Saiga .223 or SLR-106fr

[self_inflicted 70]

Wasn’t sure where to post this, so I decided to post it here since it concerns the Saiga .223, I also did a search on the forum for this topic but couldn’t find an answer to my question, or at least the search cues I entered didn’t lead me to it. If this has been discussed I apologize.

 

My question is concerning the Saiga .223, or the SLR-106fr, which one is better and why?

I have decided that my next AK purchase is going to be in 5.56/.223, due to .223 being my most abundant round, and the ease of having a single “main” caliber.

 

I have read reviews of both rifles, and most of them have been very good. Cost wise they are about equal; a SLR-106fr is about $700, and a Saiga .223 with the cost and time to convert on my own would equal about $700, perhaps a bit less depending on what I would choose to add. The main benefit of the SLR-106fr is it is ready to go; the negative is the cost of the magazines, which is still only about $25. The main benefit of the Saiga .223 is the magazine options, and the "I know my rifle inside and out" factor (this is a big plus for me) however, the negative is the fact that it does have to be converted (don't yell at me), where as the SLR-106fr is where I would want the Saiga .223 to be, without the work (lazy... maybe jk).

 

So, with that said, does anyone have any input or advice?

 

Thanks,

 

V/R

 

self_inflicted

Edited August 7, 2012 by Nailbomb

[jimdigriz 580]

I have a Saiga .223, but if I were to do it over, I would save up for the SLR instead. As you said, the SLR is good to go, and professionally done. For my part, I'm tired of grinding and filing and tapping and cutting on rifles and rifle parts, and still having it come out inferior to an SGL or SLR. As far as knowing your rifle inside and out, I'm not sure why you can't do that with an SLR. AKs are pretty simple devices.

 

 

the negative is the cost of the magazines, which is still only about $25. The main benefit of the Saiga .223 is the magazine options

I have a hard time seeing how the issue of magazines could ever weigh in favor of the the Saiga instead of the SLR. With the SLR, you KNOW that it will accept the best magazines available for the gun (the Circle 10s), and that WITHOUT any modification to the rifle or the magazines. With the Saiga, you don't know what your getting, in terms of magazine compatibility, and you may have to hack on it to get it to work. Believe me; I'm speaking from experience.

 

The SLR is the clear winner, from my point of view: Good to go from the beginning, accepts the best magazines, and the hard stuff already done for you.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[nutical 16]

Even if the SLR cost 100 more, I would still buy it over a converted Saiga 223.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

I vote for the Saiga because you can restore one for WAY less then $700 total (should be under $500 with basic parts). And IMO, the restoration work and hunting parts down is alot of the fun!

 

The extra money saved is ammo and magazines.

[swells08 128]

I love my converted 223, but after learning so much about the slr I think I would have spent the extra coin...if mags are manageable for my saiga it cant be to hard to figure something out. I really like the better twist rate for heavier loads...makes the 556 shine.

[dobravery 49]

I voted Saiga because it will send a semi-auto 55-62 grain hunk of lead down range just as well. Very effective upgrades will still leave plenty of money for mags and ammo. Having said that, if the SLR fits your budget and you'd have to do a lot to get the Saiga to where you want it--then yeah go for the SLR.

 

It was seeing Arsenal .223's that actually got me into the whole Saiga .223 thing.

 

BTW, a lot of people here prefer the Bulgarian .223 mags for their Saiga's anyway, so I don't think that isn't exactly a negative on the SLR.

[GeorgiaPD 408]

I voted SLR106FR, but only because I am biased and own one with plum furniture

 

Either way you go, you will end up with a very dependable weapon.

[PinkFloyd 63]

If I had to do it again, I'd buy the SLR. I bought a Saiga and converted because I was on a budget. The SLR will be cheaper by the time you do all the mods to the Saiga .223 that (at least in my case) you want. I wanted a side folding stock, flash suppressor, ability to take Circle 10's and a good internal trigger group, and the SLR already comes with that. Just to get the same features on a Saiga you're talking about spending the same money, so why not just get the one made at the factory? For me I was cost prohibited so I just bought a Saiga .223, it wasn't meant as a main combat gun anyway so it was okay.

[bigsal 757]

I voted SLR106FR, but only because I am biased and own one with plum furniture

 

Either way you go, you will end up with a very dependable weapon.

 

GPD:> whats that emotion I am feeling.... oh yeah...regret?

 

Self_Inflicted:> The magazine decision should be a non-issue. You should go Bulgarian ether way. The strength of the AK platform is the magazines. Using AR mags or Galil mags are a major downgrade in capabilities compared to the black ((10))'s with metal reinforcement.

[PinkFloyd 63]

It should be noted for the record, SGM mags are freakin' awesome. They're not as good as circle 10's but they fit amazingly tight in my Saiga. I can literally pick the gun up by the mag and shake the gun around, it will not rattle. They're seriously THAT rock solid.

 

AR mags aren't too bad so long as you're using Pmags or the HK's. Pmags are the best mags for the platform IMO considering cost, weight and strength, tho I use them in my Sig 556. I've never had a jam in that gun tho in about 3000 rounds, so I'm guessing its a relative nonissue.

[self_inflicted 70]

+ 1 to all from me, thanks for all the reply's and all the input and knowledge. I'm still a month or so out before I buy, but I have decided that most likely I will get the SLR-106fr. Every Saiga I own, I love, but this time around the SLR has everything I want, all ready to go. But who knows, I may still buy a Saiga .223 and have both

 

Thanks,

 

V/R

 

self_inflicted

[tbtravis 0]

This summer I converted two Saiga's,a .223 and a 5.45x39. I'm glad I did it because I have the confidence to repair one in the unlikely event that repairs are needed. I have since replaced them with an Aresnal 7.62 and a .223. To me a Saiga makes sense moneywise if you are just going to a basic conversion(move the trigger group forward and a new stock. If you are going to do the front end it seems to me that the Arsenals offer better value. Again I'm just talking money, if you enjoy working on these, that's another story.

I don't think it's been mentioned here, but the Arsenal .223 comes with a 1/7 barrel twist which is handy if you want to shoot 75-77 gr. OTM bullets. Terminal performance on these are quite a bit better than 55-62 grain bullets.

 

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.223

 

All the best,

Tom

[calvin118 2]

If you want to save money and will be content with a minimal conversion, go for the Saiga. If you are planning to go all out on the conversion anyway, get the SLR. You will get a real 100 series folding stock, a 1/7 barrel and a 5.56 chamber. Easily worth the $100 to me.

[Falcon09 22]

I own both. I did the PG conversion on the Saiga and added a Tapco Galil handguard but the SLR 106 is by far my favorite AK.

 

The quality of the SLR is outstanding and if you want a folder with muzzle brake and bayonet lug you would be hard pressed to convert a Saiga for cheaper than you can buy an SLR 106.

[jimdigriz 580]

self_inflicted,

Can you please close the poll so this thread doesn't keep popping up from now to eternity?

 

Thanks.

[cellsworth 21]

The SLR-106F or SLR-106FR is the way to go. They are very nice guns, good to go from the outset, made to work with the best magazines (there is less standardization with .223 AKs, so it is generally best to use the magazines made to work with that particular make of .223 AK), and they have the AK-100 series style side-folding stock (which is awesome).

[self_inflicted 70]

self_inflicted,

Can you please close the poll so this thread doesn't keep popping up from now to eternity?

 

Thanks.

 

Ah sorry for that! Could someone please help me out, how do you close the poll?

 

Thanks!

[Falcon78 0]

You will get a real 100 series folding stock, a 1/7 barrel and a 5.56 chamber. Easily worth the $100 to me.

 

Isn't the Saiga 223 truly built around a 5.56 chamber, despite the .223 label?

Edited February 3, 2011 by Falcon78

[thunderheart 1]

You will get a real 100 series folding stock, a 1/7 barrel and a 5.56 chamber. Easily worth the $100 to me.

 

Isn't the Saiga 223 truly built around a 5.56 chamber, despite the .223 label?

 

According to RAAC it is.

[jsunn 3]

I'm inclined to believe that Arsenal is simply importing Saigas and converting the same as we are, albeit in a more professional manner.. into the 106. As far as I can tell the deviations are the 100 stock, the trigger, the Fsb / gb with lugs, gas tube, and muzzle brake. The only thing I wonder about is if the barrels are the same. Thoughts?

[jsunn 3]

Doublepost

Edited May 16, 2011 by j_sunn

[tbtravis 0]

I'm inclined to believe that Arsenal is simply importing Saigas and converting the same as we are, albeit in a more professional manner.. into the 106. As far as I can tell the deviations are the 100 stock, the trigger, the Fsb / gb with lugs, gas tube, and muzzle brake. The only thing I wonder about is if the barrels are the same. Thoughts?

 

I have a 106FR and they are not Saiga's. They are Bulgarian. The barrel's are 1/7 which I consider an advantage as it allows you to use 75-77 grain bullets that have better terminal performance.

 

Tom

[jsunn 3]

I'm inclined to believe that Arsenal is simply importing Saigas and converting the same as we are, albeit in a more professional manner.. into the 106. As far as I can tell the deviations are the 100 stock, the trigger, the Fsb / gb with lugs, gas tube, and muzzle brake. The only thing I wonder about is if the barrels are the same. Thoughts?

 

I have a 106FR and they are not Saiga's. They are Bulgarian. The barrel's are 1/7 which I consider an advantage as it allows you to use 75-77 grain bullets that have better terminal performance.

 

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

Do Saiga .223's not have a 1:7 Barrel twist? Also, I'm fairly certain the SLR-106FR's DO come from the same place as Saiga's and are just re-worked by Arsenal once they hit the states as they cannot be imported in the military configuration. If anything they may not have the BHO installed that the Saiga's do and it appears that they still even need to be modified to accept hi-cap mags and have the trigger moved forward. I get my info from this article:

 

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/arsenal%E2%80%99s-sgl31-545x39mm/2/

 

which is linked to from Arsenals very site right here:

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/pages.php?pageid=6

 

If I'm off base somehow, let me know because I have been on the fence trying to decide whether to get a Saiga and convert it (more fun, same money) or just get an SLR.

 

J

[Koljec 37]

 

 

If I'm off base somehow, let me know because I have been on the fence trying to decide whether to get a Saiga and convert it (more fun, same money) or just get an SLR.

 

J

 

If you need proof, I'll try tonight to get a photo of my SLR's receiver. Its mark is Arsenal of Bulgaria, not Izhmash or Legion. The barrel is by Steyr, irrc.

 

Also, it's very hard to come by new SLR 106s at the moment (I've read some speculation that Izhmash got Arsenal to stop 106 production, dunno how valid that is). But if you buy a used one, make sure the serial has a BD or BE or later -- the earlier batches have some feed ramp problems, maybe other issues, and it wouldn't be as fun to own one of those.

[jsunn 3]

 

 

If I'm off base somehow, let me know because I have been on the fence trying to decide whether to get a Saiga and convert it (more fun, same money) or just get an SLR.

 

J

 

If you need proof, I'll try tonight to get a photo of my SLR's receiver. Its mark is Arsenal of Bulgaria, not Izhmash or Legion. The barrel is by Steyr, irrc.

 

Also, it's very hard to come by new SLR 106s at the moment (I've read some speculation that Izhmash got Arsenal to stop 106 production, dunno how valid that is). But if you buy a used one, make sure the serial has a BD or BE or later -- the earlier batches have some feed ramp problems, maybe other issues, and it wouldn't be as fun to own one of those.

 

Hey that's cool, I'd like to see any close up pics of SLR-106's in general, since the photo's on K-VAR's & Atlantics sites really aren't close up.

 

It looks like Atlantic has some for sale right here:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct836.aspx

 

But back to my original assertion, these rifles are not imported in the pistol grip / hi-cap mag configuration, that is against federal law, correct? So they either come in assembled in "sporter" config from Legion as the article states, or they come in as a bag of parts. I've heard that parts kits can't include the barrel so I'm guessing its the former. The article says they come into the country in the "sporter" config with the trigger in the same position as the unmodified Saiga 223 and Arsenal modifies them in Vegas back into the military config. Thoughts?

Edited June 1, 2011 by j_sunn

[Koljec 37]

Hey that's cool, I'd like to see any close up pics of SLR-106's in general, since the photo's on K-VAR's & Atlantics sites really aren't close up.

 

It looks like Atlantic has some for sale right here:

http://www.atlanticf...product836.aspx

 

But back to my original assertion, these rifles are not imported in the pistol grip / hi-cap mag configuration, that is against federal law, correct? So they either come in assembled in "sporter" config from Legion as the article states, or they come in as a bag of parts. I've heard that parts kits can't include the barrel so I'm guessing its the former. The article says they come into the country in the "sporter" config with the trigger in the same position as the unmodified Saiga 223 and Arsenal modifies them in Vegas back into the military config. Thoughts?

 

 

No problem. Will try to post a couple pics later tonight.

 

Call before you place an order. Atlantic has a good reputation, but I'm not sure Atlantic's SLRs are really in stock at the moment.

 

How the rifles are imported is a good question. They might arrive with some features but with no stocks or grips whatsoever. For example, my Arsenal SGL41 (based on a Saiga 410) came with a stamped manual for a 410 Version 02, which indicates that the the trigger group and gas system were done at the the Legion factory and not in the U.S..

 

Once stateside, Arsenal drops in a U.S. trigger group, furniture, and compensator. It makes for a legal Frankenstein, but the important parts are coming from the right foreign sources.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Koljec

[MCurtis762 10]

The Arsenal 106-fr is NOT made in Russia! It is made in Bulgaria as a sporting rifle and imported and modified to resemble an AK 101 by Arsenal. I own one and other than the paint being of a seemingly poorer quality than my Saiga, it is a superior rifle in many ways. For the price I was able to purchase it at, I would not have been able to make a .223 Saiga nearly as nice.

 

Couple of links:

 

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/06/don-gammill-jr/gun-review-arsenal-inc-slr-106fr-bulgarian-ak/

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/imgs/articles/slr106/SAR_SLR106.pdf

Edited June 2, 2011 by MCurtis762

[Koljec 37]

Hey that's cool, I'd like to see any close up pics of SLR-106's in general...

 

Here's the SLR 106FR. I bought it used.

 

Close-up. Bad shot, but maybe you can make out the BD serial prefix (rest is blacked out) as well as Made in Bulgaria.

 

Top: SGL41, Bottom: SLR 106FR

 

Same, but folded.

[jsunn 3]

Beautiful rifles man! Do you also have a Saiga .223? If so, have you done any comparisons on accuracy and overall function? How does the Saiga .223 holdup to the 106FR?

[Koljec 37]

Beautiful rifles man! Do you also have a Saiga .223? If so, have you done any comparisons on accuracy and overall function? How does the Saiga .223 holdup to the 106FR?

 

Thanks

 

I don't have a Saiga 223, and I've never shot one. The SLR had a bunch of features that I wanted, and the used price was right. Also, I'm not a gunsmith and, while I respect the skill, I don't have the means to dabble in gunsmithing at the moment.

 

I think both guns are probably very good for the prices. I am very happy with the SLR.

 

I actually prefer the 410, though. It's my home defense gun, my skeet gun, and I can do targets with slugs. It's just no good for range. That's where the SLR comes in.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Koljec