Nickgill32 0 Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I am new to the forum and really need some help, I own a Saiga 12 and a Saiga .223, I would like to start the mod process however, The first time under the knife is spooky to say the least. Before I start cutting my gun up I want to be sure its the best thing to do. I have had issues with some of the rounds fouling up real bad. The bullet gets pushed back inside the casing ( I do not have a bullet feed installed ), I have read this happening to others as well without the bullet feed. Would the AR adapter fix my problem without the feed or would both be recommended. What are the down sides to cutting into my stock magwell? With the AR mag adapter can I still use my promag that gives me the trouble? thanks for any info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I have both the AR magwell and have had the bullet guide. Currently I am using the AR magwell not for the sake of bullet feed issues but for the sake of being able to use AR mags. The two are completely different solutions to your bullet feed problems. Yes the AR mag will eliminate bullet feed issues simply by nature of its design and application. Once you "MOD" your receiver to fit the AR mag and adapter, the AR mag will be positioned high enough within your receiver such the bullet will relatively feed in straight. It is considerable work and if you are not comfortable with that or have a gunsmith available then you should not try it. The other is to have the bullet guide mounted on the front trunion. Its really quite easy. All you need is a hand drill, and a tap handle. I purchased a bullet guide kit from Dinzag Arms. The kit includes a carbide drill and a tap and off course the bullet guide. You'll need to determine if you trunion is flat or round. In my case the trunion was round. However, for you to use the bullet guide, you must mod the mags. The mags have a plastic tab on the front mag body that acts as a bullet guide. This tab interferes with the installed bullet guide on your trunion. Take a hobby knife and cut off the tab, but once this is done the mags can only be used with a bullet guide. In either case, both those mods fed well. However, its an either or situation between the two because the bullet guide will not work with the AR mags and the modded Pro-mags will not without the bullet guide. I went with the AR mag adapter because I want to use AR mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notofnow 5 Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 out of curiosity, which ar adapter did you use and where can you get one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 out of curiosity, which ar adapter did you use and where can you get one? I personally used the Renegadebuck AR/Saiga .223 adapter. I chose that one because it appeared to be less grinding required and didn't alter the weapon as much. I have heard the MSA model has changed, so it's possible that that one also is easy to use. But I've dealt with Renegadebuck personally on getting his adapter, and I felt more comfortable with him, his product, and what I needed to do to my rifle. I've been using it for about 6 months, and it's been flawless. I understand that he has just about finished up another batch of adapters, and is ready to ship them out. Now, FWIW; I am NOT personally involved with Renegadebuck or the sale of his adapters. I've never even met him personally. I have no dog in this fight and gain nothing, either way. But when I first looked into getting an AR adapter, his just seemed better all around for me. Mainly on what needed to be done to the gun. Now I don't believe that Renegadebuck really frequents this forum. (Obviously, this isn't the only saiga forum in the world). You can google his name or PM me for contact information. But let me also reiterate, the MSA adapter and company have gone through a lot of changes over the last year. It would behoove you to contact BOTH individuals, ask them any questions you have, compare installation procedures, and decide which of the 2 you prefer to buy an adapter from. As for the actual adapter, I've only owned/used the Renegadebuck adapter. It has worked perfectly. I honestly can't say if I've ever had a misfeed because of the adapter. I had a misfeed that was related to individual magazines. (That's part of any gun). Of 15 AR magazines, 2-3 had feeding issues. But it was magazine related. When I replaced the followers, they fed perfectly. Just like the other 12. Again, I can vouch for the Renegadebuck adapter, but you need to contact MSA and Renegadebuck directly and ask them your questions and concerns. That's the best advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lashlarue 1 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 More than likely the Promag guide broke off within the first couple of shots.If you dont want to go to all the trouble, buy a Surefire,they work, fit snug and cost a bit more.Use the time it takes to reload the mag to allow the barrel to cool off.As far as I know we are not yet at war!You could buy 3 Surefires for the cost of the adapter... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 More than likely the Promag guide broke off within the first couple of shots.If you dont want to go to all the trouble, buy a Surefire,they work, fit snug and cost a bit more.Use the time it takes to reload the mag to allow the barrel to cool off.As far as I know we are not yet at war!You could buy 3 Surefires for the cost of the adapter... If you know how to file down the bullet guide tab properly on the Pro-mag, then the tabs work great and they don't break off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nickgill32 0 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I would like to thank you for the replies and help. I am comfortable working and modifying my guns, its a hobby I enjoy. I bought a 30 round pro mag when I bought my .223. I trimmed the mag to fit, after reading this fourm I looked and, YES I SHAVED OFF THE FEED RAMP. I really like the look and function of the AR adapter, I bought the .223 instead of the .308 dude to the surplus of ammo and the future of knowing as long as there is a military there will be 5.56 ammo. Are the AR mags well built and work reliably? I read the Galil mags will fit with minimal trimming, that correct? Would that be a wise direction to take? Or is the AR adapter the best outcome for the money? Thanks for all the help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Afrikaner 2 Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) Galil mags work just fine. They are tough as nails. I didn't have to trim the mags to work - work needs to be done to the magwell though. Ar mags work fine as well and really cheap at the moment. I would suggest buying about 10 p-mags if you go this route...use cheapo aluminum mags for range and training and keep the p-mags for serious stuff. P-mags are about as reliable as any AK mag I've ever used - quite tough too - but it's still not steel. I've used both methods and I'm comfortable with either... Edited October 14, 2010 by Verlore Boer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sasquatchvnv 2 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Nevermind... MSA is having GPal problems, and is a little slow on filling orders or responding to status requests. Thanks for the Renegadebuck tip - I'll give him a shot.. Edited October 15, 2010 by sasquatchvnv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Sasquatch did you pay with Gpal when you ordered by chance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sasquatchvnv 2 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Sasquatch did you pay with Gpal when you ordered by chance? Nevermind. Edited October 15, 2010 by sasquatchvnv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 It takes money to MFG and ship parts. If MSA doesn't have any money, then MSA cannot make and ship parts. Gpal has your money, not MSA. He is doing his best right now to get people their parts, and had to take a second job to fund it out of his pocket, since Gpal stole your money. You WILL get your adapter. Just try to be patient. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sasquatchvnv 2 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) It takes money to MFG and ship parts. If MSA doesn't have any money, then MSA cannot make and ship parts. Gpal has your money, not MSA. He is doing his best right now to get people their parts, and had to take a second job to fund it out of his pocket, since Gpal stole your money. You WILL get your adapter. Just try to be patient. Nevermind Edited October 15, 2010 by sasquatchvnv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I have exchanged PMs with Sasquatch and we are working on a solution to the order. From now on I'm asking that if anyone has an outstanding MSA order the please contact me via PM and I will help you get your order sorted out. MSA is not posting here or able to answer any PMs from anyone. This is why nobody has heard from him. I talk to him several times a week however and I'm trying to help him get caught back up again. Thanks for your patience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nickgill32 0 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I ordered my Renegade AR mag adapter can't wait to get it. Christcorp, I was wondering how much of your turn union did you need to remove for proper fitting? If any at all? I have a few AR mags and read threw the Install instructions, I took heed to the post on GUNCO and haven't done any mod's yet. Any Info on your install would be cool. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 I ordered my Renegade AR mag adapter can't wait to get it. Christcorp, I was wondering how much of your turn union did you need to remove for proper fitting? If any at all? I have a few AR mags and read threw the Install instructions, I took heed to the post on GUNCO and haven't done any mod's yet. Any Info on your install would be cool. Thanks Been gone a few days, but I noticed on the gunco forum that you already have your adapter installed and ready to go. So I obviously don't need to tell you how it's done. Glad it all worked out. And as you saw first hand, Renegadebuck is fantastic to do business with. His adapter is quality made and a reasonable price. Plus, he's there if you need him with any questions or concerns. Glad it worked out for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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