. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim2shu 48 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Bottom Line! If you are not a big boy, PUT THE SAIGA DOWN 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Why is it that in this country so few can take resposibilty for their own stupidity? Most of us on this site have modified firearms many of which have never been touched by a gunsmith. We are all accepting the inherent risk that comes with amateur gunsmithing. If you modify your trigger and it goes full auto out of control and you get caught do you sue tapco? maybe tromix? It's your fault! You modified a gun, you screwed up, pay the price. Tac-47 is not responsible for your rear trunion; you are. Accept the risk of owning modified shit and move on. If we can set an example that the legal system should be used for legal issue and not meaningless tort merely to make stupid people rich and irresponsible for their actions maybe we can keep our freedoms. Keep up the legal system abuse and everything will become regulated... (California for example). Step one make lawyers unpaid interns for the first ten years after law school and the world would be a better place... Don't get me started on lobbiests. Rant complete. I agree, suing Tac47 for a problem with your gun that arose after you installed an adjustable automatic gas plug would be like me suing Edelbrock because their carburetor made my engine run lean and detonate to the point of burning holes in the pistons... If you get an auto plug from Tac47 and it has a problem, call Tac47, I'm sure they'll make it right, and if they don't, post up about it... Asking for MORE regulation from the government in the gun industry will do no one any good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) Guys, I wasn't asking for more Gov't regulation on firearms and parts. Just simply asking if such was regulated like Motor Vehicle shit is regulated by DOT and if the manufacturers here take precautions to avoid a lawsuit. If it were me, I'd tap a gas block with a pressure gauge and record extensive data with my product vs the factory part using various loads. (Edited to add: Hopefully the pressure comparisons are not to drastically different between the low and high settings on those two parts). I agree using a modified weapon is shitty evidence in court as well. Let's say it's a gas piston instead then. Is there any standard for the metal hardness specified by the Gov't or can anyone make them out of anything? Sorry to hijack the thread BTW. Edited September 27, 2010 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The way the plug works, unless it has a chronic failure and fails to ever open, I don't see how it could overgas the gun to the point of making it blow up in your face... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The way the plug works, unless it has a chronic failure and fails to ever open, I don't see how it could overgas the gun to the point of making it blow up in your face... Ah, ah, ah, it COULD come apart after the bolt beat the shit out of the trunnion so much that it shatters, but the gun would be very noticeable in that state and it would take a retard of astronomical proportions to fire that weapon... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hefedehefe 0 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Where do I get one for $20 shipped? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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