MikeMacCham 8 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) Hey guys, I just joined here. I have a Saiga 7.62 and love it. I'm looking for something that is a little more accurate at farther distances, and not to expensive. I was looking at AR's and AK74's (5.56 and 5.45) and just wondering how accurate are the Saiga at 500 yards? I know mines pretty good at 200. How would you compare the Saigas to the 74's and AR as far as accuracy (with 5.45 and 5.56), I don't need a sub moa just want to be able to hit someone way out there. Which round would you go with? The currently cheap 5.45 corrosive or the 5.56, 223? Thanks! Edited October 5, 2010 by MikeMacCham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) someone [toshbar] on here was shooting 500 yards with the 545x39 Saiga into a 12" wide cardboard.. I get sub-5" groups at 200 yards with my 545x39 Saiga.. seems VERY FLAT... the DROP is comparable to the 223 beyond 300+ yards.. you figure 545x39 Saiga $330-370 when you can get them.. $350 for the 223 version.. got mine (545x39 Saiga) in Fed 2010 for $329... cheapest AR now is like $700.. toss up.... Edited October 6, 2010 by YWHIC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMacCham 8 Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 So its done then...i'm buying another Saiga. now I just gotta figure out 5.45, (Cheap now ) 223 or 556 ( gonna have it down the road) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I think 5.45 is a cool and inexpensive flat-shooting little round. The new ammo seems to wound better based on people's own tests too. I was going to get a .223 and reload but then found out the Saiga will eat your brass cases and then you can't reload. Then the math says you would have to shoot about 6000 rds before the loading equiptment pays for itself, not to mention the cost of new ammo by itself anyway. I basically say 'eff the .223 and get a 5.45 and then later, when the surplus is dried up, sell the gun to someone else and then get a .223 maybe. Maybe we'll get lucky and get the later, improved Russian surplus instead of 7n6 also! Lol. Now you just have to wait until the 5.45 imports again (this month?) and hope it isn't marked up to $450 like it probably will be Quote Link to post Share on other sites
L5K 162 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 5.45 hands down. Even the military is unimpressed by the 5.56 out of a 16" barrel. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 How would you compare the Saigas to the 74's You are aware that the 5.45x39 Saiga is an AK74 in politician's sheep's clothing, right? The same barrels and many other parts of the military assembly line are used. To be blunt: They're going to function (almost¹) identically and be as accurate, as they're virtually the same gun. [1] No fun switch 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMacCham 8 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I am now..tehe...is it cheaper to just buy the SGL already converted or do you guys have a good place for conversion parts? (my 7.62 conversion cost more than a SGL) So I was wondering, I have a 7.62 and want to cut 3" off the barrel, has anyone ever done it? Do you lose accuracy? and does the bullet still have enough spin (not sure what the spin ratio is on a 7.62 barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 less than 16"=JAIL.. $92 for parts from Carolina Shooters Supply. Al Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMacCham 8 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) do they come in 2 different barrel lengths? sure looks like it on the saiga web site. and i'm not going under 16" Edited October 6, 2010 by MikeMacCham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 MikeM... The 7.62x39/223/308 comes in 16 and 21" variant (not sure on the 5.45x39).. you did not say which 7.62 version you had already. I was stating less than 16" = JAIL without proper paperwork and/or such.. The $92 +/- was for basic conversion parts from CSS. You can also start a NEW thread in the 762x ?? section and put up all your questions.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMacCham 8 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 oh, ok sorry. Ya, I saw on the site that they come in 2 different lengths, wonder if the twist ratio is different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) (my 7.62 conversion cost more than a SGL) WHAT?! WTF did you put on that? A diamond muzzle brake? Lol. Or did you pay someone to do it? Then I could see. I suppose putting top-dollar parts on a conversion would also put it up there with an SGL, but geez... LOL. Edited October 7, 2010 by Kalashniklown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nutical 16 Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 (my 7.62 conversion cost more than a SGL) WHAT?! WTF did you put on that? A diamond muzzle brake? Lol. Or did you pay someone to do it? Then I could see. I suppose putting top-dollar parts on a conversion would also put it up there with an SGL, but geez... LOL. That is not far fetch as you might think. Here is the estimate with mostly used parts: Rifle 350 stock set 100 brake 30 FSB 55 gas block 25 HG retainer 15 gas tube 18 cleaning rod 6 G2+nuts+retainer 55 That is not including shipping for the parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 5.45 FTW. I can do 14" groups with mine at 500 yards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 @ Toshbar, You using optics or Irons? (How'd you mount your optics if you used any?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 @ Toshbar, You using optics or Irons? (How'd you mount your optics if you used any?) Tasco Pronghorn 3-9x40 with the side mount. I got the mount and scope with rings from Classic Arms for $65 or so. Very cost effective for shooting that far. I've shot out to 300 yards with the irons, and while the graduation for elevation is calibrated right, groups with irons are 3-4 times bigger than with the scope at the same range. I toyed with the idea of getting some peep sights for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
essohbe 47 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Cool man. My eyes are so bad I probably couldn't see the target @ 300yds w/out a scope, lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Cool man. My eyes are so bad I probably couldn't see the target @ 300yds w/out a scope, lol. I shoot 500 with irons on my Garand, but that is freakin far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Welcome to the forum, Mike. To answer your original question about accuracy, I would have to give THAT to the AR. Now, affordability, durability and reliability I'd have to give to the AK. That's not to say a decent manufactured AR won't serve you well, but they're more sensitive to not being cleaned as often. I own both and I'm happy with them. If I'm looking to shoot tighter groups, I'll usually grab the AR and use Sierra ammo. Most of the time though, for the distances I'm shooting (200 yards and under), the AK does fine by me. As for the 223 vs 5.45, I prefer the 5.45 personally. The 223 is often more accurate and it's a flatter shooting round that costs less. You CAN find match grade 223 though, while the 5.45 tends to be limited to surplus stuff. I suspect if someoner reloaded their own rounds, they could get some better accuracy, but the DI gas system of the AR still tends to be more accurate than the piston driven AKs. I haven't seen many 5.45 ARs though. It all depends on what you want your rifle to do. Hope this helps Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Oh, and update to the group size above: Last weekend i shot a 7 inch group with my 5.45 saiga at 500 yards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wnycollector 4 Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 My saiga will a put a full thirty round mag on a 5.5" shoot-n-see target at 120 yards with bulgarian 7n6. This AM I put 150 rounds downrange w/ only 3 shots not on the 5.5" target. I have a centerpoint 3-9x32 scope mounted on a MTK-83 side mount. Both of my AR's (14.5" BCM middy and 20" govt profile Del-Ton) will out shoot the saiga with Black Hills Match HP's, but with Brown & Silver Bear ammo...they are in the same ball park. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMacCham 8 Posted November 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 I ended up scoring a TGI Bulgarian AK74 from a brother on here for $475, then buying 2 spam cans for $290 shipped....I'm going to take all the cool stuff off my 7.62 AK and put on the stock stuff from the 74, and sell it. I looked at getting a Saiga 5.45 out here in CA (but it would have cost more and I dont even know if it has a chrome lined barrel). I also looked at getting a RRA lower with a S/W upper in 5.45, But when it came down to it the balistics pic of 7n6 bullet had me sold and why shoot russian ammo out of a American gun after reading about all the problems that could occur. The AR or AK are probably going to out preform me at 500 yards and most likely I'll just be shooting cardboard bad guys (i'd say hoji's but thats not PC) so why not go cheap and fun, at least that whay when my wife rips my ass it will be over the 55 pound box of over 2000+ rounds rather than all the little boxes of recoil spring and stuff thatI would end up buying for the AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 For 500yds i'd go with the 308 saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toshbar 36 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 For 500yds i'd go with the 308 saiga. Depends on what you want to do at 500 yards. Does the shooter want to punch holes in paper, or something warm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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