How do you C.Y.A. when buying FTF?

[Paulyski 2,227]

So...

 

How do you cover your ass when buying firearms face to face?

 

If you call the number the state police give you to check serial #s, they want everyone's name & address before they'll run the serial # & tell you if it's legit.

 

FUCK THAT!!!

 

There's no fucking law that says we need to give them everyone's address & name.

What if I don't know the dude's address & what if he doesn't want me mentioning his name around the cops?

But there is a law against "lost or stolen" firearms.

 

So is there a site one can run serial #s on?

Or a number to call that isn't so intrusive?

 

Or should one simply document the time called, officer spoken with & the fact that they wouldn't run the #s for them since they didn't know the guy's personal info... & keep that on record.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Paulyski

[Kliegl 304]

You see the guy's ID, copy his information down, and, if it ever comes up the gun is stolen,

then he owes you the money. It's not a crime to unknowingly buy stolen goods, and you are

entitled to your money back.

 

This allows you a method to recoup your loss, and provides a paper trail to prove you didn't steal

it. Also, get a bill of sale from the man with his signature. Something like:

 

On 11/12/10, I sold Remington 700 rifle serial #123456 to Paulski for 300 dollars. (signature)

[joebanda1213 59]

Google search firearms bill of sale. I found one that was written by a lawyer like a half page long and was very in depth.

[VaiFanatic90 360]

I always write up a bill of sale, even if I'm just trading. It shows that on that date, I transferred the weapon to someone who seemed legally fit to own it, and it's no longer my responsibility.

[Paulyski 2,227]

There's no law stating that a private sale needs a receipt.

Nor that any information needs to be collected, or background check be run.

All that's necessary is that the seller thinks the guy purchasing can legally own firearms.

 

I'm fundamentally opposed to making up laws that don't exist & making unnecessary paper trails.

If we make laws to further control ourselves, we will be more inclined to submit to further governmental intrusion.

 

I just want to make sure I'm not committing a crime as I legally carry.

 

I think even less about our policing system after this, due to all the attempts to control & misinform, or withhold information about laws, every time I contact the police depts, they reinforce my views that they're fucking useless.

EVERY FUCKING TIME!!!

 

Even when I was almost getting robbed & had the shit-birds at gunpoint... I called 911 & was put on hold. .

 

All I want to know is if the damn thing is hot. I doubt it is, but this particular firearm was sold to him privately by a dude who bought it privately & "who knows" where "dude" got it from.

 

There's no way in hell, even if I knew all Dude's personal info that I'd turn them into the state...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I played with a member here once just to make him squirm, but I really wouldn't have "pulled the trigger". I just gather info & bluff really well... Especially when self appointed "peacemakers" get involved & I can use them in the game to relay info to the mark.

 

 

If it turned out it was hot, I'd turn it in so the owner could have it back then I'd have the guy who sold it to me pay me back. And you better believe when someone owes me money from a private deal, they pay unless I forgive the debt...

Even if I have to auction their shit off in their livingroom while they sit there watching.

They fuckin pay.

 

I don't stiff people & don't let them screw me. I'm a patient man, but I know when people are screwing around.

 

Well, I guess I'll just roll the dice & trust that everything is legit, but still, I think it's bullshit that the state makes it difficult to make sure a gun's cool.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Paulyski

[Kliegl 304]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude,

 

Nobody said anything about laws, making new laws, making a paper trail, or anything.

All people said was to have a bill of sale to cover your ass in case shit happened.

Ideally, that piece of paper would just chill in your file cabinet for 30 years, then

you throw it away, or whenever.

 

It's better than Rambo-style auctioning their shit if you're owed money since someone will

call the cops on YOU (and the badass, no bullshit attitude doesn't work on them)

[Paulyski 2,227]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude,

 

Nobody said anything about laws, making new laws, making a paper trail, or anything.

All people said was to have a bill of sale to cover your ass in case shit happened.

Ideally, that piece of paper would just chill in your file cabinet for 30 years, then

you throw it away, or whenever.

 

It's better than Rambo-style auctioning their shit if you're owed money since someone will

call the cops on YOU (and the badass, no bullshit attitude doesn't work on them)

I got'cha.

 

Just a little annoyed at my local overseers.

 

I just don't like paper trails.

I figured someone may know a site that a person can just run serial #s at, or a no strings attached # to call.

 

Calling & attempting to run the #, being refused due to their stipulations & documenting the officer who refused will have to suffice I guess.

I just get suspicious when I get a deal that's too good.

 

As for the auction, we only had to do that once & dude wasn't in the position to call the cops...

 

Worked better than a collection agency.

 

Ahhhhh, the folly of youth...

Edited November 12, 2010 by Paulyski

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I've never done a FTF, or otherwise private sale, of anything with a serial on it yet. I've only bought/sold parts.

 

But what I see in a lot of WTS ads for FTF sales, is that the seller requires the buyer to produce a CHL/CWP/whatever your state might call it, even though most states don't require it for a FTF sale. I think that's a good way to at least help weed out those who can't legally own a gun, and covers your ass a little bit.

 

Even if you don't like paper trails.......when you're the seller, it's best to have one on the gun you've handed to someone, that's still linked to you by the serial. That way, worst case scenario, if the guy commits a crime with it and the police come knocking on your door because they found the weapon..........you at least have a name and address to give them to get them off your case.

 

That's how I look at it anyway.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I don't sell guns face to face that I bought through an FFL for that exact reason.

I've only done it once & I did just what you suggested. Also, I handed him my copy of the receipt to ensure his prints were on it. I think he was flipping it for a profit to someone, so I figured I'd cover my ass on that one.

 

I'm weary of end users who will pay much for a used Hi-Point.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I'm weary of end users who will pay much for a used Hi-Point.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with Hi-Points. Just cracking a joke, from what I've read about them.

[GeorgiaPD 408]

A gun has never entered my hands on a FTF deal without a copy of there license and a receipt be provided. If they are unwilling to provide such, then I find a new buyer.

 

As far as paper trails go, having this information available to you if a gun were to come back as stolen is worth a small hassle.

 

FOR PAULY: I can tell you why they want your name and address before checking your gun. If the gun comes back as stolen, then they know where to start looking and whom to speak with when they get there to retrieve the gun.

[zenman223 460]

Hell at least they'll do it over the phone, in NC they require pistol permits just to buy one. these permits are completely seperate from a CCW permit. I called my local LEO to run a serial #, they told me BOTH parties had to come the sheriffs dept. with said handgun and a purchase permit to run the #'s and complete the sale!!! WTF?? But then I called back the next day and got a nice lady who checked the #'s no questions asked!!! So it might be worth calling back.

 

In NC you are supposed to have a permit to transfer a handgun in any way. EVEN INHERITING ONE. but they don't really enforce this law b/c Ive bought handguns and been stopped with handguns who were registered to someone else. BUT there was an incident a few years ago where my beautiful S&W 10mm was confiscated from my vehicle and the bastards would NOT return it without a purchase receipt or BILL OF SALE! They said all i could do was take them to court, so i contacted one of the most respected gun lawyers in NC and was told I better leave well enough alone because they could come after me for not having bought it with a permit!! that shit still pisses me off!! Yeah best way to cover your ass is a very thorough bill of sale for both parties.

Ive got a .pdf bill of sale from a pre paid legal service I use for stuff, its great. You just change the names and the item being sold and it works for everything!!

[diamondback 56]

I have a little bill of sale with lines like "Seller certifies under penalty of perjury he is the lawful owner of this firearm" and "Buyer certifies under penalty of perjury he is not legally disqualified from owning a firearm". Don't know how binding it is, but it at least demonstrates good-faith effort on my part.

 

Also, the entirety of my purchases to date have been from fellow Washington Arms Collectors members, and you have to be CPL, FFL or otherwise pass a background-check to even be allowed to join.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Diamondback

[Paulyski 2,227]

A gun has never entered my hands on a FTF deal without a copy of there license and a receipt be provided. If they are unwilling to provide such, then I find a new buyer.

 

As far as paper trails go, having this information available to you if a gun were to come back as stolen is worth a small hassle.

 

FOR PAULY: I can tell you why they want your name and address before checking your gun. If the gun comes back as stolen, then they know where to start looking and whom to speak with when they get there to retrieve the gun.

I understand.

My name & address isn't the issue.

I just don't know the other guy's last name or address & it's not my job to work for the police by getting it.