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BUYERS GUIDE: Which rail system should you choose


  

119 members have voted

  1. 1. Which rail system(s) have given your gun problems?

    • Halo
    • Mississippi Auto Arms (MAA)
      0
    • Chaos
    • UTG
    • Carolina Shooter's (CSS)
      0
    • Tapco
    • DPH Arms
      0
    • Kross
    • SGM (Surefire)
    • None of the above
  2. 2. Which rail system(s) have NOT given your gun problems?



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Hello ladies and gents. More and more threads are created asking "Which rail system?" or "Should I go with this rail system, or that one?" The purpose of this thread is to act like a buyers guide for people wanting to purchase a rail system and not worry if it will fail on them or cause their S12 problems. As more and more options come out we are seeing some problems being created from rail systems, whether it be a failing of the rail system(s) or the rail system(s) causing problems with the gun's reliability. Which one's are they? Well hopefully with this we'll find out while at the same time provide which rail system(s) work and is worth considering spending your hard earned money on. Hopefully we can get this stickied as long as good quality info get's posted in this thread.

 

Conditions: MUST READ BEFORE YOU POST ANY INFORMATION HERE

 

1) You must have owned/currently own the rail system(s) you are posting information about. You CANNOT post here-say information, or stuff you've researched on the net. THIS MUST BE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.

2) You must have shot a minimum of 200 rounds (ideally 500+) through your S12 with the particular rail system(s) you are posting about. A few mags through the gun does not provide a sufficient basis of testing for the particular rail system(s).

3) If you answer the poll to question #1 (with the exception of "None of the above") then you must post in the thread what problems you've had and were the problems fixed after removed/replaced the rail system(s), and also why you believe it was the rail system(s). Please also post at about what the round count was when the rail system(s) failed or began giving your S12 problems. We are looking for solid evidence contributing to the rail system and S12 problems. If you did a complete overhaul internally (such as enlarging gas ports, polishing internals, etc) and changed the rail system in the mean time, the rail system may not have been attributed to your problems. Understand?

4) If a particular rail system has done nothing but perform perfectly for you and held up to your expectations by all means post all the good info about it. Try to include what the round count is (with no exaggerations of course). But please refer to condition #1. No hear-say or net rumors please.

5) If you do decide to fill us in on the rail system(s) please include the type of abuse you have put it through (range plinking, training, safe queen, etc) and also attachments that have been on it, or if nothing has been mounted to the rail system. The more detailed the better.

6) Lastly, we're all adults here so try to keep the comments clean and professional. Remember we are trying to help future buyer's so they can make a well educated decision. :D

 

If you can't follow these instructions please don't post. That last thing we need for any of us (companies or buyers) to post mis information about rail systems. :angel:

 

FYI: The order of the polls have nothing to do with any kind of ranking system or what I think's best. They were entered as I thought of the brands.

 

WHERE TO BUY YOUR NEW RAIL SYSTEM(S):

 

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Halo Rail System

 

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Mississippi Auto Arms

 

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Chaos (Different variations)

 

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UTG

 

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Carolina Shooters Supply (Different variations)

 

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Tapco

 

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DPH Arms

 

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Kross (Different variations)

 

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SGM Surefire

 

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Edited by ErikTaylor
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I'll go first. For the duration of ownership of my S12 I have had on there MIssissippi Auto Arms quad rail. I shot well over 1000 rounds and it performed great. For the life of the rail it had a Burris Fast Fire mounted on top, a VFG underneath, and a surefire M95 on the right hand side. The majority of the use was range plinking, and about 95% of it was wally world birdshot, and the other 5% was a mix of 00 buck and 1" slugs. It didn't fail, loosen up, or cause my gun any problems ever. I would recommend it to anyone that want's a solid rail system. I just recently replaced it with a Chaos because I wanted a tri rail system since I am having HK sights welded on my S12, or the MAA would still be on mine. It was easy to install and uninstall. I will soon give a review of the Chaos when I receive it and test it.

Edited by ErikTaylor
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I put a DPH tri rail on my Saiga 12 as soon as I purchased it (not converted). I shot it in training and matches for several months before sending it to RedStick last year. I have been training with including re-qualification, and shooting matches with it all summer. I have had no function problems with my Saiga of any kind, so it obviously does not affect function. I currently have light and sling mounts attached to the rails. I have had a VFG attached also for some time and have since deleted it. I would estimate 2000 plus rounds, mostly shot, followed by buck, and very few slugs. I have noticed it was loose a couple times and tightened it back up.

 

I have ordered a Chaos extended quad rail with sights because I want to mount a red dot with back up sights. I hope I have the same reliability with Chaos I have enjoyed so far with the DPH. I look forward to reading of other's experience with Chaos.

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currently i have the UTG quad rail on my s-12. its nice because you dont have to remove factory sights, and it has 2 options for the top rail. one option goes about halfway down the dustcover, the other almost extends the length of the dustcover. i have a eotech mounted on it. the rail was easy to install, and hasnt loosened up on me. most of the ammo ive shot through it was wallyworld bulk stuff win and rem ammo(about 800 rds). for the price($89) it was great deal, but i like the looks of the halo, and chaos better...

 

ive recently bought two more saiga's and i have a halo quad and a chaos quad..havent installed them yet, but when i do i will be back to post my results. one thing i have noticed about the halo rail is that it is heavy compared to the chaos. and the halo was about $300 compared to the chaos at $130.

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I bought the UTG rail system and my 3 hole started to stovepipe after I installed the rail. I was like WTF? I then put in the gunfixer plug. Nothing, I polished the internals to a high shine, I mean flawless. Nothing but stovepipes. Different mags. Nothing. Tapped off the gasblock and drilled another gas port. Yeah no kidding. Nothing. I put in a weaker recoil spring. Nothing. All kinds of ammo. Nothing. Finally I was down to the last problem. Harmonics? I removed the UTG and fired it with no handguard. BINGO!!!! It shot %100 everything I put through it. I finally put a tapco handguard on there,''even though I think tapco is crap. It still shoots great!!!!

 

PS: UTG SUCKS!!!

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Wow. I really wanted to hate the UTG as I run Daniel Defense and Troy or Midwest Industries on all of my weapons....but.....I love it! With the Russian Dragunov style Saiga 12 stock I can either fold the cheekplate down and use irons no problem, or flip it up and use my optic with perfect alignment. I enjoy all the rail options and I can't complain about the looks. I can't see how anyone can have any problems using the UTG...and this is coming from a rifle snob ;)

 

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Edited by Kss_Waylander
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Wow. I really wanted to hate the UTG as I run Daniel Defense and Troy or Midwest Industries on all of my weapons....but.....I love it! With the Russian Dragunov style Saiga 12 stock I can either fold the cheekplate down and use irons no problem, or flip it up and use my optic with perfect alignment. I enjoy all the rail options and I can't complain about the looks. I can't see how anyone can have any problems using the UTG...and this is coming from a rifle snob ;)

 

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how hard is your UTG rail in comparison to your other rails? Ive noticed my Chaos rail doesn't seem to be nowhere near as hard as my Troy rail. i haven't heard anybody else say anything about the hardness of the chaos rail but personally i think its not very hard at all.(at least mine isn't). it got pretty chewed up by the cross bolt on a tasco red dot!! Ive had the same sight on and off my troy rail with NO marks at all! i considered that it could have been my fault but Ive compared them in several different ways and the chaos is defiantly not as hard as a Troy.

 

Don't get me wrong the chaos rail is awesome and I'm very happy with it. You just need to be mindful of what your doing b/c just slapping something on the rails could scratch em up pretty good. other than that i would say im pretty happy with the chaos quad rail. the worst thing i did was not order the rail and sights together. if you get the chaos rails get the sights too!!

 

ETA, i have about 500 rounds thru my S-12 since the adding the chaos rail and i am pretty rough on my Saiga, other than it being scratched up a bit it seems to be a great rail system.no problems with failures do to the rail.

Edited by big-J
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The SGM rail offers what I think is the best of both worlds. First, there is a rail far enough forward that I can mount a full size pistol grip/light combo and a 10 round magazine. Secondly, there is a smooth round area for a trap/skeet hand hold. very nice indeed.

 

I sold off my Tapco rail since I couldn't mount a full size fore grip and a 10 round magazine. It also required a long time to wiggle in the MD-20 drums with the Tapco rail.

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  • 4 weeks later...

hey peeps I have the UTG quad rail. Put it on and FTE. I also removed the top piece, and runs great 100%. The way the UTG clamps down on the weapon obstructs the gas tube im guessing. So instead of buying a new rail, this is wat i did. I went and spent $4.00 at ace hardware and bought a 1/8" piece of square aluminum, placed it between where the top piece bolts together in the grooves on each side and sinched it down. Its secure and no more FTE problems. I have the UTG qaud for my .223 also, and no problems at all with that setup. I like the rail, but I like figuring stuff out too. Hope this helps.

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I put the SGM aka Surefire tri-rail on my S12 when I first did the conversion, it has proven to be rock solid.

 

Never had a problem I would relate to the rail.

Hell it has ran almost flawlessly, every stoppage I've ever had, I've attributed to fouling in the gas chamber/puck, increasing the gas has always solved the problem.

 

Easily a couple thousand rounds through it, 2500+ by my best estimate.

Two or three boxes of Wally World's Federal bulk 7.5 for MD20 dumps and Hogans Alley fun/training, 30-45 Win Super X slugs at 50-75 yards, and several boxes of Win Super X 00, constitute my average range trip with the S12.

 

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  • 2 months later...

I have a Kross tri-rail. Its nice and light (I didn't notice any extra heft), solid construction, and looks great. The only problem that I had with it is when i first got it, recoil was making the screw that holds in on grind through the aluminum making it loose. Kross sent me a small piece of metal (free of charge) to fill the void. After that, it stayed secure and has been great. Well over 1,000 rounds.

 

I don't know if kross is still selling their rails however, there website is gone.

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I run Chaos quads on both of my S-12s. I started off with a SGM tri rail, and it worked well at first, but after a while I moved to a Chaos tri... then quad... then extended quad... Its great having so many options. The option is there to customize the design if needed as I did with the digital monster. The aluminum Cameron uses seems to take to welding well.

 

I've never had a complaint really. They hold up beautifuly.

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Ive got the CSS tri rail. Looks awesome, and Ive had no problems with it, but one thing you must know is that the rails do not work for anything that uses the single "post" type lock in. It must use the cross pin or an attachment that actually locks or tightens down on the rail. I found that out after I ordered a vertical grip that was supposed to lock with the "post", and it was useless.

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Have to go with chaos 100%. Cameron is a great guy to deal with. His products are made in america by a small business. All of his tri rails are made to adapt to any of the variations of upper rails he produces. The titan and nemesis he is coming out with in my opinion blow everything else away and are also adaptable to work with your current tri rail. the price and quality of the work is very good as well. having siad that I do have a utg on my regular ak and while it is pretty good for the price it is just not a chaos but there saiga 12 model might be alot better I don't know.

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I have the Chaos tri-rail, it's a very nice piece and fit my Saiga 12 perfect. My only complaint is that after about 500 rounds the main set screw came loose. I used locktite and let it dry for a few days before shooting but somehow it still worked its self loose. I removed the screw and re-applied some more loctite and now it's back snug. I'll be shooting a few more hundred rounds this week and see what happens.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The way the UTG clamps down on the weapon obstructs the gas tube im guessing.

 

The only thing that would obstruct gas flow is if this exaust port was blocked by some attachment.

 

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The UTG is made out of extruded aluminum. The gas-tube and barrel are made from heat-treated steel. Watch as you tighten the upper portion(via the 4 allen bolts) to the lower. The corners will start to dip down as aliminum is a very soft, yet light-weight metal. I watch this happen every time I remove and re-attach it. It will spring back as soon as you take the pressure off those 4 allen bolts. Thats why you tighten them sequentially and till their firmly hand-tight. Also use Lock-tight to prevent them from backing out. This is expecially the case, if you plan on using 1 of the 2 top rails supplied with the kit, and will be mounting optics (As far as making shure the top rail is as level as possible).

 

This is where the fully milled quads have the advantage. As long as they were machined properly, the top rail should be flat. There is no adjustment to make, or to screw up. You can keep you optic mounted and still remove the entire assembly withought having to go through the bullshit of having to re-zero. That is if you zero'ed in the first place. FYI, and those reading this (Some will never zero their optic in the first place).

 

Now I'm not biased towards either design. But if I do get my hands on a decent optic (preferably a red-dot), then I will be using the factory side-mount attachment with a quick-release.

 

After thinking this through. I decided that the UTG Quad (In Tri-rail configuration, was perfect for my application). I simply wanted the ability to mount picatinny attachments such as a VFG or flashlight and the ability to use the factory rear iron sight and Krebs FSB.

 

Reguarding the OP'ers request. I've got 3-4000rds of mostly wally-world Federal value-pack bird-shot through this thing. Less than 500rds of those were 00-buck and sluggs.

 

The only thing I've had mounted on it was a plastic VFG, which unfortunatly snapped in half. I was pissd I broke a $40 part so I pored gas on that fucker and melted it.

 

Like others have described, sliding anything along the Picatinny-mounts will scratch paint, and set-screws will dig into base-metal.

Edited by saigaguy09
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I'm just using the cheap tapco frontend. It's not the best made thing in the world, but it isn't giving me any problems at all, and at least the bottom rail seems firmly attached enough to run a magpul AFG.

 

I quite like mine on there, matches the lines nice.

 

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Also runs 100% parallel at the back to the front of the MD20. Yes I pay attention.

Edited by Tombs
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  • 3 months later...

I guess this fits your criteria as much as the tapco does.....

 

I have the CSS AR style handgaurd that I made into a tri-rail with their rail kit. This thing is amazing. The finish is awesome and its light. The rails are plastic but I am going to try and find some aluminum ones with the same bolt pattern. Ive shot almost 1000 rounds of bulk pack and about 300 slugs and buckshot. This thing fits like a glove and the Magpul AFG has been there the whole time. The pictures are from when I was installing the forearm so I didnt have the third rail on it. I installed the laser for about 200 rounds but felt it was useless so I swapped it out with a surefire G2 flashlight. Never any wobble and no weight gain at all. Highly recomended!!!

 

The receiver and barrel/gas block with be magpul green soon hence the OD green AFG

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I have the UGT Rail that was installed when I purchased my gun via LGS from Mach 1. It' has not given me any problems that I can tell. During the first 100 rounds the gun had cycling issues. (all fixed with Booster puck and V plug). current round count is in mid 200's. I will inspect my rail closer tonight and see if those 4 bolts are torqued evenly as described above.

 

 

 

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i have a fuglystick hangaurd, with about 200 rounds with it. the handgaurd has proven comfortable, and has a good finish on it. i got the long version of the fuglystick, the one that goes out past the gas plug, and its got a really tight fit with my md arms v plug. makes it difficult to adjust the plug, but possible, so i dont think ill dremel the handgaurd. unfortunately i have to remove the handgaurd to clean the block out. but this could be solved with a dremel or just buying a shorter version. it has the ability to have rails added to it, the handgaurd and rail kits are carried by Mississippi auto arms. the rail kit is 3 6" rails. i do not have the rail kit, because i dont have anything to mount, but you just screw them on and if the screws ever backed out, you can loctite it. so far this is a great handgaurd. i look forward to trying the rail system as soon as i have something to mount. does anyone hear have any experience with the rail kit?

 

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  • 8 months later...

Im having trouble understand how a utg rail would cause the gun to malfunction. Mine runs fine with the utg / no top cover. Having the top cover on wouldnt seem to change anything imo. It was cheap and had different options tri rail which I wanted and when I purchased mine chaos and css were out of stock.

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  • 1 year later...

i ran a HALO quad for a long time and it never caused the gun to malfunction, my only complaint was how much extra weight it ended up adding to the front end, made the gun very slow in fast target aquisition. i sold it off put the original handguards back on and now run an ultimak rail across the top with a burris fast fire II, it is super fast and light ad i love it. also have handled the surefire and tapco on buddies guns and both were fine and neve caused any issues, though the surefire is by far the more comfortable and better looking IMO.

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