Anti bullpup?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I think most people like bullpups - so long as they are designed as such from the get go (think FN family). What many people don't like are fly by night aftermarket conversion kits.

 

I think this sums it up nicely. +1

[MT Predator 2,294]

+2 to that!

The only bullpup I own is a Romy G in a KVAR kit. Handy? Hell yes! It ends there as the ergonomics to run it are all jacked up, safety behind the pistol grip/trigger, mag release awkward. Well, it is one of those afterthought kit guns.

I've fired an Austrian Army AUG, a Brit SA-80, as well as the civilian versions of the MSAR STG-556, FN 2000, and PS-90, all I thought were fine weapons, not awkward to run. I got to fondle a FAMAS in Afghanistan which was kinda funky not to mention ugly as shit for my taste. When they are purpose engineered/built, I have no problems with those bullpups though. Friend of mine in the Canadian forces told me they are starting to get TAR-21s to augment their Diemaco Carbines (M4s). Said they were pretty nice.

The Austrians who let me fire their AUG were very proud of it. The Brits hated their SA-80. The French didn't care as they weren't planning on getting into a firefight with their shit.

I did get some feedback from some SAS/SBS types over there from GB and Australia regarding the bullpups in their military's inventory as they were all humping some form of AR. The Australians said some company in Australia is contracted to build their AUGs and they are pure junk compared to their Austrian counterparts so their SOF elements carry ARs instead. Same goes for the Brits as they really don't care for the SA-80 in general so their SOF guys hump ARs as well when a carbine/rifle is required.

If I didn't have other projects going on and the coin to buy one, I would jump on the new STG-556 that accepts a standard GI mag instead of the model that requires the $40+ each proprietary mag.

Edited December 7, 2010 by MT Predator

[Zambidis 90]

I would jump on the new STG-556 that accepts a standard GI mag instead of the model that requires the $40+ each proprietary mag.

 

The thing about that is you can now get those mags for about $28 a pop and there is a $400-$500 up charge for the AR mag version. You can buy about 17 mags for the price difference. I sold a STG 556 right before the price drop. I got out of it what I paid for it. I first thought I might buy the E4 to go with my other AR mag weapons. Now I've considered buying the old version and ten mags for less than what I sold my old one for and less than the E4. One consideration though is the advantage of just having the commonality.

[RobRez 1,895]

A bullpup took my lunch money in grade school!

[MT Predator 2,294]

I'm still leaning towards the E4 as I am sitting on literally, a truckload of AR mags. My local firearms Intel guy, (buddy who is a dealer), says the price will drop on them when production catches up.

[mike12345 18]

Really, what does the location of the receiver have to to with which of your hands is dominate? Perhaps you are trying to say ejection port, which is a whole different and valid problem when refitting some designs... Since I am not left handed, and do not plan to convert, this is not a concern. I guess that most bolt action rifles are also trash, since left handed folks have trouble with them? You must have a freakishly odd body configuration to be able to shoot yourself in your own right arm.

 

im talking about getting shot by someone else in the right arm... your arm goes dead/no longer works. Now you have to fire left handed with casings ejecting into the side of your face.

 

bottom ejecting designs are ok but still slower to reload. bullpups are usuially a more complicated design thats harder to work on. Ever take apart a FAMAS?

 

As I have said, take the time to learn the manual of arms for a bullpup before you start telling everyone they do not work. They are reloaded more like a pistol then a rifle

 

Manual of arms is the movements we do in formation for drill and ceremony. I dont see how that would help.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mike123456

[mike12345 18]

As for how quickly shot spreads; that's a different story. If you want to hunt birds, go with longer barrels. For two-legged threat elimination, (almost always shorter ranges), shorter barrels provide a significant maneuverability advantage.

 

dont forget you can still run a choke on a SBS and not have a much wider pattern. You can also run TAP/Flight control and get tighter patterns without chokes.

[Azrial 1,091]

Really, what does the location of the receiver have to to with which of your hands is dominate? Perhaps you are trying to say ejection port, which is a whole different and valid problem when refitting some designs... Since I am not left handed, and do not plan to convert, this is not a concern. I guess that most bolt action rifles are also trash, since left handed folks have trouble with them? You must have a freakishly odd body configuration to be able to shoot yourself in your own right arm.

 

im talking about getting shot by someone else in the right arm... your arm goes dead/no longer works. Now you have to fire left handed with casings ejecting into the side of your face.

 

bottom ejecting designs are ok but still slower to reload. bullpups are usuially a more complicated design thats harder to work on. Ever take apart a FAMAS?

Nope, I am not French, however I have fired one. I find the average Bullpup no harder to work on then the average conventional rifle. I think it has little to do with were the action is located. Most bullpups can be fired one handed and are a lot handier for this then a conventional rifle.

 

As I have said, take the time to learn the manual of arms for a bullpup before you start telling everyone they do not work. They are reloaded more like a pistol then a rifle

 

Manual of arms is the movements we do in formation for drill and ceremony. I dont see how that would help.

The term also applies to the correct loading, unloading, mounting and other correct usage of a particular firearm. Like I have said, if you don't like them, don't buy one. But frankly there are a lot of shooters and modern military that do no agree with you.

[preparehandbook 326]

I keep seeing referances to "what if you get shot in the right arm" which sounds a little "mall ninja" to me. I think way to many people have mental images of themselves running around, arm blown off at the elbow, slaying adversaries by the score with an M4 wearing 12 pounds of silly accessories.

 

Ok, If I get shot in the right arm I'm gonna be worried about a lot more than brass in my face.

 

I can get behind the whole "ambidextrous shooting issue" but seriously, how many people practice firing offhanded enough to do other than waste lead? I've spent plenty of time practicing left handed (I'm normal, ie: right handed) and I cannot shoot well enough off of a rest to execute anything other than covering fire. I honestly have seen very few soldiers that can wield a weapon offhanded with any degree of effectiveness.

Edited December 10, 2010 by preparehandbook

[banshee 69]

I keep seeing referances to "what if you get shot in the right arm" which sounds a little "mall ninja" to me. I think way to many people have mental images of themselves running around, arm blown off at the elbow, slaying adversaries by the score with an M4 wearing 12 pounds of silly accessories.

 

Ok, If I get shot in the right arm I'm gonna be worried about a lot more than brass in my face.

 

I can get behind the whole "ambidextrous shooting issue" but seriously, how many people practice firing offhanded enough to do other than waste lead? I've spent plenty of time practicing left handed (I'm normal, ie: right handed) and I cannot shoot well enough off of a rest to execute anything other than covering fire. I honestly have seen very few soldiers that can wield a weapon offhanded with any degree of effectiveness.

 

you can buy a brass deflector for Microtech and Styer bullpups

[csspecs 1,987]

I don't consider myself anti bullpup. But I do think that wires have no place in a defensive rifles, safety or trigger group.

 

The trigger and safety MUST be strong or the rifle can quickly become a 8 pound ill shaped club.

[hoovco 0]

I would have loved to have a bullpup inside a gunners turret or a truck ... an M4 is kind of long to have in a turret or a vehicle.

[Chowderhead72 13]

This data is pretty revealing:

 

 

Very little muzzle velocity is lost by going with a shorter barrel on a shotgun. As for how quickly shot spreads; that's a different story. If you want to hunt birds, go with longer barrels. For two-legged threat elimination, (almost always shorter ranges), shorter barrels provide a significant maneuverability advantage.

 

My S-12 has a ~13" factory barrel, and I can still bust clays just fine with it.

 

ymmv.

 

Very revealing... I give you a big "Plus one" on that post.

[Zambidis 90]

im talking about getting shot by someone else in the right arm... your arm goes dead/no longer works. Now you have to fire left handed with casings ejecting into the side of your face.

 

First of all not all bullpups will even have an ejection path that hits you in face. Second I've wathced people fire bullpups left handed that did cause shells to actually hit them and it was somewhat anti climatic they just kept shooting. Third it is pretty easy to use one of a few techniques to not have it hit you anyways. In sum, its a non issue for some guns to begin with and a none issue for all of them if you actually know how to use your gun. I only see this critique from people with very little pullpup experience.

[banshee 69]

I don't consider myself anti bullpup. But I do think that wires have no place in a defensive rifles, safety or trigger group.

 

The trigger and safety MUST be strong or the rifle can quickly become a 8 pound ill shaped club.

 

 

just out curiosity, which bullpups have wire in them?

[jgillaspy 24]

I just checked and even the Steyr AUG uses wire (a bullpup from birth, not a conversion). See pg. 41. The common AK bullpup kit does as well.

 

JG

[banshee 69]

I just checked and even the Steyr AUG uses wire (a bullpup from birth, not a conversion). See pg. 41. The common AK bullpup kit does as well.

 

JG

 

I guess you could call the trigger rod a wire. The AUG has been in use since 1977 would no problems with the trigger wire/rod..

[preparehandbook 326]

OMG, just saw another wallet drainer, the dragunov in bullpup format. It's a factory build, but I think it could be duplicated pretty easy.

[akkalish 1]

the kvar bullpup sounds interresting ill have to try it will keep posted