Romanian WASR 10/63 vs. SGL-21

[jcmacconnell 25]

Hey Gents,

 

Just as a background. I have both a WASR 10/63 (My first AK purchase....probably wouldn't have gotten it if I know what I know now) and an Arsenal SGL 21. I am torn between setting up which one as my designated GO TO gun. Go to gun meaning, knowing what I know now, I would get an Ultimak Gas Tube Rail to mount my micro red dot in order to cowitness with my irons. I would also like a folding stock capability. My WASR has a slightly canted front sight but nothing really all that bad. It shoots fine and I have never had a jam in the 800 rounds or so I have shot through it. It is currently set up with an ACE Stock and a UTG Quad Rail (again I wouldn't have gotten this if I know what I know now).

 

My SGL 21 is currently stock with a side scope mount with a variable 2.5-7 power scope on it which I can shoot 1-1.5 MOA with quality Federal Ammo. I am really happy with this however after reading Gabe Suarez's article on getting into the AK Game regarding not going cheap with your GO TO AK I am doubting using my WASR for what I am wanting.

 

I am thinking of ditching the scope on my SGL 21 and putting the ultimak with my Burris TRS-25 on it. Then perhaps putting a folder on it. The reason I am torn is because my WASR is already all "modded" out with the tang cut off, TAPCO G2, Etc.

 

I am just wondering if in the end the SGL would be a better platform for a No Shit go to gun.

 

Thanks Guys

 

Jason

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

SGL-21, Arsenal puts out a excellent product... The WASR is second rate compared to it.

[paprotective 362]

I had a 4x32 scope on my 762x39 Saiga for abit.. it was good for me....

 

then I got the Bushnell Trophy Red Dot (6moa) and was HAPPY I could just point and shoot out to 200 yards and nail the 8" target at will almost..

 

I now run the Bushnell Trophy Red Dot (with 3MOA, 65/3, cross hair, 10MOA) and am even more stoked.

 

I see my groups going DOWN at 200 yards to hopefully sub-6" consistently..

 

It has just wood on it and its my new MBR.. (aka go-to rifle)..

 

A rilfe with Irons and Red Dot is more 'go-to' than one with a scope by itself..

 

were talking Zombies and mass hysteria.. you want to just shoot and move..

 

 

 

 

My 0.02 on this..

 

 

Al

[mikegraffam 11]

 

It has just wood on it and its my new MBR.. (aka go-to rifle)..

 

A rilfe with Irons and Red Dot is more 'go-to' than one with a scope by itself..

 

were talking Zombies and mass hysteria.. you want to just shoot and move..

 

 

 

 

My 0.02 on this..

 

 

Al

 

 

If the choices are red dot or a 4x32, I agree - red dot is more all-purpose. But I like to use a 1-4x scope with an illuminated reticle. Millet and Leatherwood both have good ones in the $300 range.

 

For just a bit more weight, you can pull the scope back to 1x and get many of the benefits of a red dot, and you can also take it out to 4x when called for.. but I also run a Springfield SOCOM-16.. so, its good out to 350 or so yds. My eyes need 4x at that range.

[t3mac21 1]

I have a wasr10/63 that I love but I'd setup the SGL

 

 

Unless of course you shoot the WASR better, are more comfortable with it, or if the SGL jams a lot or something.

[BrutalGardener 205]

I don't get it... Between a WASR and a professionally converted Legion Saiga (SGL21), there is ZERO doubt as to which is a better gun. The only advantage a WASR commands is that in a TEOTWAWKI situation, you'll be slightly more likely to come upon spare parts (finding AKM parts vs AK100 parts). Then again, counting on finding the stuff you need in that kind of situation is ill advised.

[VaiFanatic90 360]

To be honest, I'd say both. You can never have enough AKs. I love my WASR-10 as much as my Saiga, but I do want an SGL-21, just haven't seen any locally, and the FFL transfer fees here are ridiculous (can someone say $50?). Then again, I just like having lots of guns that I can tinker around on, smooth the trigger pull, shorten the barrel, polish the carrier, etc.

[VladTepes 160]

I think that a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 is a poor choice as a primary SHTF rifle.. sure its fine in a Katrina type situation if you plan to hunker down and shoot from your safe which is filled with ammo..

 

consider lawlessness to the level of not being able to stay where you are..

now consider road congestion to the point of no moving traffic...

you are now going to have to walk it..

how much 7.62x39 can you carry? how many magazines?

 

I love my Saiga and will never leave it behind.. but I have long guns chambered in domestically produced ammo for the unlikely long term SHTF lack of organized society type situation.. AR ammunition and magazines will be abundant... Russian military stuff? while you may find it.. will be far less abundant.. I think that it is valuable to choose a weapon for that scenario based on what you are most likely to find...

[t3mac21 1]

I think that a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 is a poor choice as a primary SHTF rifle.. sure its fine in a Katrina type situation if you plan to hunker down and shoot from your safe which is filled with ammo..

 

consider lawlessness to the level of not being able to stay where you are..

now consider road congestion to the point of no moving traffic...

you are now going to have to walk it..

how much 7.62x39 can you carry? how many magazines?

 

I love my Saiga and will never leave it behind.. but I have long guns chambered in domestically produced ammo for the unlikely long term SHTF lack of organized society type situation.. AR ammunition and magazines will be abundant... Russian military stuff? while you may find it.. will be far less abundant.. I think that it is valuable to choose a weapon for that scenario based on what you are most likely to find...

 

 

This whole "available" because that is what our police and military shit is nonsense. What do you think will happen? You think you'll walk over to the police station or army FOB and they'll just hand you ammo? The ammo that will be available will be the ammo that you have.

 

7.62x39 is domestically produced by all major manufacturers and can be found in just about any major big box store or small gun shop. It's about as common a caliber as you can find aside from something like .22lr or .30-30 and 12 gauge.

 

 

Don't buy your rifle with only some fantasy SHTF scenario in mind though. If that ever happened it'll be whats between your ears that helps you survive, not your basement full of thousands of pounds of gear and ammo that you cannot take with you.

[VladTepes 160]

I think that a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 is a poor choice as a primary SHTF rifle.. sure its fine in a Katrina type situation if you plan to hunker down and shoot from your safe which is filled with ammo..

 

consider lawlessness to the level of not being able to stay where you are..

now consider road congestion to the point of no moving traffic...

you are now going to have to walk it..

how much 7.62x39 can you carry? how many magazines?

 

I love my Saiga and will never leave it behind.. but I have long guns chambered in domestically produced ammo for the unlikely long term SHTF lack of organized society type situation.. AR ammunition and magazines will be abundant... Russian military stuff? while you may find it.. will be far less abundant.. I think that it is valuable to choose a weapon for that scenario based on what you are most likely to find...

 

 

This whole "available" because that is what our police and military shit is nonsense. What do you think will happen? You think you'll walk over to the police station or army FOB and they'll just hand you ammo? The ammo that will be available will be the ammo that you have.

 

7.62x39 is domestically produced by all major manufacturers and can be found in just about any major big box store or small gun shop. It's about as common a caliber as you can find aside from something like .22lr or .30-30 and 12 gauge.

 

 

Don't buy your rifle with only some fantasy SHTF scenario in mind though. If that ever happened it'll be whats between your ears that helps you survive, not your basement full of thousands of pounds of gear and ammo that you cannot take with you.

 

I responded to the question in the exact context that it was asked.. Do I believe the world will slip into a state of chaos.. one in which we are roaming endlessly through the nation like a B title zombie flick.. no.. probably not.. but in the event that society ends as we know it.. and something like that were to happen.. YES.. I believe it is fair more likely to find 5.56/223 than 7.62x39.... So with that in mind yes I own a couple guns that would be able to utilize that.. Look at third world countries.. and the abundance of ammunition and firearms being utilized.. Do these nations tend to have an abundance of Armalite AR10s.. or are they mostly using AK pattern guns.. this shows you that as society breaks down.. and guns and ammunition start to float around.. what is in that specific geographical region will dominate in terms of availability....

[bigsal 757]

I think that a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 is a poor choice as a primary SHTF rifle.. sure its fine in a Katrina type situation if you plan to hunker down and shoot from your safe which is filled with ammo..

 

consider lawlessness to the level of not being able to stay where you are..

now consider road congestion to the point of no moving traffic...

you are now going to have to walk it..

how much 7.62x39 can you carry? how many magazines?

 

I love my Saiga and will never leave it behind.. but I have long guns chambered in domestically produced ammo for the unlikely long term SHTF lack of organized society type situation.. AR ammunition and magazines will be abundant... Russian military stuff? while you may find it.. will be far less abundant.. I think that it is valuable to choose a weapon for that scenario based on what you are most likely to find...

 

In that scenario shouldnt you just field the best gun and than replace it with captured gear when/if you run out of ammunition?

 

I just dont see the need to own an inferior weapons system just because most cops and military do.

[VladTepes 160]

I just dont see the need to own an inferior weapons system just because most cops and military do.

 

best post ever!

 

my g/fs brother who is a cop while checking out my safe says "how the hell do you have more bad ass guns than we have?" lol their department is slowly changing over to AR15 platform for in patrol cars, and what does he want to shoot.. my saiga.. lol while I prefer the AK system most of my guns share common rounds with LE/Military

 

Glock 23 40 S&W

Mossberg pump 12 gauge

Berreta Storm 40 S&W

AR10 308

 

and so on.. my Saiga is the most uncommon round I own.. lol I am going to put together another AR in 5.56 just to have.. and the huge caliber availability through different uppers has always been interesting.. but I always hesitate to pull the trigger on shit like that.. like I would like to put together a 6.8 upper.. but I always worry about ammo availability..

[docfury 1]

Well according to General Westmoreland in his guide on partisan fighting, he said using AK-47s and SKSs as primary weapons was fine, but that you should be familiar with the M-16/M-4 because most likely, due to the large volume of these weapons in country, youll end up using one eventually.

[bigsal 757]

I just dont see the need to own an inferior weapons system just because most cops and military do.

 

best post ever!

 

my g/fs brother who is a cop while checking out my safe says "how the hell do you have more bad ass guns than we have?" lol their department is slowly changing over to AR15 platform for in patrol cars, and what does he want to shoot.. my saiga.. lol while I prefer the AK system most of my guns share common rounds with LE/Military

 

Glock 23 40 S&W

Mossberg pump 12 gauge

Berreta Storm 40 S&W

AR10 308

 

and so on.. my Saiga is the most uncommon round I own.. lol I am going to put together another AR in 5.56 just to have.. and the huge caliber availability through different uppers has always been interesting.. but I always hesitate to pull the trigger on shit like that.. like I would like to put together a 6.8 upper.. but I always worry about ammo availability..

Well, I think if there is something to having a 556 on hand, than you might consider the ak platofrm (chambered in 556/223) so long as you are able to put away enough magazines.

 

 

... Also Damage, what the hell are you letting LEO's look in your safe for! Thats mistake #1

Edited October 9, 2010 by bigsal

[VladTepes 160]

I just dont see the need to own an inferior weapons system just because most cops and military do.

 

best post ever!

 

my g/fs brother who is a cop while checking out my safe says "how the hell do you have more bad ass guns than we have?" lol their department is slowly changing over to AR15 platform for in patrol cars, and what does he want to shoot.. my saiga.. lol while I prefer the AK system most of my guns share common rounds with LE/Military

 

Glock 23 40 S&W

Mossberg pump 12 gauge

Berreta Storm 40 S&W

AR10 308

 

and so on.. my Saiga is the most uncommon round I own.. lol I am going to put together another AR in 5.56 just to have.. and the huge caliber availability through different uppers has always been interesting.. but I always hesitate to pull the trigger on shit like that.. like I would like to put together a 6.8 upper.. but I always worry about ammo availability..

Well, I think if there is something to having a 556 on hand, than you might consider the ak platofrm (chambered in 556/223) so long as you are able to put away enough magazines.

 

 

... Also Damage, what the hell are you letting LEO's look in your safe for! Thats mistake #1

 

 

NJ is a Nazi state when it comes to gun laws.. so I ride it to the LETTER of the law.. no secrets in my safe...

 

and he is literally one of my best friends.. no worries there.. lol

 

I had a Saiga in 223 and if I ever get to putting together another AR in 223/556 I may pick up another Saiga in 223/556 there is something about having another Saiga chambered in something more common.. like.. to have an AR in 223, AND have another Saiga in 223 I think I would be good to go.. get the mag adapter and then they can share mags and ammo.. but don't worry.. the 7.62x39 isn't going anywhere.. lol

[t3mac21 1]

7.62x39 is one of the most common rifle calibers in America.

[VladTepes 160]

7.62x39 is one of the most common rifle calibers in America.

 

 

yeah WAY more common than .223

 

it must be cool to just make shit up as you go along! :lolol:

[t3mac21 1]

You keep refering to "common" caliber, the x39 is one of the best selling, most available (common) calibers in the USA.

 

 

I'm not making shit up.

 

you even called it "uncommon", just because it's not a military round doesn't make it "uncommon", .22lr and .30-06 are still the top sellers in the country. 7.62x39 is right up on that list. And once again, it's produced by all major American companies, and has veen for sometime.

Edited October 9, 2010 by t3mac21

[Ermac 8]

Get a WASR. I have a 1500 dollar AK's and the WASR doesn't shoot better. It's just snobbery on here

[t3mac21 1]

I mean, my WASR shoots great but I'm sure an SGL probably does shoot marginally better.

 

 

It's just, they're not bench guns to begin with. Thats why the magazine holds 30

[VladTepes 160]

It's just, they're not bench guns to begin with. Thats why the magazine holds 30

THIS I agree with..

[paprotective 362]

It's just, they're not bench guns to begin with. Thats why the magazine holds 30

THIS I agree with..

 

I also agree... hence the $80 red-dot and shoot-n-move concept..

 

I'm consistent at 200 yards with 6" SWATHS and that make ME happy..

 

These are not rifles for BENCHING unless your testing ammo for IT specifically..

 

 

Al

[VladTepes 160]

It's just, they're not bench guns to begin with. Thats why the magazine holds 30

THIS I agree with..

 

I also agree... hence the $80 red-dot and shoot-n-move concept..

 

I'm consistent at 200 yards with 6" SWATHS and that make ME happy..

 

These are not rifles for BENCHING unless your testing ammo for IT specifically..

 

 

Al

 

NOT saying all $80 optics are junk.. not even implying that.. but sometimes the difference between an $80 optic and a $200+ optic is the optics ability to not fail in harsh environments and its ability to maintain zero.. I have an Aimpoint T1 which was pretty expensive... but I have it because I know that its solid and will hold up to anything I do to it..

[paprotective 362]

vladtepes..

 

So far my Bushnell Trophy Red-Dot(s) have all worked well and held zero.

 

Some on here run the Bushnell TRS-25 version.. I prefer the 1x28 tube.. (less height to snag)

 

Retail is $80-115 on this model.. I just dug around for the lowest pricing $77 shipped..

 

Where at in NJ are you?? I'm near Burlington, NJ.. and shoot at Range 14 alot..

 

 

Al

[VladTepes 160]

vladtepes..

 

So far my Bushnell Trophy Red-Dot(s) have all worked well and held zero.

 

Some on here run the Bushnell TRS-25 version.. I prefer the 1x28 tube.. (less height to snag)

 

Retail is $80-115 on this model.. I just dug around for the lowest pricing $77 shipped..

 

Where at in NJ are you?? I'm near Burlington, NJ.. and shoot at Range 14 alot..

 

 

Al

 

 

oh cool i was thinking about checking that place out.. I am a little further south.. ocean city area.. I shoot at the atlantic county range all the time.. how do you go about being able to shoot at range 14.. like I said I have been considering checking it out!

[paprotective 362]

just need a dl from any state.. $60/yr and just $3/hour.. 200 yard rifle.. skeet range and a pistol range..

[VladTepes 160]

just need a dl from any state.. $60/yr and just $3/hour.. 200 yard rifle.. skeet range and a pistol range..

 

 

do i need to take a class?

 

the website says no steel cased ammo? do they enforce that? that would mean you can not shoot wolf or anything like that..

Edited October 11, 2010 by vladtepes

[paprotective 362]

I see even AR guys running steel case ammo..

 

I shoot ALOT of Wolf/Tula and the don't complain..

 

They have a guy whom rakes up the brass (so I guess he reloads)

 

He's never said nothing to me.. we're almost like buddies I go there every other weekend...

 

They never told me nothing.. just no glass targets.... is on each shooting positions roof.

[Ruffian72 548]

See at times this always turns into "Mine Is Better Than Yours". Have vault with many types and manufactures. Will just go with AK platform for dependability. Feel bad for city persons. Will have to get mean just to get out. Will police/military just be the best armed gang? And with family in tow? If long term will have to leave, short term hunker down. Will you have to take on the scum just to get basic supplies, or can you wait and defend?

[facepull 3]

i kinda think everyone here is missing a certain point. you wont be engaging in a longterm military battle. you wont be shooting 1000's of rounds either. you can easily carry 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 in a well made back pack. probably even more if you are in good shape. based on a most likely scenario you will shoot alittle and move alot.