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I have been reading quite a bit about the Draco's and have fondled them lovingly from time to time. That being said, they are not very practical like they are and I am not interested going the SBR route. While reading about my particuar question, I have found much misinformation and general dumbassness related to my topic.

 

Mind you I am just tumbling random thoughts around in my head and would like to know the facts of my query. I am thinking that it would be just a little cheaper and a little better to make a rifle out of a draco.

 

By a little cheaper I mean a Saiga conversion being a little more expensive than taking a Draco and adding a stock and a permanently attached muzzle device to bring it to rifle specs of 16" bbl and 26" overall length.

 

By a little better I mean nicer than a WASR 10 (which I have no interest in) or comparable.

 

I'll add that it might be cool to do if legal, and I just want one done this way.

 

Now to the questions:

 

1. Can you add a muzzle device and permanently attach it with a length of 16"? I will not incur any gun smithing charges if legal to do.

 

2. If so, what is considered permanently attached? Welded only or pinned in some way permissible?

 

3. Can you add the stock to bring the OAL to 26" after making the bbl 16"? I can handle the work here as well.

 

I am pretty sure you can't make it back into a pistol once you have done this, but again please chime in if you know better.

 

Also if there is any paperwork that needs to be done to do this, if so it doesn't make sense to do.

 

Thoughts?

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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, or in any way qualified to offer legal advice. The following is my opinion only.

 

1. Can you add a muzzle device and permanently attach it with a length of 16"? I will not incur any gun smithing charges if legal to do.

Yes, you can - however your OAL without a buttstock will be about 25" (if my mental math is accurate), so you might be in violation until you get the buttstock attached - I don't know for certain.

 

2. If so, what is considered permanently attached? Welded only or pinned in some way permissible?

There are a few methods of permanent attachment that the ATF accepts. Welding is probably the easiest, and they are satisfied with a solid tack weld.

 

3. Can you add the stock to bring the OAL to 26" after making the bbl 16"? I can handle the work here as well.

If you're asking if it's physically possible, the answer is yes; drilling the trunnion for an Ace style stock or replacing the trunnion are both relatively straightforward. If you're asking if it's ok to bring the OAL to legal measure after lengthening the barrel, I don't know. You could go more complex to assure that it's legal - lengthen the barrel with your muzzle device with a piece of steel tube or something tacked on the end of the muzzle device so that the OAL length is over 26", then attach your buttstock, and dremel off the tack weld to remove the steel tubing.

 

 

 

You're right, you cannot turn it back into a pistol. No paperwork necessary. It may be that you're supposed to mark your name and city/state on the gun, not sure.

 

 

In all honesty, I don't see much point in going this route. You'll end up with a product that is not a hell of a lot better than a WASR 10/63, with a shorter sight radius, that cost you as much or more than the WASR, does not accept standard AK handguards, and has the length of a full rifle without the benefit of rifling for the last ~5 inches of the barrel.

Edited by Shandlanos
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, or in any way qualified to offer legal advice. The following is my opinion only.

 

1. Can you add a muzzle device and permanently attach it with a length of 16"? I will not incur any gun smithing charges if legal to do.

Yes, you can - however your OAL without a buttstock will be about 25" (if my mental math is accurate), so you might be in violation until you get the buttstock attached - I don't know for certain.

 

Good points all, I don't believe the OAL is a problem after adding the muzzle device because it is still a pistol with a muzzle device. But that may not be legal and that is why I am asking here.

3. Can you add the stock to bring the OAL to 26" after making the bbl 16"? I can handle the work here as well.

If you're asking if it's physically possible, the answer is yes; drilling the trunnion for an Ace style stock or replacing the trunnion are both relatively straightforward. If you're asking if it's ok to bring the OAL to legal measure after lengthening the barrel, I don't know. You could go more complex to assure that it's legal - lengthen the barrel with your muzzle device with a piece of steel tube or something tacked on the end of the muzzle device so that the OAL length is over 26", then attach your buttstock, and dremel off the tack weld to remove the steel tubing.

 

I wasn't asking about whether the stock could physically be installed, I am a machinist and would have no problem with that, I was asking the legalities of it. (which are still unclear)

You're right, you cannot turn it back into a pistol. No paperwork necessary. It may be that you're supposed to mark your name and city/state on the gun, not sure.

 

Interested to know whether you have to stamp your info on the side as well. Would this be considered manufacturing?

 

 

In all honesty, I don't see much point in going this route. You'll end up with a product that is not a hell of a lot better than a WASR 10/63, with a shorter sight radius, that cost you as much or more than the WASR, does not accept standard AK handguards, and has the length of a full rifle without the benefit of rifling for the last ~5 inches of the barrel.

 

 

Most people who had replied on the net to similar requests usually questioned the intent/purpose as well. The simple fact is that I am curious just for me.

 

No it doesn't make much sense to me either, the lack of rifling in the last 5 inches is a big drawback. Maybe a fake can? Keep in mind this is strictly a cheap toy if it is even legal to do.

 

Not a hell of a lot better is still some better, which is the point.

 

I really appreciate any and all info.

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This is my Draco. When MI finally allows it, I'd like to SBR it. Without a stock, it IS a bit limited in application. Still, it's fun to shoot and hasn't given me one single problem since I bought it.

 

Dracobulgy.jpg

 

The length of the barrel on a pistol doesn't matter (legally). The OAL on a pistol doesn't matter either. Once you put a stock on a pistol, it better have at least a 16" barrel and an OAL of 26" or more. And once you do that, you can't go back to having it be a pistol, I believe. I'd defer to a Class 3 dealer or Class 2 manufacturer though.

 

Having said that, I see no benefit to adding a barrel extension. You gain no velocity or accuracy. I suppose it would reduce some flash. Just make sure the Feds don't think it reduces the noise at all, or you'll be in trouble. A while back a company got in trouble for a similar fake suppressor on an HK styled 22. It only reduced the noise a few decibels, but that doesn't matter.

 

If you're not going for an SBR, why keep the shorter barrel?

 

 

Corbin

Edited by Corbin
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After mulling this idea over after a good nights sleep, it doesn't seem worth the effort either from a legal standpoint or a practical one. If I do a Draco, I think I will do a SBR because it makes more sense and they are legal in my state with a stamp.

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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, or in any way qualified to offer legal advice. The following is my opinion only.

 

1. Can you add a muzzle device and permanently attach it with a length of 16"? I will not incur any gun smithing charges if legal to do.

Yes, you can - however your OAL without a buttstock will be about 25" (if my mental math is accurate), so you might be in violation until you get the buttstock attached - I don't know for certain.

 

Good points all, I don't believe the OAL is a problem after adding the muzzle device because it is still a pistol with a muzzle device. But that may not be legal and that is why I am asking here.

 

I don't believe there's anything such as a "long-barreled pistol." Regardless of the presence of a buttstock, I'm fairly confident that a firearm with a rifled barrel over 16" in length must have an overall length of 26" or greater. I believe the barrel length automatically puts it in long gun territory.

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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, or in any way qualified to offer legal advice. The following is my opinion only.

 

1. Can you add a muzzle device and permanently attach it with a length of 16"? I will not incur any gun smithing charges if legal to do.

Yes, you can - however your OAL without a buttstock will be about 25" (if my mental math is accurate), so you might be in violation until you get the buttstock attached - I don't know for certain.

 

Good points all, I don't believe the OAL is a problem after adding the muzzle device because it is still a pistol with a muzzle device. But that may not be legal and that is why I am asking here.

 

I don't believe there's anything such as a "long-barreled pistol." Regardless of the presence of a buttstock, I'm fairly confident that a firearm with a rifled barrel over 16" in length must have an overall length of 26" or greater. I believe the barrel length automatically puts it in long gun territory.

 

 

Nope.

 

It has to do with how the receiver is registered.

 

Once it's sold as a pistol you can not put a stock opn it with out increasing the lenghts to the minimuns.

Edited by Boba Debt
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I'd pin the muzzle device then spot weld over the pin & finish over the spot weld.

Welding a muzzle device is tricky. Steel contraction occurs the second a weld is made & cools.

You better be damn good if you're gonna counter it.

 

 

ETA, I can't think of a better under the seat gun than a stock draco.

 

It's powerful enough for many situations & will take care of anybody who comes to your door, or take out their engine good too.

Edited by Paulyski
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I could see doing this if the muzzle attachment was a real suppressor. For me I have enough other guns to also put said suppressor on that two stamps (suppressor and SBR) is well worth it.

 

ETA, I can't think of a better under the seat gun than a stock draco.

 

Draco SBR with a folding stock? :haha:

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I don't believe there's anything such as a "long-barreled pistol." Regardless of the presence of a buttstock, I'm fairly confident that a firearm with a rifled barrel over 16" in length must have an overall length of 26" or greater. I believe the barrel length automatically puts it in long gun territory.

 

There is no federal maximum barrel length requirement for a pistol. Some states do have such a regulation.

 

There are not too many made like that but they do exist and Uberti makes a 18 inch barrel revolver which would most likely be illegal to own

in only those states.

 

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/revolver_carbine_and_buntline.php

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I don't believe there's anything such as a "long-barreled pistol." Regardless of the presence of a buttstock, I'm fairly confident that a firearm with a rifled barrel over 16" in length must have an overall length of 26" or greater. I believe the barrel length automatically puts it in long gun territory.

 

There is no federal maximum barrel length requirement for a pistol. Some states do have such a regulation.

 

There are not too many made like that but they do exist and Uberti makes a 18 inch barrel revolver which would most likely be illegal to own

in only those states.

 

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/revolver_carbine_and_buntline.php

1873_buntline_target.jpg

 

Isn't that what the joker used as his CCW piece?

 

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Corbin-The ballistics out of a short barreled AK are fantastic in comparison to the AR platform (correction: the ballistics with the x39 are excellent in comparison to 5.56). As a fellow MI resident you can essentially make a "MI pistol" with ease as well as greatly reduce your muzzle flash (dead give away of your location) by adding a flash hider. 26" is only a couple more then what they come stock (22" I believe? don't have the Draco in front of me).

I've thought of doing this numerous times, why haven't I you say? I still don't know.....

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since the receiver was registered as a pistol I'm betting that there's no way around SBR restrictions if you put a stock on it.

 

 

That was my feeling too, but I'm no expert. If there's a way to get a stock on a Draco legally in MI, I'd be interested. Granted, if adding a 4.5" extension would work, why not just have a 16" barrel to start with? Flash supression I suppose.

 

Actually, I'll have to think about that. Might be interesting....... Hmmmmmmmm :unsure:

 

 

*EDIT to add comment below*

 

 

I know they make 16" barrel and stocked setups for Glock pistols. Like this:

 

mectec_glock21.jpg

 

 

I don't know if once you put them on the Glock frame, if you're required by law to not switch back or not.

 

Regardless, I got my Draco out and measured it......

 

11.5" barrel and about 20.5" long. You'd need 4.5 MINUMUM added to barrel, and you'd still need another 1.5" with the folding mechanism or something to get it to 26". Not undo-able, but still.

Edited by Corbin
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Might want to have this moved to the NFA section. I'm not versed on the laws involved, but since the receiver was registered as a pistol I'm betting that there's no way around SBR restrictions if you put a stock on it.

 

I dropped this in GD for the traffic hoping some of the serious gun guys could help me with these questions. However, my thread has turned out like every other thread I read on the internet about this topic.

 

 

Apparently our firearms laws are so convoluted and draconian that even the real gun guys can't answer these questions.

 

That being said, there is some good answers in this thread and I really appreciate everyone who has chimed in. The definitive answers or where to get them remains elusive though.

 

Still searching..................... Honestly I don't think I would attempt it because of the number laws and gray areas.

 

 

??

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Thank you gentlemen for this informative thread. Are all the readily available Draco's imported by CAI? Anybody have any buying advice? (besides buy only the one you can hold in your hands - I am limited to an internet purchase) The biggest CAI issue is what, canted sights? too much play in the setup? I have a CAI Yugo AK with both issues, and neither one is a real problem. Thank you.

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Might want to have this moved to the NFA section. I'm not versed on the laws involved, but since the receiver was registered as a pistol I'm betting that there's no way around SBR restrictions if you put a stock on it.

 

You can permanently make it a long gun with a stock and 16 inch barrel as far as the federal government is concerned. This is not reversible without a stamp.

There are plenty of tech branch letters stating this. Obviously, the barrel must be lengthened first then a stock. The NFA only says that you can't make a pistol from a rifle but

does not state that you can't make a rifle from a pistol. Now, if a state law somewhere has another issue with this, that is entirely different. But, I am assuming that you mean in terms of federal law.

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Fellas, there is no need for all that.

1.The barrel can have a flash hider put on it while it's a pistol. There is no law against it. With such a short barrel you'll need that flash hider to be long if you ever intend to shoot it at night (home protection and what not).

2.You add the folding stock. This HAS TO BE DONE IN THIS ORDER OR YOU"VE MADE AN SBR BEFORE YOU"VE MADE A RIFLE.

3.The lengths of everything will have to be tinkered with before you get in to the project so that you can make it legit.

 

Corbin-once a pistol is turned in to a rifle it can't be turned back in to a pistol. Stupid law basically made to curtail what your talking about with the Glock Mech Tech system, TC Contenders, ARs, the list goes on and on.

Edited by YARP
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Thank you gentlemen for this informative thread. Are all the readily available Draco's imported by CAI? Anybody have any buying advice? (besides buy only the one you can hold in your hands - I am limited to an internet purchase) The biggest CAI issue is what, canted sights? too much play in the setup? I have a CAI Yugo AK with both issues, and neither one is a real problem. Thank you.

dracos are unique in this instance as they are pistols and are imported factory new from romania.this means that they are not subject to 922r laws and century only imports them and does not infect them with their plague that they have spread in many other firearms.the only problem i have had(after two ordered through the internet)was one of them the bolt would not close and it would jam....long story short,all that was wrong was the extractor spring was too large and stiff.no big deal.other than that both dracos ran flawlessly and the sights were excellent and dead on from the factory.i know some people will bash the accuracy and leathality of the short barrel but honestly either they cant shoot for shit for have some theory burned in their head without actual hard evidence.i would say if you have interest in buying a draco then go for it.they are fun and functional.if you ever get tired of it then you will not have a problem selling it as they are quite a hot item in the ak world.

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