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Wanting a Saiga, but which Caliber?


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Hello all,

 

First, I'm not much of a firearms person. I am pretty much just starting out. But I do have a 1960 Auto-5 12g Mag. Only gun I have and looking for a good AK rifle. Why an AK? I think we all know why. They are nearly perfect machines. Simple and reliable, just works.

 

I have looked around the net and I have found a lot of information about AK-47s and 74s. I am pretty sure I am going to settle on a Saiga AK variant rifle and do a conversion. I was also thinking about the arsenal AKs which I have heard good things about, but they are a bit more pricey. My main issue is which caliber?

 

I am kind of leaning a bit away from 7.62. I know that is what the AK was made for and it has kick and the widely available 7.62 rounds around the world. But I'm going for more accuracy than power. All of those rounds within 100m are going to hurt.

 

I like the .223 for its flat trajectory and better range. But not sure about it compared to the 5.45 and .308

 

The 5.45 round is for the AK74, which I think would be better suited to me than the 47.

 

The .308 really interested me, but I haven't read too much about it. I read they are powerful AND very accurate. Would it be hard to find .308 ammo? I think it would be damn sexy seeing those scope mounted Saiga .308 in an AK configuration.

 

Things that matter to me:

* Accurate

* Ammo availability. Cost of ammo is not *much* of a problem, I don't expect to be shooting crazy amounts, but once in awhile.

* Quality magazines, don't want things that will break.

 

Hm, not sure what else. I probably missed a few things.

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I own the 308, 5.45x39, & 7.62x39 Saiga rifles.

 

I have the AK74 for 200 work (sub-5" groups).. the 7.62x39 is my MBR for 100-200 yard work (run a 3moa red dot for just point and shoot).. the 308 is for 100 (2" groups or so) and work out to 400 yards (maybe 500 yard work).

 

545 CORROSIVE surplus ammo is cheap in a tin of 1080 rounds $149 shipped.. cleaning is another matter..

 

Commercial 762x39 Ammo is hovering at $5/20 rounds.. My local Dicks Sporting Goods now stocks it on the shelf for $8/box..

 

Commercial 308 ammo is on sale for $5/20 or usually now at $7-10 (online) or $18 at most WallyMarts..

 

I love my 1st.. :wub: .. its the 7.62x39 Saiga.. bought it for my last b-day for $450 :cryss:..

 

I know I can grab it.. just put the red-dot on the target and :killer:.. no thinking.. just shooting..

 

the 762x39 round is effective against wood, cinderblock, and some video showed BRICK..

 

Not sure on the 223 Saiga.. though the pricing on ammo is coming down to 762x39 range.. slowly..

 

If your shooting 100-200 yards.. any of these rifles will do it.. just figure out what you REALLY want it for..

 

 

Al

Edited by YWHIC
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7.62x39 or 5.45x39 gets my vote. They're both cheap enough to stock up on, when purchased by the case / tin. Quality military surplus magazines are readily available for both calibers. 7.62x39 has better penetration and is less likely to be deflected, but, 5.45x39 is more accurate with less recoil. I'm going to be picking up a 5.45x39 shortly. I love my 7.62x39, but, different tools for different jobs. I wouldn't mind a .308 eventually, just for versatility. .308 packs a big punch, but it's a little more costly to shoot. What will you primarily be using the rifle for? Range fun, hunting, self defense / just in case?

 

Sounds like you don't really want a 7.62x39, so, I would say go for the 5.45x39. The only problem is, the Saiga 5.45x39 isn't the easiest thing to find right now (until the next batch arrives), unless you catch one on GunBroker, a local shop, or pre-order one.

 

Just my .02

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I would avoid the .223 Saiga. The magazine situation with these is not good. It's impossible to know ahead of time - unless you buy a used one, I guess - whether they will accommodate (without extensive modification) the Bulgarian circle 10 magazines and the Galil steel mags. You may end up being stuck with poor quality American made magazines. For this caliber, and SLR106 is probably the best choice. I hate to recommend that, since I dislike K-Var/Arsenal more by the day, but the fact remains...

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I suggest the 7.62x39mm. But thats just me. Whatever you choose you wont be disappointed. These are some of the best rifles in the world. Heres a fun fact for you about k-var. They import saigas and convert them. So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

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depends..

 

if you plan on getting more down the road (you probably will, these are amazing and addictive), go with the 5.45, the savings on ammo will literally pay for your next gun. My 5.45 along with my cz-82 get the most range time of my guns just because of ammo price. Accurate and easy to shoot.

 

if your just want one gun, go for the 7.62.. The recoil isn't bad, the accuracy is much better than it gets credit for, and the round is a monster at destroying any cover. Ammo price isn't bad either, although owning both I prefer to shoot a mag or two through the 7.62 and then spend the rest of the day shooting 5.45.. That way I get the fun of shooting the 7.62 and then move onto the 5.45 to save a bit of money.

 

On the .308, it's actually a main battle rifle and they are supposed to be semi auto so those annoying tax stamps arn't neccesary to make it do what it's supposed to- fire nice big rounds on semi auto. Problem is the ammo cost makes it less fun to shoot. It's definately in contention for my favorite due to it's accuracy and the punch it packs but it gets the least range time due to the price of its' ammo.. Mags are also too expensive in my opinion.

 

.223 I would like some day but with the 5.45 around it's the least attractive of the options. More expensive than the 5.45, harder to find mags (unless you get the AR magwell adapter which is pretty cool).

 

If only they made one in 54r in the normal saiga configuration...

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So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

 

Let's do the math. For the sake of comparison, I will do Saiga 5.45 vs. SGL 31, but I don't expect it would be much different no matter which of the intermediate calibers we compare.

 

- Rifle: $320.

- New K-Var stock set: $100. (One could use Tapco furniture, but the purpose of this exercise is to see if we could build an _equivalent_ gun for significantly less.

- FCG: $30.

- Bullet guide: $30.

- Standard AK gas tube: $30.

- Handguard retainer: $30. ($85 if you go Dinzag). However, the handguard retainer will be inferior in both looks and function unless you pull off the front sight block and gas block to put one on - a lot of trouble, not to mention that most people simply will not be up to this job.

- Threaded front sight block: $70.

- AK 74 muzzle brake: $20.

- Trigger guard: $25, but we won't count this in the total since you can use the factory one. However, it will look and be inferior to the SGL setup, which has the trigger guard as one unit with the mag catch assembly.

- New paint job: $50 for a quality one? But, as this is not strictly necessary, we won't count this either. Just pointing out again that the final product will probably be inferior.

- Since we will have to obtain these parts at different vendors, we must add at least $30 in shipping (probably ought to be more).

- I had to buy various tools that I didn't have for Saiga conversions, but we'll leave these out too, since (as I rationalized it to my wife) these tools could be used for other kinds of projects around the house too.

 

Final price: $660. Cheapest SGL 31 is $779, so you've saved $119, if you didn't spend money on any of the extra things I mentioned. You might could save even more by using used parts, but again, the SGL is completely NEW. A rifle made of used parts is not as good as an SGL. And it still has holes in the receiver that the SGL lacks, has screws in various places instead of rivets, and sports a worse paint job. Lastly, how much is it worth to spare oneself additional time and effort?

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

Edited by Jim Digriz
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The rifle will be mainly for target use and self-defense. But I would hope not to have to ever use it on someone

however the way things are going... never know. I guess I am looking for more long range capability

 

I would like to hear more about .308 and its advantages and disadvantages and it compared to the 5.45 and

others.

 

I like what I have read about the 5.45. But I heard most of the ammo available is corrosive. Is that a big deal for

AKs?

 

Jim made a nice point about the .223 mags. Things like that turn me off and I have heard terrible things about

US made magazines.

 

Basically this is how I see it:

7.62x39 -- Very universal, powerful, but accuracy limited at longer ranges

.223 -- Better trajectory, wide ammo availability, but more expensive and problems with mag support

5.45x39 -- Accurate, better range, but bad ammo availability and most of it corrosive (not sure if that is so bad for AK)

and do you have to depend on Russia only for your ammo in 5.45?

.308 -- From what I heard, powerful and accurate and good range, but a lot more expensive. Not sure about ammo

availability. Not as universal as the others, less support for accessories I suppose.

 

Really hard to decide... I know I could get them all or whatever. But I figure you can only fire one gun at a time,

so make it the most versatile.

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I would like to hear more about .308 and its advantages and disadvantages and it compared to the 5.45 and

others.

 

Disadvantages: Cost of ammo, somewhat less accessories available (such as the Ultimak), not a great situation with magazines. Besides the 8 round factory mags, you are stuck with expensive U.S. mags that are not as good as 5.45 surplus mags. The csspecs mags are pretty good, but very heavy and costly.

 

Advantages: It's a 308 semi-auto AK. 'Nuff said.

 

I like what I have read about the 5.45. But I heard most of the ammo available is corrosive. Is that a big deal for

AKs?

 

Not a big deal. An easy cleaning routine takes care of this.

 

If you go 5.45, it would be good to work on rapid ammo stockpiling, because of availability concerns. You could get 20 cans (containing 1080 rounds each) for about $2500.

 

Still, if ammo cost is not a big concern for you, and you want a potent long range capability, I'd say .308 is the way to go.

Edited by Jim Digriz
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Another big advantage of 5.45 is mags. A lot of surplus 5.45 mags for $10 without shipping. Most are great quality polymer mags.

 

7.62x39 you're stuck with Bulgarian circle 10(waffle mags). $20 without shipping IF you're very lucky. I see them go regularly for closer to $30 a mag. Else you've got steel mags. TONS of those. $10 is easy there. Just have to be more careful. Usually won't find these new.

 

If it's my go-to rifle I like to have 10 mags. At least.

 

Disadvantage of a 5.45 is availability of the Saiga's. Most places are still out of stock.

 

I just bought one from this guy: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=194546917

I'd jump on it RIGHT NOW if you want a 5.45. Heck even if you are unsure it's not like the prices on these will go down...

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...the 762x39 round is effective against wood, cinderblock, and some video showed BRICK...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDXJQ

 

Yep.

 

I really wish I could find the beginning of this test video, instead of it starting, (as posted on youtube), at the very end of the AK, (7.62x39), tests. Annoying.

 

I vote 7.62x39. The smaller calibers don't penetrate cover worth a damn and I prefer other rifle designs, (M-14/M1-A), for .308.

 

If I had the extra cash, I'd pick up a SGL31, cause 5.45x39 is a fun caliber to shoot. It'd never be my "go to" choice, (for serious work), though.

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I just did some quick viewing of the 22lr ak's. I think i will stay with my tried and true 10/22. man the cost of the GSG and some plastic parts for about a 7 pound lr or the bulky look of the arms corp. i think not. I would rather spend the money on ammo for the 7.62 or the saiga 308 or more 6.5 x 55 ammo or..........you get the picture.

 

I think the 7.62 is the way to go lots of decent ammo good enough to get the job done for a fair prices. Mags (steel) cheap and available. rounds is capable of performing various tasks, plinking, self defense, hunting at ranges out to 300 yards. What not to like. I think of the choices you had referenced in the beginning it is the best all round weapon. Now have you even thought of the S12? Hmmmmmm.... stay away from the light.

 

Great video Post as it helps to real life demonstrate the usefullness of the 7.62.

 

I have the .223 as a back up of sorts. I figured if things were bad couldn't hurt to have a reliable weapon that would take advantage of a caliber that should be uber common to commandeer.

Edited by leadslinger
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...

Great video Post as it helps to real life demonstrate the usefullness of the 7.62...

 

Definitely. It also shows the limitations of 5.56x45; even the M-249 SAW couldn't penetrate brick/block walls nearly as easily as the AK chambered in 7.62x39.

 

...I have the .223 as a back up of sorts. I figured if things were bad couldn't hurt to have a reliable weapon that would take advantage of a caliber that should be uber common to commandeer.

 

True, it's not a bad weapon to have. I figure that if things get so bad that I run out of what ammo I have for my rifles, and all I can easily find is 5.56, I should be able to acquire a weapon to fire it as well, (on the ground nearby perhaps).

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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How the fuck is it (5.56) going to be "uber available" WTF do you internet commandos think would happen if shit did hit the fan? Do you think the military is going to have fucking handout stations or something? I don't fucking get it. It's retarded, childish fucking internet commando thought process that leads to that sort of thought.

 

 

The ammo available will be the ammo you have. You can have 100,000 rounds and all the tactical gear you want stashed, you can't take it all, and even if your fat ass takes some of it, you'll probably get shot by some random person you never even saw with a .30-06 or shit, even a .22lr and then all your gear now belongs to someone else.

 

 

 

I wish I could smack ever internet SHTF commando in the fucking face. The posts never make sense and are always based on some fantasy scenario. Get god damn real.

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Things that matter to me:

* Accurate

* Ammo availability. Cost of ammo is not *much* of a problem, I don't expect to be shooting crazy amounts, but once in awhile.

* Quality magazines, don't want things that will break.

 

 

I like how everyone just rattles off their favorite caliber, though there is also some good advice here.

 

Accuracy: 7.62x39 has most difficult external ballistics, with the highest hold-over at 300 yards. In general it is noticeably less accurate than the other rifle calibers at 100 yards and definitely at 200, but it can definitely effectively engage man-sized targets at those ranges. .308 is really the only caliber that delivers significant energy past 400 yards.

 

Ammo availability: .223, .308 are very very common domestic calibers and you can always find this ammunition in Walmart, sporting goods stores and anywhere else that sells ammo. Perhaps more important is the breadth of choices in these calibers, with several good choices for match-quality ammunition, self defense ammunition, and affordable surplus and new Russian factory ammunition for plinking. 7.62x39 is very nearly as common, I pretty much always see it Walmart though fewer choices there - you can find some pretty good cartridges online, just not as many choices as with the domestics. 5.45 has almost no domestic production and you will have to order it online, but it is very inexpensive. It has very few practical choices for most people.

 

Magazines: This is where the domestic calibers (.223 and .308) fall down. Magazines are more expensive ($35-$40) and many are of inferior quality. 5.45 and 7.62x39 (with bullet guide) can use surplus magazines for as little as $10 for some good quality magazines. I like to have lots of magazines so this is a huge factor for me.

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How the fuck is it (5.56) going to be "uber available" WTF do you internet commandos think would happen if shit did hit the fan? Do you think the military is going to have fucking handout stations or something? I don't fucking get it. It's retarded, childish fucking internet commando thought process that leads to that sort of thought.

 

 

The ammo available will be the ammo you have. You can have 100,000 rounds and all the tactical gear you want stashed, you can't take it all, and even if your fat ass takes some of it, you'll probably get shot by some random person you never even saw with a .30-06 or shit, even a .22lr and then all your gear now belongs to someone else.

 

 

 

I wish I could smack ever internet SHTF commando in the fucking face. The posts never make sense and are always based on some fantasy scenario. Get god damn real.

 

I usually keep my cool on these forums but....take a midol and change your manpon. chillax its not our fault your mangina is acting up.

 

What happened? you get bored of sitting around picking your belly button clean for youre lint collection ....Or better yet.... did the fact the youre supply of "enzyte" work and youre still under sized.

 

I will gladly meet in person to discuss the issue face to face.

 

Oh yeah i will bring the step ladder to help you get over your Napoleon complex.

Edited by leadslinger
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...

Magazines: This is where the domestic calibers (.223 and .308) fall down. Magazines are more expensive ($35-$40) and many are of inferior quality. 5.45 and 7.62x39 (with bullet guide) can use surplus magazines for as little as $10 for some good quality magazines. I like to have lots of magazines so this is a huge factor for me.

(emphasis mine)

 

Imo it should be a "huge factor" for everybody; it's pretty damn important to have quality, reliable magazines for your weapons. I've got ~15 mags, (mix of combloc steel and Bulgarian (10)'s ), for each of my 7.62x39 rifles.

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So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

 

Let's do the math. For the sake of comparison, I will do Saiga 5.45 vs. SGL 31, but I don't expect it would be much different no matter which of the intermediate calibers we compare.

 

- Rifle: $320.

- New K-Var stock set: $100. (One could use Tapco furniture, but the purpose of this exercise is to see if we could build an _equivalent_ gun for significantly less.

- FCG: $30.

- Bullet guide: $30.

- Standard AK gas tube: $30.

- Handguard retainer: $30. ($85 if you go Dinzag). However, the handguard retainer will be inferior in both looks and function unless you pull off the front sight block and gas block to put one on - a lot of trouble, not to mention that most people simply will not be up to this job.

- Threaded front sight block: $70.

- AK 74 muzzle brake: $20.

- Trigger guard: $25, but we won't count this in the total since you can use the factory one. However, it will look and be inferior to the SGL setup, which has the trigger guard as one unit with the mag catch assembly.

- New paint job: $50 for a quality one? But, as this is not strictly necessary, we won't count this either. Just pointing out again that the final product will probably be inferior.

- Since we will have to obtain these parts at different vendors, we must add at least $30 in shipping (probably ought to be more).

- I had to buy various tools that I didn't have for Saiga conversions, but we'll leave these out too, since (as I rationalized it to my wife) these tools could be used for other kinds of projects around the house too.

 

Final price: $660. Cheapest SGL 31 is $779, so you've saved $119, if you didn't spend money on any of the extra things I mentioned. You might could save even more by using used parts, but again, the SGL is completely NEW. A rifle made of used parts is not as good as an SGL. And it still has holes in the receiver that the SGL lacks, has screws in various places instead of rivets, and sports a worse paint job. Lastly, how much is it worth to spare oneself additional time and effort?

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

 

 

Thanks for doing the math. I'm lazy. Proves a saiga is cheaper than arsenal

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How the fuck is it (5.56) going to be "uber available" WTF do you internet commandos think would happen if shit did hit the fan? Do you think the military is going to have fucking handout stations or something? I don't fucking get it. It's retarded, childish fucking internet commando thought process that leads to that sort of thought.

 

 

The ammo available will be the ammo you have. You can have 100,000 rounds and all the tactical gear you want stashed, you can't take it all, and even if your fat ass takes some of it, you'll probably get shot by some random person you never even saw with a .30-06 or shit, even a .22lr and then all your gear now belongs to someone else.

 

 

 

I wish I could smack ever internet SHTF commando in the fucking face. The posts never make sense and are always based on some fantasy scenario. Get god damn real.

i usually keep my cool on these forums but you sir are a grade "A" cock smoker. I will gladly give you my phone number and address to meet in person to let you try. Hell i will even meet you half way.

 

Ol t3 don't mince his words. :rolleyes: Of course he never mentions what his plan would be. I guess, come TEOTWAWKI, he'll just beat everybody to death with his bare hands. I'm sure that'll work... after all, we're all just a bunch of internet fatasses, right? :lol:

 

If you call him out, bring a camera, man.

 

:Johnboy:

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

 

Let's do the math. For the sake of comparison, I will do Saiga 5.45 vs. SGL 31, but I don't expect it would be much different no matter which of the intermediate calibers we compare.

 

- Rifle: $320.

- New K-Var stock set: $100. (One could use Tapco furniture, but the purpose of this exercise is to see if we could build an _equivalent_ gun for significantly less.

- FCG: $30.

- Bullet guide: $30.

- Standard AK gas tube: $30.

- Handguard retainer: $30. ($85 if you go Dinzag). However, the handguard retainer will be inferior in both looks and function unless you pull off the front sight block and gas block to put one on - a lot of trouble, not to mention that most people simply will not be up to this job.

- Threaded front sight block: $70.

- AK 74 muzzle brake: $20.

- Trigger guard: $25, but we won't count this in the total since you can use the factory one. However, it will look and be inferior to the SGL setup, which has the trigger guard as one unit with the mag catch assembly.

- New paint job: $50 for a quality one? But, as this is not strictly necessary, we won't count this either. Just pointing out again that the final product will probably be inferior.

- Since we will have to obtain these parts at different vendors, we must add at least $30 in shipping (probably ought to be more).

- I had to buy various tools that I didn't have for Saiga conversions, but we'll leave these out too, since (as I rationalized it to my wife) these tools could be used for other kinds of projects around the house too.

 

Final price: $660. Cheapest SGL 31 is $779, so you've saved $119, if you didn't spend money on any of the extra things I mentioned. You might could save even more by using used parts, but again, the SGL is completely NEW. A rifle made of used parts is not as good as an SGL. And it still has holes in the receiver that the SGL lacks, has screws in various places instead of rivets, and sports a worse paint job. Lastly, how much is it worth to spare oneself additional time and effort?

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

 

 

Thanks for doing the math. I'm lazy. Proves a saiga is cheaper than arsenal

 

Barely, and that's only for 5.45. SGL21s are ~$100 less expensive than '31s. ;)

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So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

 

Let's do the math. For the sake of comparison, I will do Saiga 5.45 vs. SGL 31, but I don't expect it would be much different no matter which of the intermediate calibers we compare.

 

- Rifle: $320.

- New K-Var stock set: $100. (One could use Tapco furniture, but the purpose of this exercise is to see if we could build an _equivalent_ gun for significantly less.

- FCG: $30.

- Bullet guide: $30.

- Standard AK gas tube: $30.

- Handguard retainer: $30. ($85 if you go Dinzag). However, the handguard retainer will be inferior in both looks and function unless you pull off the front sight block and gas block to put one on - a lot of trouble, not to mention that most people simply will not be up to this job.

- Threaded front sight block: $70.

- AK 74 muzzle brake: $20.

- Trigger guard: $25, but we won't count this in the total since you can use the factory one. However, it will look and be inferior to the SGL setup, which has the trigger guard as one unit with the mag catch assembly.

- New paint job: $50 for a quality one? But, as this is not strictly necessary, we won't count this either. Just pointing out again that the final product will probably be inferior.

- Since we will have to obtain these parts at different vendors, we must add at least $30 in shipping (probably ought to be more).

- I had to buy various tools that I didn't have for Saiga conversions, but we'll leave these out too, since (as I rationalized it to my wife) these tools could be used for other kinds of projects around the house too.

 

Final price: $660. Cheapest SGL 31 is $779, so you've saved $119, if you didn't spend money on any of the extra things I mentioned. You might could save even more by using used parts, but again, the SGL is completely NEW. A rifle made of used parts is not as good as an SGL. And it still has holes in the receiver that the SGL lacks, has screws in various places instead of rivets, and sports a worse paint job. Lastly, how much is it worth to spare oneself additional time and effort?

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

 

 

Thanks for doing the math. I'm lazy. Proves a saiga is cheaper than arsenal

 

Barely, and that's only for 5.45. SGL21s are ~$100 less expensive than '31s. ;)

 

Also you gotta think when i bought my saiga you could still get them for $240. So its a bit different for me i guess. lol.

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So buy a saiga do the conversion yourself and you can taylor it to your style for about 200 bucks cheaper than buying an arsenal gun.

 

Let's do the math. For the sake of comparison, I will do Saiga 5.45 vs. SGL 31, but I don't expect it would be much different no matter which of the intermediate calibers we compare.

 

- Rifle: $320.

- New K-Var stock set: $100. (One could use Tapco furniture, but the purpose of this exercise is to see if we could build an _equivalent_ gun for significantly less.

- FCG: $30.

- Bullet guide: $30.

- Standard AK gas tube: $30.

- Handguard retainer: $30. ($85 if you go Dinzag). However, the handguard retainer will be inferior in both looks and function unless you pull off the front sight block and gas block to put one on - a lot of trouble, not to mention that most people simply will not be up to this job.

- Threaded front sight block: $70.

- AK 74 muzzle brake: $20.

- Trigger guard: $25, but we won't count this in the total since you can use the factory one. However, it will look and be inferior to the SGL setup, which has the trigger guard as one unit with the mag catch assembly.

- New paint job: $50 for a quality one? But, as this is not strictly necessary, we won't count this either. Just pointing out again that the final product will probably be inferior.

- Since we will have to obtain these parts at different vendors, we must add at least $30 in shipping (probably ought to be more).

- I had to buy various tools that I didn't have for Saiga conversions, but we'll leave these out too, since (as I rationalized it to my wife) these tools could be used for other kinds of projects around the house too.

 

Final price: $660. Cheapest SGL 31 is $779, so you've saved $119, if you didn't spend money on any of the extra things I mentioned. You might could save even more by using used parts, but again, the SGL is completely NEW. A rifle made of used parts is not as good as an SGL. And it still has holes in the receiver that the SGL lacks, has screws in various places instead of rivets, and sports a worse paint job. Lastly, how much is it worth to spare oneself additional time and effort?

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

 

 

Thanks for doing the math. I'm lazy. Proves a saiga is cheaper than arsenal

 

 

Yep! Paid $308 plus fees for my 7.62x39. Then $125 to convert it.

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How the fuck is it (5.56) going to be "uber available" WTF do you internet commandos think would happen if shit did hit the fan? Do you think the military is going to have fucking handout stations or something? I don't fucking get it. It's retarded, childish fucking internet commando thought process that leads to that sort of thought.

 

 

The ammo available will be the ammo you have. You can have 100,000 rounds and all the tactical gear you want stashed, you can't take it all, and even if your fat ass takes some of it, you'll probably get shot by some random person you never even saw with a .30-06 or shit, even a .22lr and then all your gear now belongs to someone else.

 

 

 

I wish I could smack ever internet SHTF commando in the fucking face. The posts never make sense and are always based on some fantasy scenario. Get god damn real.

 

I usually keep my cool on these forums but....take a midol and change your manpon. chillax its not our fault your mangina is acting up.

 

What happened? you get bored of sitting around picking your belly button clean for youre lint collection ....Or better yet.... did the fact the youre supply of "enzyte" work and youre still under sized.

 

I will gladly meet in person to discuss the issue face to face.

 

Oh yeah i will bring the step ladder to help you get over your Napoleon complex.

 

 

You might just be the worst ever at this.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is there is always this irrational conclusion that during a "SHTF" scenario, the military and police are just going to be air-dropping cases of 5.56 or handing it out or something. The reality is that if something like that happenend (shtf) martial law would be declared and your firearms would probably be confiscated (or, they'd try at the least), there isn't going to be this "re-supply" of 5.56. The only way I can begin to understand this "uber available" concept is when I put myself in an internet commando fantasy land mindframe.

 

 

The ammo you have is the ammo you'll use. Unless you shoot somebody else and take their stuff. The "retreat-ist/survivalist" mindset has really taken off on the internet, and you'll find (like on this very site) video after video of some dude who couldnt run 1/4 mile (fat) wearing all this tactical gear he bought, shooting shit. Now, that's all good if its just for fun but, when you read their posts, usually they have some sort "shtf fantasy plan" that involves all their gear and shit somehow making a difference.

 

 

 

I'm rambling but whatever. I'm sorry you got so worked up leadslinger. Don't think I couldn't rip your arms off your body though, I could.

Edited by t3mac21
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Thanks for doing the math. I'm lazy. Proves a saiga is cheaper than arsenal

 

 

Yep! Paid $308 plus fees for my 7.62x39. Then $125 to convert it.

 

It's not equivalent in features to an SGL. But some people don't want the extra features, and they do well with buying a Saiga instead. For myself, I found that what I was happy with at first, I was not satisfied with later (especially in terms of muzzle attachments).

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I have numerous Saiga's...all converted..... in all calibers Saiga is offered here in the US.

The 7.62X39 is far and away the caliber of choice according to all my guest here at the ranch. I provide the rifles along with the hog hunts here so I get a lot of feedback. Have for years frankly. The 7.62X39 has more one shot knockdown power and no noticeable difference in recoil from the others (outside the S12 shooting 1oz slugs)....

 

As for the EOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario warriors....all I can say is I have been in the real shit. I carried a .45 pistol and usually about 200 rounds 5.56MM maximum. I was much more focused on food/water and my health. Spent more time on keeping my feet from rotting off than spraying rounds all over hell. I will say survival is mainly two things.....

Those in shape and capable of moving quickly and those who keep themselves fed and hydrated will win. In a firefight I rarely used up more than 50-60 rounds and it was over.

 

My "go to " weapon today is a Saiga 7.62X39 with a EOTech red dot (old guy eyeballs :) )and a Surefire light. 30 rounds of YUGO MilSurp (corrosive is easy as hell to clean and I do not understand why some on this board makes it a big deal when it is not)...I have 3 more 30 round mags loaded always available. My focus has been on emergency power/water here at the ranch and I have accomplished that. I can self sustain for years here.

 

Finally and my unsolicited humble opinion.....you guys who are gonna rip each others arms off and whoop ass.....STFU.

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