Question about SP vs HP....Brown Bear 62 grain

[swells08 128]

Hello forum,

 

What is your experiences with using these rounds for hunting? Brown Bear 62 grain HP and SP in 223. In Michigan it is legal to hunt deer and am aware of the debate regarding if you should or shouldn't so I don't want to discuss caliber for deer. I want to know how reliable SP's perform in a converted 223 with Dinzag bullet guide compared to HP's.

 

I also wondered if the Brown Bear HP's would be effective as compared to SP's...I have never shot SP's but have read they would make a difference with proper shot placement as compared to HP.

 

On a side note on a human bad guy if SP's are reliable would they be better in a hd or shtf issue than HP's?

 

I greatly appreciate constructive information regarding these questions.

[superA 289]

Hard to find data on the Russian 223 rounds, a couple tests on fmj wolf are about all I've seen. Look at

the construction of the round. 223 is plenty for deer but I would go ahead a drop a few bucks on some good ammo

if I was hunting with it.

[swells08 128]

Hard to find data on the Russian 223 rounds, a couple tests on fmj wolf are about all I've seen. Look at

the construction of the round. 223 is plenty for deer but I would go ahead a drop a few bucks on some good ammo

if I was hunting with it.

I guess the fault in my thinking was that if I found a round that was:

A.) In-expensive

B:) Good for HD and Hunting

 

I would stockpile about 1,000+ rounds

 

If SP or HP is effective for hunting I would think it would be effective on Bad guys too...just wondering what the cumulative wealth of gun and ammo guru's here had for experience or knowledge.

 

My Saiga likes the 62 grain bthp from brown bear...but I have read that the HP fragments more than expands, as the SP is said to do a better job.

[Lcpl Martin 4]

I would stay away from HP, SP would be a much better choice. I reload 70gr SP for my saiga for deer works very well.

[superA 289]

A lot of the Russian HP rounds do not fragment from what I understand, based on the bullet construction. If I was looking for a stock up ammo I would get M193 or M855. You can take game with these if you had to. It's probably not

legal to since they are FMJ, they are good defensive rounds as well. I did try to find info back when I had an AR

on the 62 grain HP's because they shot well out of my rifle. You may look at Privi and see what they offer in a SP.

[Salmonking 149]

I guess the fault in my thinking was that if I found a round that was:

A.) In-expensive

B:) Good for HD and Hunting

 

I would stockpile about 1,000+ rounds

 

You just described 7.62x39.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Salmonking

[Bean.223 365]

My only problem with Brown Bear HP is that my Saiga doesn't quit like feeding it. I'm hoping another couple of hundred round through the rifle will fix that.

[swells08 128]

My only problem with Brown Bear HP is that my Saiga doesn't quit like feeding it. I'm hoping another couple of hundred round through the rifle will fix that.

Mine eats it like a fat kid eats cake, but I want to know if I should go with SP or HP...lol

[christcorp 26]

DJ; Go with the Soft Point. Hollow Points are good at slow speeds. Hence, hand gun rounds. At high speeds, they either fragment or they clog and basically become FMJ. Soft Points on the other hand was designed for deeper penetration and slower expansion. The overwhelming majority of hunting calibers use Soft Point for hunting. A human is approximately the size of a deer. The .223 is traveling at approximately 3000 fps. A .308 or 30-06 travels slightly slower @ 2800 fps. But the 308 and 30-06 are twice the bullet weight and mass. They have the potential of penetrating better. Go with the 62 or 75 grain soft point. It won't penetrate as well as the heavier 308 or 30-06, but it will do the job. If you consider "Bad Guys" the same as hunting deer, (WHICH I DO), then go with soft points. Hollow Points in .223 are great for targets. They can be more accurate and they are cheap to make. But in the hunting world, which we do a lot of here in Wyoming, Soft point is King. Deep penetration and controlled expansion. Humans are Deer. Go with the Soft Point. We can't hunt deer here in wyoming with .223, but I have 200 rounds of soft point specifically for home defense. Winchester and Federal both make a really good Soft Point in 62 and 64 grains; respectively. If you want to go on the cheap, then get some Silver-Bear 62 grain Soft Point. You can get some 75-77 grain bullets, but most will be Hollow Points; and most won't like the 1:9 to 1:10 rifling of the Saiga. Me personally, if I was you, I'd buy a bunch of the silver-bear 62 grain soft point, or similar such as herders. Use these for people. If you're serious about hunting, get a couple of boxes of the winchester or federal for that. Not like you'll do a lot of deer hunting with .223.

[superA 289]

My only problem with Brown Bear HP is that my Saiga doesn't quit like feeding it. I'm hoping another couple of hundred round through the rifle will fix that.

Mine eats it like a fat kid eats cake, but I want to know if I should go with SP or HP...lol

 

 

 

For strictly hunting, soft points. I don't know that the Russian rounds preform as a true SP should. For SD

it's no contest, the heavy hollow points like the 75 TAP is devastating as a fragmenting round. For SD needs you don't need to worry about the twist rate of your barrel as those ranges will be close enough not to matter. It's accuracy at extended ranges where twist rate comes into play. For hunting do yourself a favor and buy a box

of good SP's.

[swells08 128]

So I am thinking 62 grain Brown Bear in SP is what I'm lookin for for hunting, would the HP be better SD possible SHTF ammo?

[superA 289]

So I am thinking 62 grain Brown Bear in SP is what I'm lookin for for hunting, would the HP be better SD possible SHTF ammo?

 

 

 

I don't think the HP will fragment or expand.

[Afrikaner 2]

Soft Points. Much better for hunting and SD...HP have, well, disappointed me in the past.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Verlore Boer

[superA 289]

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

 

 

 

About 1/2 way down it discusses 223 ammo for defensive purposes.

[The Sarge 34]

SP....no doubt.....I see many wound channels in hogs...SP makes a massive wound channel....hollow points frag on you.

[Lcpl Martin 4]

Glad to see no one is screaming that 223 is to small for deer.

[The Sarge 34]

No. You just need to hit where you are aiming with a 5.56 and it will drop a 200lb deer. It is when you don't there is issues of a wounded animal. I never recommend nor utilize any HP ammo for hunting.

[swells08 128]

Glad to see no one is screaming that 223 is to small for deer.

I pre-qualified that in my op about "The debate"...lol If I had a 30-30 or 308 or whatever I would use that, however I have and am very handy with my Saiga 223...so I am looking at buying softpoints...do the do well through the car the deer might be uhh hum driving with effectiveness as well?

 

P.S

I have a dinzag bullet guide will this break off the tip causing jamming issues?

Edited October 20, 2010 by DJ Big Dog

[choctaw 1]

Glad to see no one is screaming that 223 is to small for deer.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised too. Apparently people on this board (unlike so many others on the net) understand that a well placed 223 will kill better than a misplaced 3,000,000 Super-D-Duper Magnum.

 

Its all about shot placement and bullet selection.

[superA 289]

Glad to see no one is screaming that 223 is to small for deer.

I pre-qualified that in my op about "The debate"...lol If I had a 30-30 or 308 or whatever I would use that, however I have and am very handy with my Saiga 223...so I am looking at buying softpoints...do the do well through the car the deer might be uhh hum driving with effectiveness as well?

 

P.S

I have a dinzag bullet guide will this break off the tip causing jamming issues?

 

 

 

I wouldn't think that you would have feed issues. I have heard about the soft lead on the tip causing

potential problems for AR's over periods of extended firing without cleaning but I have not

personally had any problems with that or seen it. Get some 64 grain power points from Winchester.

[Lcpl Martin 4]

I have had no problems with SP in my Dinzag bullet guide.

[swells08 128]

Thanks for all the info...62-64 grain sp is in line. I might get some hp for 2 legged bad guys in a shtf stash...

[csspecs 1,987]

I only buy SP. Only thing that makes the .223 really shine.

 

I have collected unexpanded .223 HPs before that had gone through water jugs.

[swells08 128]

Anyone here use the brown bear sp with any results?...

Edited October 22, 2010 by DJ Big Dog

[christcorp 26]

I prefer the silver bear. Same manufacturer. Same weight bullet. Same ballistics. Instead of lacquered steel case, it is a "Zinc Coated" steel case. Feeds much better. I always use the silver bear over the brown bear. I use silver bear in my pistols like my 9x18 cz-82. Nothing wrong with the brown bear; but for the same bullet, ballistics, and price, I prefer the zinc coated instead of lacquer.

[MD_Willington 11]

Works fine in my S223

[csspecs 1,987]

Anyone here use the brown bear sp with any results?...

 

 

Like range or hunting?

 

This is my 20 inch AR-15 with Brown Bear 62gr SP @ 100 yards

 

I've blown up many a milk jug with them. (not a huge boom but they do more then a FMJ)

 

[swells08 128]

Anyone here use the brown bear sp with any results?...

 

 

Like range or hunting?

 

This is my 20 inch AR-15 with Brown Bear 62gr SP @ 100 yards

 

I've blown up many a milk jug with them. (not a huge boom but they do more then a FMJ)

 

Thanks for the pic and stats...this is what I was looking for. Off to buy some SP ammo.