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BrandonfromTampa

how accurate is your saiga?

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A few quick questions:

1. What kind of accuracy do you get from a NIB saiga 7.62x39?

2. Can you do anything to improve the accuracy?

3. What brand of cartridges do you use?

Edited by BrandonfromTampa

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1. I would not even bother to shoot a non-converted Saiga so I can not help there.. apologies.. what I can tell you is that my rifle hits man sized targets center mass all day long at medium range (I have had the rifle out to about 150 yards, NJ is tough to get longer distance ranges) with little to no effort.. the gun shoots fast and reliably and that is all I can tell you because that is the task the gun is assembled around..

 

2. convert the gun in stock form it is god awful.. the trigger pull post conversion will be night and day.. smooth trigger = better results..

 

3. any non-corrosive ammo.. prefer newer wolf

 

hope that helps..

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1. I was able to get 4 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. Haven't tried it since my conversion at that range though.

2. I'm sure the conversion will add a bit more accuracy.

3. I like to use yugo surplus ammo personally or silver bear

 

1. I was able to get 4 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. Haven't tried it since my conversion at that range though.

2. I'm sure the conversion will add a bit more accuracy.

3. I like to use yugo surplus ammo personally or silver bear

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I like to shoot bowling pins at 100 yards and it's relatively easy to knock them down. Further then 100 yards I can't see them.

 

I use non-corrosive brown bear ammo because it is cheap.

 

Shoot more and your accuracy will improve

Edited by TO THE FLOOR

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Anyway, Here's three groups of three out of my WASR at 100 yards. Yugo m67 surplus. I'd imagine a saiga should be just a little more accurate.

 

range3.jpg

 

range1.jpg

 

That's the view down range to the target. Iron sights off my range bag.

 

 

They aren't bench guns. They shoot great off-hand at targets though. I set up water bottles and jugs and knock em down off-hand at 100-200 yards without issue.

Edited by t3mac21

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I had my unconverted saiga 7.62x39 out to the range a few weeks ago. Wanted to make sure the gun functioned well and grouped ok before I converted.

I was very impessed with its mechanical accuracy.

From a bench rested, supported position I had several sub 2", 3 round groups at 100 yards. The first 3 round group I shot was about 1 1/2" and I thought it was fluke. A couple 3 round groups opened up to between 4-5" but I blame myself and the terrible stock trigger. This was all slow fire shooting, applying all of my ability and not letting the gun heat up. I don't think people do this type of shooting often with an AK pattern rifle in this calibre: (after accuracy testing I could not help myself and did some mag dumps at concrete blocks).

I wanted to know what the gun was capable of, as I will use it for short range deer hunting.

 

I can't wait until my conversion parts arrive and I can rip that junk trigger extention thing out of my gun!

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I had my unconverted saiga 7.62x39 out to the range a few weeks ago. Wanted to make sure the gun functioned well and grouped ok before I converted.

I was very impessed with its mechanical accuracy.

From a bench rested, supported position I had several sub 2", 3 round groups at 100 yards. The first 3 round group I shot was about 1 1/2" and I thought it was fluke. A couple 3 round groups opened up to between 4-5" but I blame myself and the terrible stock trigger. This was all slow fire shooting, applying all of my ability and not letting the gun heat up. I don't think people do this type of shooting often with an AK pattern rifle in this calibre: (after accuracy testing I could not help myself and did some mag dumps at concrete blocks).

I wanted to know what the gun was capable of, as I will use it for short range deer hunting.

 

I can't wait until my conversion parts arrive and I can rip that junk trigger extention thing out of my gun!

 

Pics of sub 2" groups plz

 

 

But honestly, don't expect great groups with shit ammo. The American ammo I've shot has provided the best accuracy, followed by surplus yugo. You can't expect wof, golden tiger, etc to provide good groups.

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Here is a 100 yards standing.. with 6MOA Red Dot.. just plowing away.. with my 762x39 Saiga..

 

most are in 4-7" SWATH in the middle.. (thats an 8" shoot-n-c)

 

post-8775-097062400 1286508305_thumb.jpg

 

when they get hot.. they go up/down (for me anyway).. heres another at 100 yards..:killer:

 

post-8775-031215400 1286508750_thumb.jpg

 

Havn't really shot for accuracy with anything less than 20-40 rounds with this yet..

 

Thinking I can get 2-3" groups at 100 yards if I scope'd it vs. the red dot though.. I did that type of thing early this year.. posts here in section somehwere with pics..

 

want to get locked in for 100 yards and then bust 200 yards again though...

 

Just got new 3 MOA red dot to replace the 6 MOA red dot I sold...

 

Will post in about 2 weeks results.. keep watch..

 

Prefer Tula FMJ or Wolf MC 124HP.. I have heard and agree though 124FMJ is the way to go.. Some have had good luck with BB or SB Soft Points...

 

 

 

Al

Edited by YWHIC

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But honestly, don't expect great groups with shit ammo. The American ammo I've shot has provided the best accuracy, followed by surplus yugo. You can't expect wof, golden tiger, etc to provide good groups.

I had posted a 2 1/2" group on here that I used golden tiger for. I was standing and using my truck as a rest, and using iron sights.

 

Its still not Sub 2" like is being said, But its not that far out of question.

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But honestly, don't expect great groups with shit ammo. The American ammo I've shot has provided the best accuracy, followed by surplus yugo. You can't expect wof, golden tiger, etc to provide good groups.

I had posted a 2 1/2" group on here that I used golden tiger for. I was standing and using my truck as a rest, and using iron sights.

 

Its still not Sub 2" like is being said, But its not that far out of question.

 

Golden tiger is great ammo. So are many of the other foreign types.

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"great" is subjective. It's cheap, it feeds good and goes bang everytime. It's not that "great" when you compare it to typical centerfire loads from American companies. Of course, that stuff is expensive.

 

 

Oh, and I don't doubt 2.5 inch groups at all.

Edited by t3mac21

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Here's the best group I have ever gotten with my SGL21, which is 1.75". More typical carefully-aimed, bench rest groups are about 2.25". I only shoot commercial Russian ammo.

 

post-10789-078654300 1286550736_thumb.jpg

 

Here's my best group using irons:

 

post-10789-063525500 1286551045_thumb.jpg

Edited by SpetsnazGRU
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"great" is subjective. It's cheap, it feeds good and goes bang everytime. It's not that "great" when you compare it to typical centerfire loads from American companies. Of course, that stuff is expensive.

 

 

Oh, and I don't doubt 2.5 inch groups at all.

 

Its amazing how much you know, with so little evidence to back it up.

 

Dont hate the ammo because you arent the best shot T3mac :haha:

Edited by Chevyman097
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"great" is subjective. It's cheap, it feeds good and goes bang everytime. It's not that "great" when you compare it to typical centerfire loads from American companies. Of course, that stuff is expensive.

 

 

Oh, and I don't doubt 2.5 inch groups at all.

 

Its amazing how much you know, with so little evidence to back it up.

 

Dont hate the ammo because you arent the best shot T3mac :haha:

It's amazing how you ride my nuts so much.

 

I think it's pretty common knowledge that the mass produced foreign loads like wolf and GT don't have the same consistency as higher priced American loads. Go ahead and break some bullets down and weigh the powder.

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"great" is subjective. It's cheap, it feeds good and goes bang everytime. It's not that "great" when you compare it to typical centerfire loads from American companies. Of course, that stuff is expensive.

 

 

Oh, and I don't doubt 2.5 inch groups at all.

 

Its amazing how much you know, with so little evidence to back it up.

 

Dont hate the ammo because you arent the best shot T3mac :haha:

It's amazing how you ride my nuts so much.

 

I think it's pretty common knowledge that the mass produced foreign loads like wolf and GT don't have the same consistency as higher priced American loads. Go ahead and break some bullets down and weigh the powder.

 

Since you brought it up why dont you provide all this info. ANd while your at it gather the info on that 2.5 inch group not being likely and lets see it too.

 

Im not disputing that high dollar expensive ammo is more accurate. Im saying that golden tiger and other foreign ammo is not the shit you say it is.

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"great" is subjective. It's cheap, it feeds good and goes bang everytime. It's not that "great" when you compare it to typical centerfire loads from American companies. Of course, that stuff is expensive.

 

 

Oh, and I don't doubt 2.5 inch groups at all.

 

Its amazing how much you know, with so little evidence to back it up.

 

Dont hate the ammo because you arent the best shot T3mac :haha:

It's amazing how you ride my nuts so much.

 

I think it's pretty common knowledge that the mass produced foreign loads like wolf and GT don't have the same consistency as higher priced American loads. Go ahead and break some bullets down and weigh the powder.

 

Since you brought it up why dont you provide all this info. ANd while your at it gather the info on that 2.5 inch group not being likely and lets see it too.

 

Im not disputing that high dollar expensive ammo is more accurate. Im saying that golden tiger and other foreign ammo is not the shit you say it is.

 

 

It's shitty in comparison. I never said 2.5 inch groups were impossible. I just wanted to see pics of the sub 2". I'm sure off a real bench with optics my WASR could do 2.5 with good ammo. That's not exactly the point of the rifle though is it? It hits what I'm aiming at, and I'm not aiming at quarters. :haha:

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All you have to do is google or youtube. I'm not saying it's "shit", I have a bunch of wolf and GT, it's just not as consistent as yugo surplus or American ammo. It's perfectly fine though. This isn't exactly a revelation, this has been known for years and years. It's a little dirtier too and depending on what sort of coating the cases have, you might have the occassional feeding problem. The only FTF I've ever had with 7.62x39 has been with wolf ammo. I still shoot a lot of it though, it's pretty decent stuff.

 

 

Now, please continue to ride my nuts around the forum. :lolol:

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A few quick questions:

1. What kind of accuracy do you get from a NIB saiga 7.62x39?

2. Can you do anything to improve the accuracy?

3. What brand of cartridges do you use?

 

The most precise factory ammo (not handloads) that I ever shot in any gun was Federal Gold Medal Match which produced half inch 5shot groups from a heavy barrel .308 bolt gun.

The same gun would shoot regular Winchester, Remington, and other Federal ammo types between 1 inch and 2.5 inches depending on the load. I tried some Wolf black box ammo in this gun one time and I started to see 3 to 4 inch groups for the first time. So, do I now say it is a 3 to 4 inch rifle because of the Wolf discovery? I think many AK owners limit themselves to common cheap ammo and decide to define their rifle's accuracy by their lower price choice of ammo. Occasionally, we see a proper handloaded ammo grouping (like Vern did in that .223 thread

) and then no one wants to believe it because of the propagated myth that this weapon platform is inherently minute of barndoor. I have shot near 1-1.5 MOA 5 shot groups with both a 7.62x39 Saiga and Vepr but it was with Hornady Vmax (non handloads) bullets and both guns were scoped and benched on sand bags and interval time spaced. Do I think this is the end all of definitive accuracy evaluation? No. I have not even had a chance to use real match loads or handloaded match loads. My point is that one can not truely define the gun's potential with anything less than the best fit ammo for that gun.

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Here are the best groups I have done with my Saiga. The one in February was about 1". The one in June was about 1.75". Both used the same 4.5X scope, a rest, and Brown Bear HP ammo.

 

100yardssmall.jpg

img1124small.jpg

 

jrmock

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"""""Pics of sub 2" groups plz""""""""

 

 

I have never taken a picture of a target that I have shot at the range. I don't even keep them. Just paste them and shoot again.

 

I don't blame you if you don't believe me, I didn't believe it myself with the first group. Doesn't hurt my feelings:cryss:

 

I was using Black Hills soft point hunting ammo. Method was load 1 round in mag, hand cycle round slow, put on safe, bump charging handle forward....place rifle in rest on purpose built shooting bench (sandbags for buttstock and my upper body as well, with some small articles of clothing added for maximum stability, do breathing control exersize, fire 1 round. Then I would wait about 2 minutes for rifle to cool and repeat 2 times. Walk down range to inspect target...so rifle has ample time to cool, and paste target.

The reason I would hand cycle the rounds is because soft point bullets seem to get dinged up by natural cycle of weapon, or even "slingshot" hand cycle. Bump charging handle just to try to make sure bolt locked up consistantly every time ( don't know if this matters or not).

I know this is not intended purpose of weapon, but I was curious and mirrors hunting application.

Even taking all these steps I only was able to shoot 4 groups at or within 2".

 

I wonder if Saiga handguard setup helps a bit as it doesn't seem to contact barrel much, unlike normal handguard retainer setup? Trigger definitely does not help.

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I believe you. I just wanted to see the pics :)

 

I'm also going to bring my AK out this season a few times. Most shots on whitetails around here are under 100 yards, I usually use .30-30 but, the x39 should do just fine. I have to get a 5 round mag though per state law. (NY)

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I was using Black Hills soft point hunting ammo. Method was load 1 round in mag, hand cycle round slow, put on safe, bump charging handle forward....place rifle in rest on purpose built shooting bench (sandbags for buttstock and my upper body as well, with some small articles of clothing added for maximum stability, do breathing control exersize, fire 1 round. Then I would wait about 2 minutes for rifle to cool and repeat 2 times. Walk down range to inspect target...so rifle has ample time to cool, and paste target.

The reason I would hand cycle the rounds is because soft point bullets seem to get dinged up by natural cycle of weapon, or even "slingshot" hand cycle. Bump charging handle just to try to make sure bolt locked up consistantly every time ( don't know if this matters or not).

I know this is not intended purpose of weapon, but I was curious and mirrors hunting application.

Even taking all these steps I only was able to shoot 4 groups at or within 2".

I wonder if Saiga handguard setup helps a bit as it doesn't seem to contact barrel much, unlike normal handguard retainer setup? Trigger definitely does not help.

 

That is nearly how I shoot mine for best accuracy.

 

I think that you have struck on something that is often overlooked when gauging accuracy. Is anyone doubts this, press an empty mag into their saiga and then a loaded mag and

feel the spring resistance difference with the latch fully open held by hand. A single round in the magazine presses against the bolt carrier at a certain pressure.

A full mag presses with much more pressure due to the compressed spring. Variable pressure against the bolt carrier affects the bolt also. When the rifle fires, anything that shakes or vibrates differently each time can potentially affect the bullet launch. This loaded magazine affect has been noticed on FAL rifles causing a stringing effect of the group.

By loading a single round at a time for bench resting, there should never be variable spring pressure against the carrier and this would help keep things more consistent.

Another thing is barrel heat. Temperature change causes the barrel to vibrate differently and this affects the point of impact. Keeping the temperature nearly the same at each launch also helps with consistency. Letting it cool prevents the barrel from changing point of impact. The old wood style handguards trap heat against the barrel and that does not help matters. The 100 series handguards were originally designed to not touch the barrel which helps prevent heat trapping and variable hand pressure against the barrel like with handguards that do touch directly. Of course, this only works if the 100 series retainer is used that locks the handguard away from the barrel with those folded ears not present on regular AKM/AK47 retainers.

The saiga factory sporter handguards only touch the barrel at the gas block pin and this helps to prevent variable pressure on the barrel.

Hell, even a slightly loose muzzle device like a flash hider or brake is going to shake enough to hammer the muzzle at the most critical point of launch.

Someone cleaning their barrel incorrectly and rubbing the steel rod against te crown is going to trash the last surface the bullet touches (the crown) and ruin their accuracy.

Keeping the exact same conditions at every launch makes for the best accuracy.

There are just way too many things people overlook when determining if the gun is accurate.

Edited by my762buzz

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A few quick questions:

1. What kind of accuracy do you get from a NIB saiga 7.62x39?

2. Can you do anything to improve the accuracy?

3. What brand of cartridges do you use?

 

these two links might help out with your search for info.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=54720&hl=leadslinger&st=0

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=49838&st=0&p=464353&hl=leadslinger&fromsearch=1entry464353

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I can tell you I shoot hogs right behind the ear anywhere from 50-120'ish yards and haven't missed yet. Drop them bastards right where they stand with either my 7.62X39, 5.56 or Saiga 12 w/ 1oz slugs. Shot and dropped a Mama Mountain Lion a few months back from 120 yards with my 7.62X39. Right through both lungs...she jumped, spun and dropped like a brick. I guess my "best shot" with a Saiga was a coyote @ about 200 yards. That was with my 5.56.

 

I can attest to the damage the Yugo surplus ammo 7.62 does to meat. Blows a serious hole in hogs. Wound channel is impressive to say the least. 5.56 (LC 09) gets the job done but is not anywhere near as destructive as the Yugo surplus 7.62.

 

Now for pure entertainment purposes...take your Saiga 12...load it with Winchester or Remington 1 oz rifled slugs..

Shoot Mr. Piggy in the head with that sum bitch from around 50-75 yards. Ain't no wound channel....cuz there aint no head.

 

I'll try and get one of them damn hogs to stand still so I can staple some targets on their ass.....

 

All my Saiga's have been converted. Out of the box there is way too much trigger "creep" IMHO to allow for optimum accuracy.

Edited by The Sarge

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