kmoore 3 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) Some question in the 12ga section got me thinking about 922r compliance. I have an older EAA import without factory threads, and am confident that I'm on safe ground. In fact, I haven't checked into this region of the forum for some (read years) time. In the "old days" I didn't see threaded bbls listed as muzzle devices on this forum, and I'm wondering how they came to be. First off, I think 922r discussions get a little confusing when we don't differentiate between a shotgun's configuration (non sporting vs sporting) and the actual 922r parts compliance. For instance, I could put 20 parts (well, it's actually impossible, but for the sake of argument) on my Saiga import, and as long as the shotgun is considered to be in sporting configuration I'd be legal.... Ok, I'll try not to drift my own thread! Also, this thread pertains only to shotguns with factory threaded barrels. Sporting Configuration So, I see the threaded bbl as having some possible impact on the sporting configuration, but it isn't likely a primary concern. That is, as long as you just keep a bbl nut or choke on the threaded bbl, these don't change the status of an otherwise sporting configured gun. Less certain would be the actual attachment of a device. Can the configuration be changed from sporting to nonsporting by adding?: a. a flash hider b. a muzzle brake If so, this would dictate that parts count must be complied with. If the either/both would be considered to make the gun unsporting, then I'd assume that the shotgun is still sporting until a device is actually installed. Or, possibly if a muzzle device was owned but not installed (so called constructive intent)? Parts Compliance Assume the shotgun is "non sporting". Then, to be compliant no more than 10 of it's parts can be foreign. I'm wondering if their is documentation to count a threaded bbl as a muzzle attachment? Seems pretty cautious? Shouldn't it require actual installation of a muzzle device, or if constructive intent applies here, then the possession of a muzzle device. And what is a muzzle device? I could see where chokes don't change sporting status, but could be considered a device? Same deal with muzzle brakes. Flash suppressors are almost certainly muzzle devices (my opinion). Seems like the collective wisdom on this board feels the threaded bbl = muzzle device ... to me, that's a stretch. I guess I'm wondering where it came from. List of ways change status from sporting to non sporting This isn't as important to this thread, but my understanding is there are several ways a shotgun is considered to become "non sporting" ... I don't have documentation for these, I've just read and accept them. a. Magazine holding >5 round is inserted b. Magazine holding >5 rounds is owned, and no other compliant shotgun is owned (constructive intent) c. Pistol grip is attached. (are there no shotguns imported with pistol grips? .. I haven't kept up on the benelli shotguns) d. Thumbhole stock is attached (I think ATF initially considered thumbholes to be ok, but later considered them to be another form of a pistol grip. e. muzzle attachment (see above, I'm certainly not sure on this one) f. folding stock (?) g. collapsable stock (?) This thread is for entertainment purposes only. No Saiga's were killed in the production of this thread. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Consult a physician before engaging brain. May cause uncontrolled fits of shooting. If your time to the range diminishes, discontinue use of the forum immediately, and consult a 2a activist. Shooting has been known to cause $$ to disappear. This thread should not be construed as an offer of employment. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv. Do not try any of this at home. Edited September 24, 2010 by kmoore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 check your importation regulations for the shotgun specifics. threaded shotgun muzzles are not defined. How many shotguns even have a threaded muzzle other than saigas, anyhow? not a lot... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 You're confusing import laws with 922r. "Threaded barrels" are one of the evil features that can prohibit a firearm from importation (it only takes two evil features off of a list). If a firearm is prohibited from importation, it must be 922r compliant here in the USA. Muzzle threads are "evil features" according to some state's AWBs, as are flash hiders (but not muzzle brakes). In the free states, if your firestick is 922r compliant, naked threads aren't counting for anything. It's when you put something on them that the counting starts. Any muzzle device must count towards your 922r compliance. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vermiform 26 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Does the muzzle nut (thread protector) count as a foreign part? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 Does the muzzle nut (thread protector) count as a foreign part? Now that is the question folks have been debating for years. 50% "Yes" - it screws on to the muzzle. 50% "No" - it doesn't perform any modification of the escaping gases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vermiform 26 Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 Just converted my first S12 today and started wondering if that Muzzle Nut counts against me in 922R. To be safe I could wrap black electrical tape around the end to protect the threads, but now I'm going to have to find some American Made Electrical Tape . Uncle BATFuck once again complicates my life...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted September 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 (edited) You're confusing import laws with 922r. "Threaded barrels" are one of the evil features that can prohibit a firearm from importation (it only takes two evil features off of a list). If a firearm is prohibited from importation, it must be 922r compliant here in the USA. Thanks nalioth... this will help to clarify this my question. Do you have the list of features that would prohibit importation of shotguns? All I've found is 925d3 where the sporting purpose language is (included below for reference) ... but don't have a list of what might make a firearm non-sporting (and therefor unimportable and subject to 922r should alterations be made to a sporting version.) (d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition— skipping part 1 and 2 (3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; In the free states, if your firestick is 922r compliant, naked threads aren't counting for anything. It's when you put something on them that the counting starts. Any muzzle device must count towards your 922r compliance. Any clarification on what a muzzle device is. Sounds like (for 922r compliance) that ridding yourself of all foreign made "devices" ... even a thread protector ... would prevent this from adding to foreign parts count even if the threaded bbl remains. Just converted my first S12 today and started wondering if that Muzzle Nut counts against me in 922R. To be safe I could wrap black electrical tape around the end to protect the threads, but now I'm going to have to find some American Made Electrical Tape . Uncle BATF once again complicates my life...... I LOVE this idea, but I think you'd either need to destroy/remove any muzzle devices from your possession (or there's possible constructive intent) or remove the threads/switch to internal threads. Edited September 26, 2010 by kmoore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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