Bolt on Retainer

[BuzzKillin 21]

Hey all

I haven't posted for a while, so I hope you all are well. Yesterday, I used one of the carolinashootersupply's bolt on retainers, and added some Kvar furniture to my Saiga. I followed the instructions, but since it was the first time I have done this, I wanted to hear if you guys could check my math. In the name of helping other with this project, I posted a video here:

 

Let me know if I did it right. I want to correct the video if not.

 

Thanks

[GregM1 241]

thats a good video buzzk. i would call that the "very proper" way of doing it. When i did mine, I held it with my legs. Then I used needlenose pliers to hold my retainer and whacked it on in one hit with a rubber mallet. Didnt try the c-clamp method. While dremeling, I used a tungsten carbide bit for the barrel notch. I had the retainer placed as tight a I could hold and dremeled through the screw holes until I could force the screw through.

[BuzzKillin 21]

thats a good video buzzk. i would call that the "very proper" way of doing it. When i did mine, I held it with my legs. Then I used needlenose pliers to hold my retainer and whacked it on in one hit with a rubber mallet. Didnt try the c-clamp method. While dremeling, I used a tungsten carbide bit for the barrel notch. I had the retainer placed as tight a I could hold and dremeled through the screw holes until I could force the screw through.

 

Thanks buddy. Good to know I wasn't COMPLETELY off. I was worried a little bit about the depth of the notch..

[Froms 4]

Great video BuzzKillin,

 

I struggled twice in 5 minutes sessions with a standard vise. It never went shooting off, but it kept slipping. My biggest concern was damaging the rifle or the retainer.

 

One day I was at work and walked by a large wood vise. I figured it was worth a try. Once I had it lined up it took less than 10 seconds to slide on. Slow, constant controlled pressure with no slipping and there were no marks on the rifle or the retainer. I could have used wood vise 1/4 to 1/2 the size, but this one was available.

 

 

At the range my retainer slid loose/forward after ~ 40 rounds. I took it home and used red LOC-TITE on the nut. Next range session it stayed in place, but I still don't trust it. With your fine video, I am going to notch my barrel.

 

Off topic: Your youtube video on the Leatherwood CMR has sold me. Was 90%, now 99% sure.

 

Thanks,

Froms

[BuzzKillin 21]

Great video BuzzKillin,

 

I struggled twice in 5 minutes sessions with a standard vise. It never went shooting off, but it kept slipping. My biggest concern was damaging the rifle or the retainer.

 

One day I was at work and walked by a large wood vise. I figured it was worth a try. Once I had it lined up it took less than 10 seconds to slide on. Slow, constant controlled pressure with no slipping and there were no marks on the rifle or the retainer. I could have used wood vise 1/4 to 1/2 the size, but this one was available.

 

 

At the range my retainer slid loose/forward after ~ 40 rounds. I took it home and used red LOC-TITE on the nut. Next range session it stayed in place, but I still don't trust it. With your fine video, I am going to notch my barrel.

 

Off topic: Your youtube video on the Leatherwood CMR has sold me. Was 90%, now 99% sure.

 

Thanks,

Froms

 

Hey man, thanks for the reply and the info. I'm looking forward to getting it to the range for testing. I'm glad you liked the CMR vid. It's a fun scope, and cheaper now than when I got mine. It's pretty heavy, but I still like it a lot.

[GregM1 241]

I was worried a little bit about the depth of the notch..

 

 

I watched the vid again. Around 7m9s, you are having to screw the screw in. I would take that as a good sign it will not shift. The only point I would suggest to watch for, when using the flanged bits like that one used in the video, watch the overall width of the notch. Too wide could cause your handgaurd to wiggle. The tungten carbide cutter I used is like a standard drill bit in shape. It was easy to cut a straight line notch.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

+1 for you. Good video.

 

You've probably saved some people from pulling their hair out. Looking forward to what you think about it after shooting it.

[rob-cubed 74]

I use a chainsaw sharpening stone and a Dremel to cut my retainer notch. I forget which size stone it is, but it makes a perfect groove for the retaining catch.

 

I also modded my own handguard retainer by first removing the retaining catch... then cutting through the block at the top and relieving material on either side so it will bend outwards, same as CSS's version. Once I got it over the barrel I reinstalled the original pin/catch and peened the end over to keep it in place. It doesn't come loose like the bolts do and looks almost like the original, but of course it's more work and needs to be painted.

 

I used a log splitting wedge to push apart the tabs far enough to get it over the barrel. Yeah, that part's a bitch.

 

Thanks to all you forum members for getting me motivated to take on projects like this.

[stnls1911 55]

Definitely thinking about getting the CSS handguard retainer, my barrel is already notched. By the way BuzzKillin, that was a nice video. Definitely save me some time after I order mine!!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Awesome video, thanks a lot for posting it.

[leadslinger 37]

Great video saved everyone time. good job

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

[BuzzKillin 21]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Much appreciated, and good to get confirmed by experts that I wasn't completely off base. Whenever I talk about conversions, I always throw people to the saiga-12 forum, because well.. it just rocks. Thanks again.

[BuzzKillin 21]

Hey Guys, I just wanted to doubleback here again, now that I've had it to the range and tested the bolt on retainer. The short is, no issues whatsoever. Stayed on during the session, and upon closer inspection, had no slippage.

 

Check out the shooting vid here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrg0CNvL828

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Hey Guys, I just wanted to doubleback here again, now that I've had it to the range and tested the bolt on retainer. The short is, no issues whatsoever. Stayed on during the session, and upon closer inspection, had no slippage.

 

Check out the shooting vid here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrg0CNvL828

 

Nice. Glad to hear it's holding up so far. Thanks for the update.

 

 

 

 

(I gotta be the queer and ask....what kind of camera are you using? It looks amazingly clear, considering YouTube usually turns decent quality vids into crap)

[essohbe 47]

We were talking about these in the 5,45 forum. Brownells has an anodized aluminum one now that goes right on very nicely. No spreading or heat tempering needed. I got it for my rifle but you still have to notch the barrel a tad. The screw isn't as long either so I doesn't stick out and look weird.

 

If you don't want to cut your notch in the barrel so deep (you should notch it a small bit however, to help hold it in place) strip the threads in the very middle that will be contacting the barrel. This part of the bolt doesn't do any of the work holding it together anyway. Make sure you LEAVE THE ENDS ALONE! The ends of the bolt are what does the holding.

 

With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep.

 

 

[22_Shooter 1,560]

We were talking about these in the 5,45 forum. Brownells has an anodized aluminum one now that goes right on very nicely. No spreading or heat tempering needed. I got it for my rifle but you still have to notch the barrel a tad. The screw isn't as long either so I doesn't stick out and look weird.

 

If you don't want to cut your notch in the barrel so deep (you should notch it a small bit however, to help hold it in place) strip the threads in the very middle that will be contacting the barrel. This part of the bolt doesn't do any of the work holding it together anyway. Make sure you LEAVE THE ENDS ALONE! The ends of the bolt are what does the holding.

 

With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep.

 

 

 

I just found it on Brownells. It's only $19.86 with the discount. I might have to try it.

 

It says it's made by Vulcan Arms. Is that the Vulcan Arms? As in Hesse/Blackthorne/etc, etc, etc? I know it's not really a load bearing part, but if it's the same Vulcan company that's famous for putting out garbage guns......quality is my main concern.

 

 

Can you post up some pics of it installed, and let us know how you feel about the quality of the part itself?

[GregM1 241]

 

If you don't want to cut your notch in the barrel so deep (you should notch it a small bit however, to help hold it in place) strip the threads in the very middle that will be contacting the barrel. This part of the bolt doesn't do any of the work holding it together anyway. Make sure you LEAVE THE ENDS ALONE! The ends of the bolt are what does the holding.

 

With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep.

 

 

I did this twice on the original use of my retainer. Both screws broke after about 100 rounds. I would just recommend making the notch a proper depth, just go slow and check often if you worried about over cutting.

[GregM1 241]

I just found it on Brownells. It's only $19.86 with the discount. I might have to try it.

 

It says it's made by Vulcan Arms. Is that the Vulcan Arms? As in Hesse/Blackthorne/etc, etc, etc? I know it's not really a load bearing part, but if it's the same Vulcan company that's famous for putting out garbage guns......quality is my main concern.

 

 

Can you post up some pics of it installed, and let us know how you feel about the quality of the part itself?

 

 

I was looking at the vulcan and blackthorne sites. neither had mention of this product. It looks like a nice alternative but it has no sling loop.

[essohbe 47]

Yea, I'll post pics when I get it installed. I probably won't have all the parts until middle of January sometime though.

 

 

It looks like a nice alternative but it has no sling loop.

 

- Yea, the one drawback. I don't put slings on mine so it's not a big deal to me but if anyone else wants to then there's this thingy that attaches to a rail that has a sling-swivel on it. You'd need a handguard with a rail then or one of the barrel-clamp on rails (like the NcStar ones. They are pretty decent for being an NcStar. I have one on a .920 barrel on another rifle).

 

 

 

It says it's made by [THE] Vulcan Arms... I know it's not really a load bearing part, but .... quality is my main concern.

 

- There's no way you're gon'na break this unless to try on purpose. It feels like the same quality T6 hard annodized aluminum I have another gun made out of. It feels exactly like my Rock River Arms AR quadrail. The only thing maybe how cold weather affects it (I live in Northern IL) but nothing has ever happened to my other stuff made out of the same material so that's about all I can really add to the conversation at this point.

 

To me, it's definately worth the $20 for not having to grind and press the gasblock off.

 

 

>"With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep."

>>I did this twice on the original use of my retainer. Both screws broke after about 100 rounds. I would just recommend making the notch a proper depth, just go slow and check often if you worried about over cutting.

 

- For Grreg or anyone interested, swap the 8-32 thread steel bolt out for the same thread in stainless steel.

It will not break like the POS hardened steel ones which are brittle. I argued with this guy at the hardware store about it, trying to tell me this hardened steel is the strongest. Of all the common metals I've drilled into, stainless steel and welding flux have been the hardest by far.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Kalashniklown

[canoecanoe 63]

We were talking about these in the 5,45 forum. Brownells has an anodized aluminum one now that goes right on very nicely. No spreading or heat tempering needed. I got it for my rifle but you still have to notch the barrel a tad. The screw isn't as long either so I doesn't stick out and look weird.

 

If you don't want to cut your notch in the barrel so deep (you should notch it a small bit however, to help hold it in place) strip the threads in the very middle that will be contacting the barrel. This part of the bolt doesn't do any of the work holding it together anyway. Make sure you LEAVE THE ENDS ALONE! The ends of the bolt are what does the holding.

 

With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep.

 

 

 

I just found it on Brownells. It's only $19.86 with the discount. I might have to try it.

 

 

It says it's made by Vulcan Arms. Is that the Vulcan Arms? As in Hesse/Blackthorne/etc, etc, etc? I know it's not really a load bearing part, but if it's the same Vulcan company that's famous for putting out garbage guns......quality is my main concern.

 

 

Can you post up some pics of it installed, and let us know how you feel about the quality of the part itself?

Edited December 7, 2010 by canoecanoe

[canoecanoe 63]

Where did you get the coupon code, Shooter?

[GregM1 241]

 

- For Grreg or anyone interested, swap the 8-32 thread steel bolt out for the same thread in stainless steel.

It will not break like the POS hardened steel ones which are brittle. I argued with this guy at the hardware store about it, trying to tell me this hardened steel is the strongest. Of all the common metals I've drilled into, stainless steel and welding flux have been the hardest by far.

 

 

thats a good idea. ill keep an eye out for one next time i go. they only had the hardened steel and i agree, they are too brittle. Even though i am using an unmodified one at the moment. as easy as the first two broke. i want to trade up.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Yea, I'll post pics when I get it installed. I probably won't have all the parts until middle of January sometime though.

 

 

It looks like a nice alternative but it has no sling loop.

 

- Yea, the one drawback. I don't put slings on mine so it's not a big deal to me but if anyone else wants to then there's this thingy that attaches to a rail that has a sling-swivel on it. You'd need a handguard with a rail then or one of the barrel-clamp on rails (like the NcStar ones. They are pretty decent for being an NcStar. I have one on a .920 barrel on another rifle).

 

 

 

It says it's made by [THE] Vulcan Arms... I know it's not really a load bearing part, but .... quality is my main concern.

 

- There's no way you're gon'na break this unless to try on purpose. It feels like the same quality T6 hard annodized aluminum I have another gun made out of. It feels exactly like my Rock River Arms AR quadrail. The only thing maybe how cold weather affects it (I live in Northern IL) but nothing has ever happened to my other stuff made out of the same material so that's about all I can really add to the conversation at this point.

 

To me, it's definately worth the $20 for not having to grind and press the gasblock off.

 

 

>"With a thinned out middle you then don't have to but into the barrel so deep."

>>I did this twice on the original use of my retainer. Both screws broke after about 100 rounds. I would just recommend making the notch a proper depth, just go slow and check often if you worried about over cutting.

 

- For Grreg or anyone interested, swap the 8-32 thread steel bolt out for the same thread in stainless steel.

It will not break like the POS hardened steel ones which are brittle. I argued with this guy at the hardware store about it, trying to tell me this hardened steel is the strongest. Of all the common metals I've drilled into, stainless steel and welding flux have been the hardest by far.

 

Sounds good. Thanks for the info.

 

Where did you get the coupon code, Shooter?

 

My buddy has a either a .mil or LEO status on his account there (current LEO, former .mil). One or the other, I can't remember. I think C&R license holders get the same discount.

[essohbe 47]

I think C&R license holders get the same discount

 

I didn't...

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I think C&R license holders get the same discount

 

I didn't...

 

Do you have it entered in with your Brownells account? Go into the settings and whatnot and look around. I actually think you don't even need proof of having the license . Look around.

[essohbe 47]

Here's what it looks like when it's finally on:

 

 

More in tech section if your interested.