Long story short - undergassed, workin on it!

[kingjoey 5]

If you decide to drill (I think your ports are big enough though), be careful not to get the metal between the holes to thin or it will crack and you could end up with one big hole and a helluva bang the next time you pull the trigger. Seen cracks on a lot of home-drill jobs

[vinnivanhood 17]

I'm just wondering just how difficult it is to move the gas block,

and how hard to get it back in place again?

I dont even have a press so I'd have to rent one I guess.

Whole thing sounds like a PITA though!

[psl sniper 963]

I'm just wondering just how difficult it is to move the gas block,

and how hard to get it back in place again?

I dont even have a press so I'd have to rent one I guess.

Whole thing sounds like a PITA though!

its not to hard once you get the pins out. theres a thread at the top in the stickies that gives a good step by step. i dont have a press either, i just used a ball pean hammer and a 14g steel bar. took less than an hour.heres the link for the block removal

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33836

Edited October 10, 2010 by psl sniper

[Paulyski 2,227]

Also, scribing reference marks beforehand, to get it in the correct position upon reinstallation is a really good idea.

 

Don't drill the ports backward. A round point mill bit may cut a cleaner hole than a drill bit, but you would require a drill press to control it.

 

 

Also, read this thread to get an idea of port adjustments with relation to different lengths of solid barrel.

It should give you an idea to work up some formulas...

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=38318

 

Or, just send it back to Tom if he'll take it & the KA puck doesn't help you.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Paulyski

[vinnivanhood 17]

Took me long enough, but I got the gas block off.

As far as a drill all I have are a cordless and a dremel,

so I'm gonna try to find somewhere I can use something

with more stability, if not I'll just try it anyway.

I think if I take my time and start small I'd do ok.

We'll see...

[vinnivanhood 17]

Latest update: OK so I drilled two more small ports making an X patern, then had to slightly open up the clearance of the gas blocks opening for them. Ive got it all back together But I lost the spring that goes behind the button to lock the plug adjuster in, and so it wont lock into position. So I guess I'll have to see what I can find at Lowes or somewhere to replace it. Really sucks cause I'm dying to try it out now!

 

-edit: nevermind I found the spring! Its all ready now, just need a place to shoot!

Edited October 21, 2010 by vinnivanhood

[vinnivanhood 17]

OK I got to try a few mags but still getting FTE with the cheep stuff, I had the magnum twister puck in though so I'll probly try it with the standard twister before doing anything else. I did try one mag of slugs mixed with 00 and they cycle just fine still.

[vinnivanhood 17]

Well I just tried it with the standard twister and it didnt make any difference, so I'm thinking about taking it back apart and enlarging the two new gas ports I drilled to the same size as the other three holes. I'm gonna take a good look at everything and see if thats what I want to do for sure.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Well I just tried it with the standard twister and it didnt make any difference, so I'm thinking about taking it back apart and enlarging the two new gas ports I drilled to the same size as the other three holes. I'm gonna take a good look at everything and see if thats what I want to do for sure.

4 ports @ .093" + friction reduction = ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejy58DCoYKE

.... and making rednecks laugh

[vinnivanhood 17]

Well I just tried it with the standard twister and it didnt make any difference, so I'm thinking about taking it back apart and enlarging the two new gas ports I drilled to the same size as the other three holes. I'm gonna take a good look at everything and see if thats what I want to do for sure.

4 ports @ .093" + friction reduction = ....

.... and making rednecks laugh

 

So far I have 3 ports at .093" and 2 more at about .055" ,but my gas block is sort of blocking the extra 2 and it looks like the auto plug has a slightly narrower opening then the gas block does, but it should still fit thru the spacing of the thickness of the gas block wall, so I'm leaning towards taking the block off again, enlarging the new holes, and making a clearer route for the gas to get thru.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Are you sure your hammer is slightly profiled & the friction is reduced elsewhere?

I think you should be good to go in the gas department.

You don't wanna over do it on your porting...

Just this week we have 2 members that split their carriers & coincidentally have over ported guns.

 

Just sayin'...

Edited October 24, 2010 by Paulyski

[saigaguy09 3]

Info for those thinking about smashing the gas block off. When you finally get the thing off, there's a small carbon residue circle thats left from the large port drilled vertically in the gas block to let pressurized gas from the +/- 45* angled barrel ports reach the puck, and drive the bolt carrier back. Use this circle to determine if you've got partially blocked gas ports, or if you enlarge your existing ports/add more ports, you'll be able to see if you need to also open-up the large port in the gas block.

 

Vinnivanhood- When I removed my gas block I found out that the 2 factory gas ports were both 50% blocked by the opening in the gas block. This is in an 2008 24". While I had the gas block off I re-installed my Gunfixer plug. With that plug threaded all the way in and backed out to setting-3, or wide open, the plug hung out over top of the ports even furthur, on top of the undersized port in the gas block. When it was backed out 1 full rotation from the first setting-3, it move out about 3/32", and the plug no longer blocked the large gas block port. I decided to hand file the foreward opening of the gas block port to match up with the Gunfixer plug on setting-3 + 1-rotation, to make shure that my 2 factory ports were 100% unblocked. I ended up enlarging the ports to 3/32" and drilling a third.

 

So if you get that gas block off again, screw in that plug and see what your working with.

Edited October 24, 2010 by saigaguy09

[vinnivanhood 17]

Update: I got gas block pounded off Again and drilled out the 2 new ports I added last time a hair larger and cut out some material from the block itself over where the new ports are. Got it pounded back on but totally screwed up the internal adjuster threads and that took some time to fix without a chaser! I was gonna make one out of the factory plug but I cant find where I put it.Anyway its all done and re-assembled and ready for testing! Hoping to get to try it Monday. I did some more polishing on the internals but still havent got a mirror finish yet, if it still has FTE's my next step will be polishing and more polishing but I will eventually either way. Anyone know where I can get good jewelers rouge? Stuff I got from Harbor Freight sucks!

-I by the way cant take the gas block all the way off because of the permanently attached Warthog.

-Also want to thank everyone for their input!!! You guys all rock!

[Paulyski 2,227]

How are you polishing?

 

Personally, I do finishing shaping with a 240 grit Dremel drum sander, then use Dremel Abrasive prep pads, THEN Dremel polishing pads with, yes... Harbor freight compound. (the stuff that comes in the drill mount polishing kit)

 

If you skip using abrasive prep pads, you'll have a hard time with the "mirrored" finish.

The abrasive prep pads are equivalent to 1000+ grit sand paper & nearly polish the steel themselves... The wool dremel polishing pad & rouge just finish the job.

[vinnivanhood 17]

How are you polishing?

 

Personally, I do finishing shaping with a 240 grit Dremel drum sander, then use Dremel Abrasive prep pads, THEN Dremel polishing pads with, yes... Harbor freight compound. (the stuff that comes in the drill mount polishing kit)

 

If you skip using abrasive prep pads, you'll have a hard time with the "mirrored" finish.

The abrasive prep pads are equivalent to 1000+ grit sand paper & nearly polish the steel themselves... The wool dremel polishing pad & rouge just finish the job.

Yeah that must be my problem, I skipped the abrasive prep pads just like you said! Thanks!

The compound from my Harbor Freight sells separately is like hard chalk and the Lowes and Sears

didn't sell it separately. I havent been there in a while, but I'm goin shopping for those

prep pads, maybe they'll have some now.

[vinnivanhood 17]

Update: OK so I got some prep pads and did some more polishing and found some rouge at Lowes and anyway everything looks alot closer but still no mirror but I figure I'll just keep at it here and the when Im bored but anyway I now have 5 full and clear gas ports but it just didnt make a bit of difference! All I can figure is the two new ones are possibly too far in and under the puck when its forward making them useless? Sooo... Im thinking coming back to the front and adding another port ther but its going to be close if not on the edge of the threads so Im not sure if the adjuster will be blocking it? So Im just going to have to figure this all out what it looks like inside when its all together. So I need to start making alot of measurements and sketching out where everything is meeting up at internally so I know whats going on in there. still no problems with high brass loads, and no over-gassing - still ejecting the same. But the cheep stuff is FTE every single round!

[zenman223 460]

I didnt read the whole thread but what size are your current ports? i dont think you should need 6 ports!! are they drilled at the correct angle? I mean i guess if the top 2 are covered by the gas block but if thats the case you should be able to mod the GB rather than add more ports. not sure what to tell you about the ports, someone with more knowledge can advise you better on the gas system but i would say you dont need anymore ports you need to look elsewhere. how many rounds do you have through the gun?

 

as far as polishing goes, I like to use Mothers mag & aluminum polish. It comes in a small white tub, they sell it at walmart and auto stores. I was using the red dremel compound and it just wasnt doing it for me so i tried some of the mothers i had laying around and it really does give it a mirror finish! way better than that dremel crap. i like to us the flat sanding disks to take out the pits in the metal and once you use them abit they get worn down and will polish the scratchs they make right out. then i go straight to the felt wheels with alittle mothers on the wheel and some on the metal.

 

ETA I read through the thread, it sounds like you may have other issues besides port size, are you still using the twister puck? this could be the cause of your problems. twister pucks are known to bleed gas and generally not work very well! also are you using the tac47 autoplug? this too could be the cause of the problem. from what ive read the autoplug has trouble cycling bulk pack loads(atleast without proper tuning) make sure your hammer is profiled correctly. another thing i suggest you is you need to take everything aftermarket off your gun. EVERYTHING. return it to stock as much as you can and go from there. once you get it working then you can add parts one by one, so you can tell if issues arise from any of them. some aftermarket parts like Rails and such have been known to cause issues, you really need to get everything off your gun at least till you get it running right!

Edited November 6, 2010 by big-J

[vinnivanhood 17]

I didnt read the whole thread but what size are your current ports? i dont think you should need 6 ports!! are they drilled at the correct angle? I mean i guess if the top 2 are covered by the gas block but if thats the case you should be able to mod the GB rather than add more ports. not sure what to tell you about the ports, someone with more knowledge can advise you better on the gas system but i would say you dont need anymore ports you need to look elsewhere. how many rounds do you have through the gun?

 

as far as polishing goes, I like to use Mothers mag & aluminum polish. It comes in a small white tub, they sell it at walmart and auto stores. I was using the red dremel compound and it just wasnt doing it for me so i tried some of the mothers i had laying around and it really does give it a mirror finish! way better than that dremel crap. i like to us the flat sanding disks to take out the pits in the metal and once you use them abit they get worn down and will polish the scratchs they make right out. then i go straight to the felt wheels with alittle mothers on the wheel and some on the metal.

 

ETA I read through the thread, it sounds like you may have other issues besides port size, are you still using the twister puck? this could be the cause of your problems. twister pucks are known to bleed gas and generally not work very well! also are you using the tac47 autoplug? this too could be the cause of the problem. from what ive read the autoplug has trouble cycling bulk pack loads(atleast without proper tuning) make sure your hammer is profiled correctly. another thing i suggest you is you need to take everything aftermarket off your gun. EVERYTHING. return it to stock as much as you can and go from there. once you get it working then you can add parts one by one, so you can tell if issues arise from any of them. some aftermarket parts like Rails and such have been known to cause issues, you really need to get everything off your gun at least till you get it running right!

well the thing is I hadnt changed anything since having the barrel shortened and it ran high brass great and low brass ok before(was just slightly under-gassed then and ejected poorly, but did) . So Im really just trying to replace the lost gas from the shortening and thats all. Ive done more polishing which Im sure doesnt hurt but hasnt helped, if I could get a reloading setup and make powerful stuff cheaply but it doesn't sound like thats any cheaper from what Ive heard? Once again I appreciate any and all input! But Im gonna stick with getting some precision measurements and posibly drill a forward port if it looks feasible. I figure if it turns out bad, I ca just close some! But with five already Im not getting any trunnion slam or ejecting shells far at all, etc . by the way, yes I did do my share of pumpkin annihilation tonight !!! Despite the issues it sure was fun!!!

Im gonna get it dialed in eventually!!! And definitely going to take a lot of precision measurements before going further! Make myself a little 3D drawing of the internals and see what and where I have to work with... Its a slow process but well worth it!!! and what else am I gonna do homework? LOL not tonight!

Edited November 6, 2010 by vinnivanhood