BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) I want to put a quad rail on my saiga and mount a scope on top so that I have a scout rifle. I played with a mini-14 rifle with a scout mounted scope on it and I loved it and I want to do the same thing for my rifle. Has anyone tried this? Are they steady? Edited October 11, 2010 by BrandonfromTampa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t3mac21 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 You could put a "scout scope" on your saiga but, it doesn't really meet any of the criteria for a "scout rifle". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) OKay, I see what you mean. Wikipedia rocks. But I want the forward mounted scope so that I can get on target quickly with my Saiga, so what are the drawbacks of a quadrail mounted scope? Edited October 11, 2010 by BrandonfromTampa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t3mac21 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 OKay, I see what you mean. Wikipedia rocks. But I want the forward mounted scope so that I can get on target quickly with my Saiga, so what are the drawbacks of a quadrail mounted scope? The main drawback IMO is looking like a tacticool indoor retail center ninja. I'd go with a nice quick red dot. Or, if you really need the magnification of a scout scope, you could look into ultimaks gas tube rail. Although, I'm always skeptical of gas tube or dust cover mounted optics. I think the factory designed side mount works best. as far as quad rails go though.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesavery22 54 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) [quot name=BrandonfromTampa' timestamp='1286833191' post='560215] ... [/quot] The main drawback IMO is looking like a tacticool indoor retail center ninja. I'd go with a nice quick red dot. Or, if you really need the magnification of a scout scope, you could look into ultimaks gas tube rail. Although, I'm always skeptical of gas tube or dust cover mounted optics. I think the factory designed side mount works best. as far as quad rails go though.... [/img]http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z171/t3mac21/hahahachinese.jpg[/img] Ultimak's scout mount is one of the most solid platforms for optics on the AK. Just because side rails haven been proven for a longer time doesn't mean they are the best option. There are a lot more variables between the barrel and a side rail mounted optic when compared to the Ultimak. Ultimak you have barrel + ultimak + optic. Pretty simple. Side rail you have barrel + barrel trunnion + receiver + side rail + side rail mount + then finally optic... These are all pressed or pinned together with literally tons of force. But still, if you have the option, KISS... Not to mention the commonly available side mount optics are sub-par compared to US made optics. Kobra's may work great but I doubt anyone will argue a T-1 is far superior. Just more expensive. To the OP, what do you want a "quad rail" for? Whats your goal here? Someone at warriortalk(think Suarez or maybe Fuller, don't remember who) said the Ultimak lower railed HG helped with barrel harmonics on a .308 Saiga. I don't know if that makes sense just because I have little to no experience in that area but I don't think it matters to a 7.62x39 discussion since the distances where it'd matter are outside the performance limits of the x39 anyway. The standard HG + HG retainer is nice and slim. That big ultimak lower hg chunk adds a lot of bulk. Is the bulk worth whatever you want to clamp onto that rail? Edited October 11, 2010 by jamesavery22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Yeah the Mall ninja effect is a factor, but I want to put some crap on my rifle. A man who lived through a shtf situation in Argentina wrote about his experiences. The article was posted on The High Road in their situations and tactics section. He said to put a light on your rifle. He said it comes up more than you think. I put a flashlight in my weak hand, turned it on and got into a firing position with my saiga, and even in a room with no light but the flashlight, I could see my sights just as clear as day, silhouetted against my target. I think that is pretty cool. I also want a tactical sling. They improve off-hand accuracy, and allow you to carry your rifle with you when your hands are full. Whenever I have both hands full and a traditional slung rifle it always end up around my wrist, and that tends to make people nervous. I also think that might offset the change in balance caused by the forward mounted scope. A tactical can opener mounted on the right side would allow me to open my Chef Boyardee without disrupting my sight picture. I don't know the exact definition of a mall ninja, but for many it seems to be any civilian who wants a battle rifle that he's probably never going to use. If that's the definition, then I guess I qualify. I have a deer rifle that I love very much. She's pretty basic too. I have a composite stock and a cheap scope, and she kills deer beautifully. I tried putting a bipod on her, but I just couldn't stand the sight of it. It's nice to have for the range but I don't take it into the woods with me. I also have a squirrel gun. My grandfather's old Mossberg 151m-b. I use these guns. My Saiga, like my Sig p239 will probably never be used. It actually has less of a chance of being used than my carry gun. But she'll be a blast to shoot; and if trouble ever arrives, she'll be waiting. For me it's about being ready, even though I know it's probably not going to happen. The Saiga I'm putting together is purpose built to handle a scenario that hopefully isn't coming. So aside from gun snobs looking down their noses at me, what are the disadvantages of what I'm trying to do? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) All that being said, I'll still admit I'd rather not have quad, but I don't know how to mount a light and tactical sling without it. It seems like the most efficient way. I think I could get two rails for around forty bucks. Can I put these on my original handguard. That would be nice. It would make the rails lower profile and a little less obviously mall ninja. Edited October 11, 2010 by BrandonfromTampa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesavery22 54 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Ultimak scout mount + sm-ocg/SMQ-OCG + standard hg and lower hg retainer That will give you a platform to mount a optic, a light mount, and a sling mount. edit--- geez took me a while to find a good example: Again, not mine. Grey Man's from warriortalk: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=23822&highlight=pictures&page=136 Edited October 11, 2010 by jamesavery22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 That is neat, but I am confused about something: The ultimak and the quad are both picatinny rails so why do I have better options with the ultimak? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesavery22 54 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 what quad rail are you talking about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) The UTG or Surefire from Carolina shooting supply. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-431/SAIGA-RIFLE-QUAD-SGM/Detail but nevermind, the question before. I misunderstood. You were talking about the side rail scope mount like the ones my uncles and cousins have on their rifles. I don't like it because I can't touch my cheek to the stock with it like that and I don't feel that I shoot very well, and because I want the forward mounted scope. Thanks for your help man. I appreciate everything. Edited October 12, 2010 by BrandonfromTampa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SAIGA-Genesis 171 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 The UTG or Surefire from Carolina shooting supply. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-431/SAIGA-RIFLE-QUAD-SGM/Detail Unless there's a better one out there, maybe something a little more subtle Have I missed something. Is that thing on top that looks like a rail not a rail. It's a single rail (Though ultimak makes a lower tri-rail that works with it). The difference between the Ultimak and others, though, is that it's not only solid aluminum, but it replaces the stock gas tube so the weight addition to the rifle is minimal. The UTG is aluminum, but a heavy addition; the Surefire is plastic and pretty light, but it doesn't have the strength and durability of aluminum. Also, you can co-witness a micro-dot with the iron sights if you use an Ultimak. That way if the optic fails, you can still use the iron sights through the optic. I own a UTG rail that I'm probably going to sell off; it does make the rifle noticeably heavier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) ...You were talking about the side rail scope mount like the ones my uncles and cousins have on their rifles. I don't like it because I can't touch my cheek to the stock with it like that... Whether or not you can get a good cheek-weld with a side-mounted scope really depends on the specific model of side-mount and scope you choose. It helps to go with true Russkie equipment. Here's a few pics of mine... As you can probably tell from the pics; this scope mounts nice and low and you can get a very comfortable cheek-weld using it, (hardly any different than using irons). I agree that the side-mount/scope combinations that leave the scope several inches above the receiver are uncomfortable and impractical. There's a few recent ones in the pics sticky that're just plain ridiculous. ymmv. Edited October 12, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 There's a few recent ones in the pics sticky that're just plain ridiculous. Holy shit. I just had to go look out of curiosity. You weren't kidding.... I am guessing it's this lady's rifle: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t3mac21 1 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Is it at all possible to discuss any aspects of this rifle system without "SHTF" coming up? I find it disturbing yet mildy hillarious. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrandonfromTampa 1 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Well, T3mac21, in my case, no. I bought the rifle for those types of situations, and possibly for hog hunting, but I think I'll just use my M96 for that. I want a rifle that is useful when things go wrong, one that covers everything from riots and bad weather, to total economic collapse, to a fun day of plinking. I think a lot of people bought these rifles for that reason. If you bought your rifle for a different reason than you should modify it accordingly. For instance, if you wanted to own an example of the firearm that conquered the world, than you should put wood furniture on it, and keep it as bare bones as possible. I'd like to have one of those too, but I don't have the financial means to own and modify several saigas. I can only have one right now, and I want the one that does the most stuff. That fits in with what I'm doing with my gun collection in general. Right now, I'm trying to buy versatile, practical guns that fill multiple and important roles. That's why I bought a SigP239. It's fun to take to range, I can defend my home with it, and I can carry it. I could have bought an M9, a 1911, and a Kahr K9. Each would perform its function better. M9s are more accurate. 1911's are more powerful. Kahr K9's are easier to carry. But I wanted a gun that was good all around because I didn't have three thousand dollars to spend on handguns. So I bought a used compact 9mm from gunbroker for $499. The finish was a little worn from carry but it functions beautifully. Now I want a rifle that is good all around, whether it's light or dark, whether I'm mobile or stationary, whether the target is near or far, and whether I'm defending something important to me or just knocking over cans out in the woods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t3mac21 1 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) I know, and you're right, a million other people from the internet bought one or something similar (and a chest rig) for the same reason. I just find it silly is all. but, from one AK enthusiast to another, just have fun shooting the darn thing. Edited October 12, 2010 by t3mac21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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