Planning to convert a 5.45; what do I need to buy?

[Vintovka1891 1]

Just ordered my first Saiga rifle (5.45x39mm) from Carolina Shooter's Supply. It is not my first AK, however, I have no experience with major gunsmithing work on these rifles. I have watched videos online and read information on this site about the conversion, but I still can't seem to understand what is needed to be 922r compliant and have an AK-style Saiga. I have no problem with the front handguard and gas tube, and actually like their look. I do want to move the trigger assembly forward, install a pistol grip and k-var butt stock. I already have a NATO length butt stock, and a SAW-style and traditional AK-style pistol grip. All of that furniture is US made, so that is 2 US parts. What else do I need to buy to make the gun 922r compliant?

 

Is the Tapco G2 trigger group recommended? Or should I spend the extra bucks on the Arsenal trigger group? I saw that some sites are selling modified trigger groups to fit the Saiga (Tromix modified I believe). If I purchase a standard Tapco or Arsenal trigger group, would I need to modify it?

 

Also, I've heard varying reports about the 5.45 Saigas being able to use standard 5.45 mags without the need to install a bullet guide. Is that true for all Saiga rifles? I'd be using foreign manufacture 5.45 mags as I already have a bunch for my other 5.45 AK; so those can't count towards 922r.

 

Any help and advice is appreciated. Thank you.

[deadeye956 4]

go to www.carolinashooterssupply.com they sell most of what you need and have videos on how to install it. i am in the same boat as you, and that has to be a great first start. you need a drill to do the mods which seems easy. if you have a drill press that is perfect but not needed. i have heard the same thing about the bullet guide not being needed. good luck. oh looking at pics from the 7.62x39, 223, and 5.45 build is a big help.

[jimdigriz 580]

What else do I need to buy to make the gun 922r compliant?

Nothing but a U.S.-made trigger group.

 

Is the Tapco G2 trigger group recommended? Or should I spend the extra bucks on the Arsenal trigger group? I saw that some sites are selling modified trigger groups to fit the Saiga (Tromix modified I believe). If I purchase a standard Tapco or Arsenal trigger group, would I need to modify it?

No, you wouldn't need to modify it. However, I do suggest picking up a Krebs retainer plate to secure the trigger group.

 

I use and like the Tapco FCG, but you ought to be aware that it is easy to bumpfire accidentally with this trigger group. Shouldering it loosely and pulling the trigger just past the break point but not all the way through often results in a bumpfire. It's a training issue for me, but some may want to avoid the potential for this problem altogether.

 

Also, I've heard varying reports about the 5.45 Saigas being able to use standard 5.45 mags without the need to install a bullet guide. Is that true for all Saiga rifles? I'd be using foreign manufacture 5.45 mags as I already have a bunch for my other 5.45 AK; so those can't count towards 922r.

A bullet guide should give reliable function in all rifles. If you are going to restore it to proper AK configuration, you should do it in this area as well.

 

Jim

[TX-Zen 287]

I wouldn't spend the money on the Arsenal, they come in all the SGL series and I've ditched them for Tapco G2's. The Arsenals tend to be long and gritty, generally an unpleasant feeling trigger.

 

I've never had a G2 bumpfire accidently, I wouldn't make a global statement about that based on the experience with one rifle. Tapco makes a lot of crap but the G2 isn't in that category, pretty much everyone I know uses them for good reason.

 

 

Bullget guide's do not seem to be necessary with the 5.45's so if you get reliable function without it I wouldn't worry about adding one, but it's true that service rifles have them for a reason.

 

 

 

 

You could also add US floor plates and followers to your mags if you wanted extra 922 parts, I went that route on all my mags and so only need 4 parts on the rifle itself.

[Vintovka1891 1]

How many US parts does the trigger group count for? Do any online distributors sell the entire FCG as a package? Best price online for complete package?

 

Thanks.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

The US Trigger group is 3 parts for 922r.

 

All you need for a conversion is:

 

Pistol grip

Pistol Grip Nut

Retaining plate

TAPCO G2 or Arsenal FCG

K-Var stock

 

and you're good to go with a 5.45. You may want a bullet guide, however many 5.45 will feed fine without one. Carolina Shooter's Supply has most of this stuff.

[jimdigriz 580]

I've never had a G2 bumpfire accidently, I wouldn't make a global statement about that based on the experience with one rifle.

 

It's not just one rifle. It's happened with three of my rifles, and I bet I can get it to happen with any rifle that has a G2. You can find other reports on this forum, Warrior Talk, and other places too if you Google around a bit.

[L5K 162]

You only need to modify the Tapco G2 if you plan on using the bolt hold open with it. All that is required is a small amount needs to be taken off of the right side of the area that the hammer pivots on in order to clear the bho plate.

[Vintovka1891 1]

You only need to modify the Tapco G2 if you plan on using the bolt hold open with it. All that is required is a small amount needs to be taken off of the right side of the area that the hammer pivots on in order to clear the bho plate.

I think I would like to keep the bolt-hold-open. Is that hard to do? Can I buy the FCG already modified?

 

Also, I've seen a lot of vendors selling the Tapco G2 FCG, but it doesn't mention including all of the springs and coils. Is it a given that those are included with the package deal?

[beefcakeb99 572]

I've never had a G2 bumpfire accidently, I wouldn't make a global statement about that based on the experience with one rifle.

 

It's not just one rifle. It's happened with three of my rifles, and I bet I can get it to happen with any rifle that has a G2. You can find other reports on this forum, Warrior Talk, and other places too if you Google around a bit.

Heh, (edit) malfunctions are not accidental.

 

You only need to modify the Tapco G2 if you plan on using the bolt hold open with it. All that is required is a small amount needs to be taken off of the right side of the area that the hammer pivots on in order to clear the bho plate.

I think I would like to keep the bolt-hold-open. Is that hard to do? Can I buy the FCG already modified?

 

Also, I've seen a lot of vendors selling the Tapco G2 FCG, but it doesn't mention including all of the springs and coils. Is it a given that those are included with the package deal?

you can reuse your springs for the hammer and for the disconnect.

Edited November 29, 2010 by beefcakeb0

[Vintovka1891 1]

Thanks

[jimdigriz 580]

I think I would like to keep the bolt-hold-open. Is that hard to do? Can I buy the FCG already modified?

 

I would recommend against it. By keeping it, you are compromising the reliability of your rifle. Many people on this forum have seen the thing pop out and snarl the proper cycling of the rifle. A BHO is a mere range convenience, and not worth the potential trouble. Get a chamber flag.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Yeah there really is no need for the BHO. It's just as easy to pop a spent cartridge or a 50 cent chamber flag in the gun if your range requires it.

[toshbar 36]

I kept the bolt hold open and shaved down the button. It only protrudes maybe 1/16" below the receiver and you really have to intend to push it for it to catch the bolt.

 

I also polished my G2 single hook trigger on the contact surfaces. Brasso and a shoestring do the trick. It really smooths out the trigger pull, but it still has a bunch of pre-travel.

 

Those of you 'accidentally' bumpfiring: you need to follow through with your shot and hold the trigger to the back for a moment.

[Vintovka1891 1]

Can the original trigger guard be re-used, or would I need to purchase a new one?

[toshbar 36]

Can the original trigger guard be re-used, or would I need to purchase a new one?

 

Original one can be used. Just be careful when removing it from the bottom plate. I used a chisel and a hammer to separate it at the front spot weld. I then slid the front right underneath the magazine release and secured the rear with a small bolt through the existing hole in the receiver.

[7N6Wolf 61]

I use and like the Tapco FCG, but you ought to be aware that it is easy to bumpfire accidentally with this trigger group. Shouldering it loosely and pulling the trigger just past the break point but not all the way through often results in a bumpfire. It's a training issue for me, but some may want to avoid the potential for this problem altogether.

 

I know these triggers break with extreme ease, but I have never had any accidental bumpfires with the one I installed in my SAR-1 some time ago. I will probably install one of these with my Saiga 5.45 when I get it. But on this note, I will try to be even more careful from now on when using my SAR-1 and future Saiga 5.45 (I am waiting for a local store to get one in stock for me) with these triggers just to be on the safe side.

 

Also, I've heard varying reports about the 5.45 Saigas being able to use standard 5.45 mags without the need to install a bullet guide. Is that true for all Saiga rifles? I'd be using foreign manufacture 5.45 mags as I already have a bunch for my other 5.45 AK; so those can't count towards 922r.

A bullet guide should give reliable function in all rifles. If you are going to restore it to proper AK configuration, you should do it in this area as well.

 

Jim

 

I have heard about a lot of Saiga 5.45's being able to get by without a bullet guide when one uses AK-74 mags, but I will test mine out to see how it works before going forward with this. I may need to get a bullet guide, I may not. Admittedly, I have virtually no experience with modifications, but I have heard that they are easily done, so I may try this sometime in the future (I have heard that a drill with a cobalt bit and a Dremel tool will do most of what you need). I am a bit nervous and I do vacillate when it comes to doing a full conversion. Perhaps I will get multiple Saigas and try different things - perhaps I will do a partial conversion on my first Saiga and see how I like it (maybe I will use that Tapco stock that works without moving the trigger assembly forward) and try a full conversion on some other Saigas later on when I feel more confident. Not to mention that converting various Saigas will probably be a fun hobby that will not prove to be prohibitively expensive (If I was able to afford an M1A, I can afford Saigas and conversion parts without too much trouble).

[essohbe 47]

"I know these triggers break with extreme ease, but I have never had any accidental bumpfires..."

 

- Yea, me either, my WASR has one. They do bump fire VERY easy on pupose though.

 

Here's the thing about Tapco:

 

The parts are not made to very exact specs so you will have to do some modifying, unless you don't know any better and think it's fine, especially the retainer plate.

 

As it was said in another thread, it seems as if the trigger hook isn't spaced correctly and lets the hammer sit too high in the reciever when engaged. This drags on the bolt as it passes over the hammer from it's forward travel.

The WASR rifles get blamed for being shitty for this, but it's actually the Tapco trigger group that is the problem in all of them I've been able to examine.

 

Anyone else thought of stamping "USA" on a Bulgarian trigger group also? Lol... J/K.

 

"I have heard about a lot of Saiga 5.45's being able to get by without a bullet guide when one uses AK-74 mags"

 

- Mine needs one for certain mags. A got a retarded Bulgy one, it sat low in the rifle and was too "wide" & so it didn't want to fit in the magwell very easy. It also can depend on the bullets themselves. Hollow points jam against the breachface easier than the FMJ ones.

 

The guides are easy to put in unless you break the tap off in the trunion (which will probably happen unless you use a big tap). The best thing is the bolt method. I broke my tap in the trunnion but I think it will stay put because I tapped through the bullet guide also and it's stuck to the trunion now.

[SgtRaven 531]

Hi Guys,

 

Your information is priceless!

I will pick my 5.45 mm Saiga this week and making the list of future upgrades right now.

I really want to combine classy AKS-74/ AK-101 look with functionality of the AR-type upgrades (rails, etc.).

 

I tend to scale back from BHO and modified G2 after reading comments above, but would love to have triangle-style foldable stock (without cutting the receiver).

Most of the parts lined up for Carolina Shooter's Supply (Greg is awesome).

"Standard" stuff: AK74-style muzzle break, Molot-style grip, bullet guide, etc.

 

Which mags you trust the most?

Which trigger group you would recommend?

Any other recommendations?

 

Thanks in advance!

[toshbar 36]

 

Which mags you trust the most?

Which trigger group you would recommend?

Any other recommendations?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Bulgy surplus magazines work great. Mine are not the "almighty bulgy circle 10" magazines, but they were 9 bucks each and came with a pouch from aim surplus. They have metal feed lips and locking tab. I didn't have to put in a bullet guide either, as a lot of other 5.45 shooters are not either.

 

I've had 3 tapco G2 groups and have nothing bad to say about them. I polished the contact surfaces and adjusted one for pretravel/overtravel. Thread on that here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=60579

[jimdigriz 580]

I tend to scale back from BHO and modified G2 after reading comments above

 

I would never personally modify my trigger group. Just buy them and install them. I don't want to allow the ATF to be able to say that I modified my trigger group to create a machine gun (if the gun should malfunction). Yes, it has happened.

 

 

Which mags you trust the most?

 

Buy some new Circle 10s from K-Var for your go-to mags. (I prefer new springs in my home defense mags). Buy a bunch of surplus ones (Circle 10s and 21s and sanitized Russian mags) from Aimsurplus or whoever. Make sure to function test all of those by firing a full magazine. I've had one with a bad spring.

 

The Circle 10s are a no-brainer. They've been extensively tested for more than 30 years on the battlefield in Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya, and lots of other places, and have proved their merit. Don't even consider a U.S.-made mag for the 5.45.

 

EDIT: Basically any of these are good:

A Guide to 5.45x39mm Kalashnikov Magazine Types

 

Jim

Edited December 14, 2010 by Jim Digriz