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What's the point of aftermarket gad plugs?


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Talk about a plug, you'll take any chance you can to post a pic of that thing won't ya? You're gonna have to start warning people the carrier is blinding.:lolol:

 

lol :lol: Yeah, pretty much. I just got her back, can ya blame me? :angel:

 

She's so sexy in person that if I just prop her in a corner, I sometimes catch myself starin. :D

 

No I don't blame ya I just gave mine a massage and a bath.:lolol:

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Answer;   To make money for people manufacturing & selling them.   That's the point of them.

my 1st question was why we change the settings on our shotguns for different ammo (I read and found out why)   my 2nd question was that there is a gas plug that automatically controls gas pressure f

short answer? to keap you from beating the shit out of youre rear trunion with magnum rounds. get a v plug it works great.

Bridis,

 

You should take you Videos down until you get your story straight, you did testing and posted results with out the correct initial adjustment. 4000 views of your test with videos saying it doesn't work .. then it does.. you are confusing the fuck out of people.

I know the plug works we built it.. take the inaccurate videos off and maybe you wont have so many confused people out there thinking it does not cycle low brass. we do mag dumps full auto with fed and bulk winchester, with slugs and buck mixed in there.. the shit works. video to come of gun and installation. Seriously I get more dumb ass questions because of your premature conclusion, from an unadjusted plug. Just a request until you do your other test if you could take down the inaccurate testing.

 

 

Cliff Evans

 

Cliff,

 

It saddens me to see this continue on this way. I'm sorry you don't like the testing results. However, you have noone else to blame but yourself. The Auto Plug didn't come with any instructions on how to set it up, nor were there any available at the time of testing. That being said, I still don't know if the Auto Plug will successfully process all types of ammo without significantly damaging my gun. I still have to test the setting that cycles low brass with high brass loads. So I won't be taking down my current results until I can prove otherwise. Though I am a bit pissed off at your attitude towards my independant testing. Sumsky, his wife and myself spent several hours and I spent my own money doing this testing. Do you have any idea what that cost? Let me help you understand.

1 person x 2 hrs round trip travel

2 people x 3 hrs round trip travel

3 people x 5 hrs test time

1 person x 6+ hrs producing video (I leave out the time I spent learning the software)

$60.00 Video editing software

$550.00 HD Video Camera

$200.00 Ammo

approx $40.00 fule

Lets say everyone got paid $15.00 an hour (I wouldn't get out of bed for $15.00 an hour). Labor cost would be $435.00.

Bringing the testing to an estimated grand total of $1285.00.

Now if you'd like to send me a check for $1285.00, I'll sell you the rights to those testing videos and you can do whatever you want with them. Otherwise, you can STFU and be thankful that I don't take this as more of an insult and go crazy posting links all over the internet.

I tested the Auto Plug fairly. I never said that "it doesn't work". I said that it didn't reliably cycle low brass and that it did a better job than the Gunfixer cycling high brass. During my testing I adjusted the Auto Plug 2.5 turns clockwise and still didn't get reliable results. So to say the plug was not adjusted is inaccurate. I'm sorry that I'm confusing the dumb asses. They should learn to listen and read.

BTW, there are 2 different videos of the Auto Plug testing. According to my YouTube account they currently have a combined viewing of 800. The Low Brass Testing only has 301 views. So I'm not sure where the "4000 views" you post comes from.

 

Good day...

 

 

Bridis,

 

The independent review is fine.. but the videos are contradicting, however that being said.. I dont mind you reviewing the plug.. but you have a video that has the autoplug cycling every other round, which is not accurate as you have said so your self. In the ideals of fairness one would think if the low brass video is no longer accurate then it would cease to exists as an accurate review, which people who are watching it seem to think. and this thread has 4000 views. I think you have proved your low brass video otherwise... any how.. I do appreciate you as a customer, and the fact that you went out of your way to make a video review, however i dont appreciate once it has been found inaccurate that is still is posted. Think of it if it was your product, some one tried it and posted a video of it not working, but never put the batteries in it.. I know that i own some of the responsibility, for not adequately explaining in instructions how to adjust it. I did not think I had to define the function further than i did which was incorrect. It is an assumption that has led us here today. Bridis I mean no disrespect or any hard feeling.

 

Regards Cliff Evans

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I don't think you're quite understanding what I said... THERE WERE NO SPECIFIC SETUP INSTRUCTIONS AT THE TIME OF MY TESTING. I tried tightening the Auto Plug to a point that I thought was safe to cycle all types of ammo and it still didn't reliably cycle low brass with the factory front recoil spring. If a product is released without sufficient setup data, you should expect problems. In the interim, TAC 47 or someone else has had ample opportunity to post video of extensive testing that says something different.

 

Instead of second guessing my testing you should ask why there hasn't been testing by others.

 

 

But thats exactly my point

 

A test is designed to measure something with repeatable and provable results. If you didn't take the time to be SURE you had it set up right, how can you be sure your results are correct?

 

 

 

There has been a lot of testing for the auto plug. Like I said I helped test it myself and saw how it functioned first hand. What I witnessed after the plug was adjusted to my S12 doesn't match what your results are, however right out of the box with no adjustment I did get exactly the same results you did and thats what leads me to believe the test results might be giving a false impression.

 

 

 

I'm not questioning your integrity, I believe your tests are straight and to the point. Only thing I am pointing out is if you didn't start from the correct settings, how can you be sure anything after that is an accurate result?

 

 

 

 

 

Z

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What are the differences between the Gasfixer plug and the MD V plug?

 

I have been using the factory plug on setting one for break in with Remington sluggers and Remington 00 buck. On our next outting I was going to use Remington / Federal bulk low brass on setting two to see if I have any issues. I bought a Gasfixer plug a while back but had not used it much. I wanted to buy the V plug to test all three.

 

My S12:

RAAC IZ-109 purchased in 2009

Converted 19" by Don Quinnell (Don's Guns) in Fort Myers, FL.

polished bolt, carrier, and FCG

KA puck

reduced power hammer spring

3 unobstructed gas holes

Chaos ext quad rail with Chaos sights

CAA stock adapter w/MOE stock

MD Molot grip

 

I have has zero malfunctions with slugs/buck on setting one (factory plug) using AGP 10s, Promag 12 drum, MD20 drum, Surefire 8s.

Edited by RABIDFOX50
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So i will pose the same question i asked in the TARGET testing thread, Has ANYONE been able to determine if this plug actually works as intended? as in set it and forget it, with NO damage to the gun and still cycling 100%?? If i had the ammo and a auto plug i would test it. I dont understand why there is no conclusive data on these plugs yet? Tac-47 wheres your videos?

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In my case, I wanted a plug that would restrict the gas flow a bit more than the original piece. My four-port gun would reliably cycle bulk Federal on the more restrictive setting with the original plug. I purchased a used Gunfixer plug and have been very happy with its performance. Perhaps a bit paranoid, but I also like being able to adjust the plug without pressing the button.

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For those of us who own/shoot FALs, this issue is easier to understand.

 

Adjusting the gas system to provide no more gas than necessary to cycle the action (locking the bolt open on an empty magazine in the FAL) gives reliability without excess stress on the receiver. It's a mistake to think that excess gas bled into the system is without adverse consequences over time.

 

There are gas-bleed plugs for the M1 series that attempt to do the same thing, cycle the action but bleed off excess gas. If it was universally successful I think we'd see more of these products in use. I've never used one because I don't use slow powders in my gas rifles.

 

Look at the gas control systems in all the other gas operated shotguns. Sure you can run them all on low-brass settings, but there's a high-brass setting for a reason, to extend the life of the shotgun.

 

So to the OP, if you're about to confront the zombie horde, and you want the gun to cycle now!, send all the gas to the piston 'cause you don't care about tomorrow. If you want to shoot a lot without breaking things, use no more gas then necessary to cycle the action. Seems simple, eh?

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I've had my Gunfixer plug for about 1 1/2 years now, I think it is a vast improvement over the OEM Russian plug.

As has already been said, the ability to change gas settings without having to use a knife or key or something is nice. It is also much easier to remove to clean the puck, just unscrew it.

 

When I bought my S12 it was a 2 hole vodka special that wouldn't cycle a damn thing. My solution: I got the Gunfixer plug and drilled oversized gas ports and I now (generally) shoot slugs on -1, buck on -1 or +1, and cheap stuff on +1 or 2.

I turn it on 3 whenever I hip fire to achieve good reliability.

 

Another distinct advantage to an adjustable gas system which I learned while a M240G gunner is that during sustained firing when the action starts getting gummed up, increasing the gas is a quick fix. Haven't had to, but I could do the same on my Saiga 12. This is obviously more of a SHTF concern than for recreational shooting. (Just clean it.)

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I'll try to answer the original poster's questions:

 

Q1: Why not leave the factory plug on the maximum setting?

A1: Because that would "over-gas" your shotgun. The bolt carrier would slam into the back of the receiver, and damage the gun eventually.

 

To adjust your factory gas regulator: Start with the "1" on the gas regulator next to the detent you push to turn it. It should click in place. This is position 1. It lets the least gas through your Saiga, for the hottest loads. Test a few rounds. If they all feed, leave it on 1. If the rounds do not cycle, move it to position 2. This will let more gas through, for weaker ammo.

 

Q2: Why not use a Tac-47 plug on it's factory setting (it is adjustable) and use it to cycle everything?

A2: I have a Tac-47 plug in my Saiga-12 at the moment. It does adjust, but not across the full range of the lightest 2-3/4" bird shot loads to the heaviest 3" buckshot & slug loads. You still have to adjust the Tac-47 plug. Adjusting it is harder than adjusting a factory plug.

 

Q3: Why have an after-market plug that has more adjustments?

A3: I prefer to set my shotgun to the lowest numbered setting (least gas setting; for the highest powered ammo) that will reliably cycle a type of ammo. More settings gives them finer grained controll over their gas system, which will hopefully prolong the life of their Saiga.

A4: The factory plug is made for guns with factory size gas ports. It regulates the gas coming through a factory gas port. Many of the posters here on http://www.Saiga-12.com drill out larger gas ports or more gas ports. This lets them cycle low power loads, like cheap bird-shot. It would also leave their Saiga overgassed (and damage the gun) if they fired heavy loads and did not tune down the gas regulator. Therefore, many aftermarket gas regulators allow even less gas than the factory gas plug.

Edited by RecycledElectrons
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Bridis,

 

The independent review is fine.. but the videos are contradicting, however that being said.. I dont mind you reviewing the plug.. but you have a video that has the autoplug cycling every other round, which is not accurate as you have said so your self. In the ideals of fairness one would think if the low brass video is no longer accurate then it would cease to exists as an accurate review, which people who are watching it seem to think. and this thread has 4000 views. I think you have proved your low brass video otherwise... any how.. I do appreciate you as a customer, and the fact that you went out of your way to make a video review, however i dont appreciate once it has been found inaccurate that is still is posted. Think of it if it was your product, some one tried it and posted a video of it not working, but never put the batteries in it.. I know that i own some of the responsibility, for not adequately explaining in instructions how to adjust it. I did not think I had to define the function further than i did which was incorrect. It is an assumption that has led us here today. Bridis I mean no disrespect or any hard feeling.

 

Regards Cliff Evans

 

The review is accuarte as posted. With 1.5 turns, my gun would not reliably cycle federal low brass ammo with the factory front spring installed. I even tightened the adjustmet screw to 2.5 turns and it still gave me problems.

 

The low brass and high brass testing were ONE test of the Auto Plug, Factory Plug and the Gunfixer. Not two different tests with different weapons or conditions. It was 1 complete test and the videos show exactly what happened during that test. I couldn't rightfully remove part of the testing without redoing the entire test.

 

I'm sorry. I do my best to explain to anyone who asks that I eventually got the Auto Plug to work with low brass ammo. But I haven't tested high brass ammo with the Auto Plug on the low brass setting. I can't believe that it's so hard to understand that it would be wrong for me to remove part of my testing without knowing if my new (undocumented) test had positive results. I could end up finding out that tightening the Auto Plug to the point where it cycles low brass ammo does significant damage to your gun when firing hig brass. Who knows??? I'll tell you what I do know... I'll change my results when my testing proves otherwise.

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But thats exactly my point What is your point?

A test is designed to measure something with repeatable and provable results. If you didn't take the time to be SURE you had it set up right, how can you be sure your results are correct? When I bought the Auto Plug it came set by the factory with no setup instructions. When things went wrong I read all the information I could find and applied it to my test. If there were no setup instructions and insufficient research data, how could anyone be SURE it was set up right?

 

 

There has been a lot of testing for the auto plug. Like I said I helped test it myself and saw how it functioned first hand. What I witnessed after the plug was adjusted to my S12 doesn't match what your results are, however right out of the box with no adjustment I did get exactly the same results you did and thats what leads me to believe the test results might be giving a false impression. Did you test your gun with mutiple types of high and low brass ammo? If so, I would be interested in a detailed report of how your testing went. Something more than, "It worked in my gun".

 

 

I'm not questioning your integrity, I believe your tests are straight and to the point. Only thing I am pointing out is if you didn't start from the correct settings, how can you be sure anything after that is an accurate result? When I did my testing, the factory setting was the correct setting. I then adjusted my Auto Plug to a point beyond what others had reported working and got the results shown in the video.

 

 

Z

 

I hope that helps you better understand my position.

Edited by Bridis
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Hey I offered help and was willing to make an indipendant test, but you didn't even respond to my pm about it. I could have done a review for ya...

 

That being said, the shotgun shot peffcect today. It was a blast. Hardly any jams on buck slug or bird... I had as much fun as shooting ma deuce, 240b, and my fav mk19

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How would you or anyone know if the Auto Plug was adjusted right in the video? Especially since it supposedly needs to be adjusted differently for every gun.

 

You should do some of your own in depth testing and prove the A.P. works with high and low brass ammo instead of wasting everyone's time speculating.

 

I remember a reading a post, a while back, of how the autoplug should be adjusted. After you adjusted it that way it worked with low brass for you. Maybe I read things wrong. Maybe I got lost read every thing about the S12. :unsure:

 

So was the autoplug adjusted properly in your first videos when it would not cycle low brass properly?

 

I did test all the plugs in my S12. I wrote very little about my test. Because my experience with gas plugs does not allow be be a valid tester. I mostly wrote about how far each plug would eject the empty shell. Which is not a valid test to show that any gas plug works or does not work.

 

All the gas plugs worked with all the ammo I tested in my S12.

 

I am using the autoplug because my first shot, for home defense, will be bird shot then the rest will be buckshot.

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Well two languages are my first language.

 

But that does not answer my question. So I went back and read threads again. Your autoplug was not adjusted properly in your first videos.

 

 

So you don't speak English very well...

 

You should try re-reading my post and then read it again.

 

GLHF.

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Your video has answered many of the questions I had about your plug. According to how I understand your straight forward instructions in the video, once I set the plug to the correct setting for my S12, it will fire all types of ammo (Slug, buck, bulk low brass) without any further adjustments?

 

A yes or no answer will complete the circle for me. :smoke:

 

If yes, I want one.

Edited by RABIDFOX50
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Well two languages are my first language.

 

But that does not answer my question. So I went back and read threads again. Your autoplug was not adjusted properly in your first videos.

 

 

So you don't speak English very well...

 

You should try re-reading my post and then read it again.

 

GLHF.

 

English is one of my first languages.

 

Sorry dude, but it is not my fault that you did not want to answer my question (with a yes or no).

 

Sorry dude, it is not my fault you spent all that money testing the autoplug and did not adjust it properly.

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It is a good video and the plug appears to work as advertised. You can cycle pretty much anything without changing the gas plug setting.

 

 

I am not bashing the vendor here because his product does work as advertised. I am only making observations that someone else may miss or have questions about.

 

First of all, I don't need and aftermarket plug, which is back on topic to the OP. My gun works flawlessly with the factory plug, and will run low brass on the number 1 setting barely. It runs much better with the cheap junk with it set to number 2. Whatever, it works and it's not overgassed.

 

Now with the disclaimer out there I will get to the observations.

 

The first video TAC- 47 put out there shooting on full auto, the gun ran like it had an accelerator on it. The cyclic rate was all over the place, but who cares, it worked reliably every time and who is going to be full auto anyway?

 

The new video shows that it is pretty easy to set it to run the low brass stuff, and it will cycle reliably with a myriad of ammo in the same magazine.

Cool.027.gif

I did however observe that the high brass spent shells came out of the gun like a bat out of hell. That is indicative of an overgassed gun.

Whether it is overgassed enough to cause problems I don't know because I don't have one.

My experience has been that on setting two with the factory plug, that the shells eject 4 to 6 feet from the gun.

It has also been my experience that on setting one with high brass, that the spent shells eject about the same, maybe a little further.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the norm for others running the factory plug on your weapons?

And it also looked to me in this latest video, that the spent high brass rounds were going much further than a factory plug on setting 1.

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Well two languages are my first language.

 

But that does not answer my question. So I went back and read threads again. Your autoplug was not adjusted properly in your first videos.

 

 

So you don't speak English very well...

 

You should try re-reading my post and then read it again.

 

GLHF.

 

English is one of my first languages.

 

Sorry dude, but it is not my fault that you did not want to answer my question (with a yes or no).

 

Sorry dude, it is not my fault you spent all that money testing the autoplug and did not adjust it properly.

 

 

OK guys, lets take a step back and cool off a bit. We are adults here. Bickering like that will get you nowhere. TAC47 stepped up and gave us the info we were looking for in regard to his plug. Take the info and judge for yourselves.

 

Overall we are all here for the same thing. Lets be "thankful" we have a place like this but lets also be respectful to each other.

 

Happy Thanksgiving guys.

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English is one of my first languages.

 

Sorry dude, but it is not my fault that you did not want to answer my question (with a yes or no).

 

Sorry dude, it is not my fault you spent all that money testing the autoplug and did not adjust it properly.

 

Then you're obviously not that bright.

 

1. You can't have more than one "first language"

2. When I did the test, THERE WERE NO ADJUSTMENT INSTRUCTIONS.

3. Sorry dude, it's not your fault you're too stupid to understand one of your first languages. :lolol:

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Then you're obviously not that bright.

 

1. You can't have more than one "first language"

2. When I did the test, THERE WERE NO ADJUSTMENT INSTRUCTIONS.

3. Sorry dude, it's not your fault you're too stupid to understand one of your first languages. :lolol:

 

 

Seriously, are you for real? You can't figure out how to set a gas plug and when you get called on it your response is to call someone stupid and insult their intelligence?

 

Any credibility you had just got flushed down the toilet, it's pretty obvious you don't have a clue.

 

 

 

Z

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Seriously, are you for real? You can't figure out how to set a gas plug and when you get called on it your response is to call someone stupid and insult their intelligence?

 

Any credibility you had just got flushed down the toilet, it's pretty obvious you don't have a clue.

 

 

 

Z

 

So that's all it take to flush my credibility down the toilet? Well I'm sure sillier dreams have come true.

 

If I must spell it out for you (slower people) I will.

 

When I bought the Auto Plug, there were no instructions. There were only a few people on the boards discussing it. In those discussions, people made reference to adjusting the Auto Plug .5 to 1 turn clockwise for it to work and those people had also enlarged their gas ports. I tried adjusting the A.P. 2.5 turns and it still didn't reliably cycle low brass. Seeing that I did not have my ports enlarged and I tried adjusting my A.P. to 2.5 turns, I didn't feel it was productive to continue testing because I might be adjusting the A.P. beyond intened design. It wasn't until I put out my video that instructional information started to be released and I found out that the A.P. may work with more adjustment. (ALL OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION HAS BEEN POSTED BEFORE.)

 

Now when someone is asked if they've read all of the information available and they say yes. Then they proceed to tell me I had the A.P. adjusted improperly. I think I'm within right to declare that person stupid. Why, you ask? Becuase if there were no instructions or guide to installation and adjustment, the factory adjustment would be considered "the proper adjustment". Any other adjustments beyond that would be considered gun specific. Do you understand now?

 

I'm going to do another test. When I do, it will compare the A.P. to the Factory Plug, the Gunfixer Plug and the MD Arms Plug. I will use a variety of ammo types (just like before) and do my best to show how the trunion is affected by each plug (which hasn't been done by anyone else). And if you don't find it credible, tough shit.

Edited by Bridis
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Let me get this straight...you clearly said you didn't know how to set the autoplug, but apparently your test is still valid even though you didn't even know if it was set up correctly.

 

 

And when someone points that out to you, somehow we're the ones that are stupid? Seriously, this is your argument?

 

Sounds like what little kids do when they get caught in an argument they can't defend, they just call everyone else stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

Have fun with that.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

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English is one of my first languages.

 

Sorry dude, but it is not my fault that you did not want to answer my question (with a yes or no).

 

Sorry dude, it is not my fault you spent all that money testing the autoplug and did not adjust it properly.

 

Then you're obviously not that bright.

 

1. You can't have more than one "first language"

2. When I did the test, THERE WERE NO ADJUSTMENT INSTRUCTIONS.

3. Sorry dude, it's not your fault you're too stupid to understand one of your first languages. :lolol:

 

 

 

Bridis, I bow to yourinfinite wisdom, unparalleled message delivery skills, and high credibility in language arts, which have finally clarified and evidently and undoubtedly proven to all readers that if a person's first language happened to be anything other than English, if he or she happened to be brought up in a bi-lingualhome, or if that person is not as versatile in conversing in the language asyou are, or if that person has miserably failed to decipher the hidden message in one of your previous insightful posts, that you, the flagship of the first testers of the new product, were denied the opportunity to educate yourself further by consulting a necessary detailed manufacturer's manual prior to finding yourself at a great financial loss derived from all the needlessly depleted ammunition, which otherwise would have been properly spent for the good of the humanity, this person is simply "Stupid" and "Slow"…

 

As one of the people standing the crowed of the "Slow" and "Stupid", I appeal to you, please, please, please oh mighty, come down from your cross and spend a few days with us, educating us, enlightening us, illuminating our path to knowledge so that one day we could walk in your footsteps and maybe feel, experience, and understand what greatness really is!!!

 

In the event that you find it impossible and beneath you to keep it civil, without personal attacks and/orname calling, I know for a fact that there are newer and better forums that endorse this kind of behavior and would love to have you as a posting member! (I am sure they will contact you and offer you a membership there very shortly because they need the active posters and numbers!!!) We will absolutely hate to see you leave and miss you a lot!

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I was never attacking anyone because of what language they spoke, nor did I mean to intimate that someone was somehow intellectually inferior because they didn't speak English. I was simply trying to understand why this guy who appeared (by the way he structured a sentence) to speak a different language wasn't comprehending what I was saying. Once he said that English was "one of his first languages", I could only assume that his level of comprehension was in question.

 

I'm sorry you feel that you are "Stupid" or "Slow". That was directed specifically towards the individuals I was having issues with. You on the other hand seem quite intelligent. I'm sure that you can see how someone who put so much time, money and research into something might get a bit insulted when someone with a number for a name and a 267 post count tells them that they don't know what they're doing. Maybe that person should learn to be a bit more tactful when they approach a disagreement if they expect to be treated respectfully.

 

I'm sorry you had to get involved.

 

Sincerely,

Bridis

Edited by Bridis
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