.357 0 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 I just wanted to ask some questions regarding maintenance on these rifles. I have both a Saiga I did the conversion on and an SGL21. I wanted to clarify a few things with you guys. 1) After using a solvent in a rifle is it important to wipe away the solvent before applying lubricant? I heard that it will cause build up if the solvent is not wiped away. 2) I use break free CLP as my all around cleaner; should I not use it as my only solvent and Lube? Should I not be using different Lube and solvents or anything? 3) So I understand that I should not lube, or in my case apply any CLP to the piston, gas tube, and gas port or it will cause buildup correct? In that case how should I prevent rust in these areas? Thanks guys I appreciate the help. Also I understand the AK platform is a beast and can take a lot of abuse, but I still like to maintain my rifles when I have the means to do so; In short please do not say "you dont need to clean an AK" its not very helpful. Again thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 I just wanted to ask some questions regarding maintenance on these rifles. I have both a Saiga I did the conversion on and an SGL21. I wanted to clarify a few things with you guys. 1) After using a solvent in a rifle is it important to wipe away the solvent before applying lubricant? I heard that it will cause build up if the solvent is not wiped away. 2) I use break free CLP as my all around cleaner; should I not use it as my only solvent and Lube? Should I not be using different Lube and solvents or anything? 3) So I understand that I should not lube, or in my case apply any CLP to the piston, gas tube, and gas port or it will cause buildup correct? In that case how should I prevent rust in these areas? Thanks guys I appreciate the help. Also I understand the AK platform is a beast and can take a lot of abuse, but I still like to maintain my rifles when I have the means to do so; In short please do not say "you dont need to clean an AK" its not very helpful. Again thanks. 1. I always thoroughly remove the solvent before applying lubricant. Not sure how necessary that is, but I don't like to leave anything that can dissolve copper touching my gun. 2. I've never used that product, but I know others swear by it. I usually use Hoppe's, and once it's all been removed, whatever gun oil is close at hand. 3. The gas port and and gas tube are just steel, and can rust. The gas piston, on the vast majority of AK rifles, is chrome-plated, and does not need to be oiled. If you oil the bore with the rifle upside down (mag well facing up), enough oil will seep into the gas port to protect it. Over-oiling the gas system results first and foremost in the excess oil burning off when you fire the weapon next. This causes the rifle to smoke, and overheat much more quickly. If you're putting the weapon away for long-term storage, sure, over-oil everything. If you're just putting it away for a few weeks or months, don't bother oiling the gas system, or if you really feel the need to, just spray a little tiny bit in the gas tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Breakfree Cleaner Lbricant Prservative is as it full name implies both it was used on M16 as.all in one product. I use it on all weapons. If really grungy I use Ballistol as a cleaner. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Breakfree Cleaner Lbricant Prservative is as it full name implies both it was used on M16 as.all in one product. I use it on all weapons. If really grungy I use Ballistol as a cleaner. +1 CLP or Weapon Shield for me. (Pretty much the same) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) I've never heard AK and maintenance in the same sentence before. But seriously, the guys pretty much covered it already. Edited December 6, 2010 by Stansplace 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dudethebagman 222 Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) I use kind of a two-step process. I use Hoppe's first because it does dissolve some of the copper fouling. Usually I'll just run a patch through and let it sit overnight. The next day it will come out bluish with dissolved copper. The next day, I'll alternate a couple times between Hoppe's and dry patches until the patches come out reasonably clean. Then I use alternating patches of CLP and dry. The CLP seems to have some kind of penetrating/mechanical action - It brings up a lot more crud out of the barrel after the Hoppe's has done its job. Then I don't bother getting all the CLP out of everything, I'll just run a dry batch down the bore before I shoot the gun again. Probably overkill, but I'm a little anal retentive about keeping the bore clean. With the piston and gas tube I've noticed that leaving any oil on it will get it dirty faster. Really though, it's going to get dirty anyway, but not so dirty it has ever impaired function. Edited December 7, 2010 by Dudethebagman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
postbanben 9 Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 i clean mine every two weeks in that time i've prob shot two or three times. i usually have rust starting in my gas tube by then.i clean it with clp and then put a curled up towel through it till its dry.no more rust forms until i shoot again.i imagine some lube stays there as a film.i don't look at rust as something to avoid completely just keep it beaten back so it doesn't really take hold and start making holes.i poke at the gas port with clp on towels and let it sit . so far so good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I use either WipeOut or Ballistol for cleaning. I used to love Hoppes but it stinks up the basement, the other two are less toxic and seem to work just as well. They are also thicker and don't run like Hoppes. I after cleaning I run a patch or two of CLP through the barrel, gas tube, and areas that get exposed to residue. It dries thoroughly and resists dirt better than oil, while still acting as a rust preventative and dry lube. It's also good on the outside of the gun to protect from handling. However I don't feel like it's as effective a cleaner, lubricant etc as some other dedicated products. One product just can't do everything well. I use traditional gun oil on the rails, carrier, and spots where metal rubs metal. I keep it out of everywhere that get exposed to gas as this will cause premature fouling and burn off. If I'm putting my safe queens away, or anything into longer-term storage, they get a light coating of Eezox down the bore and everywhere else. It is the only thing I've found that will prevent rust even in fairly humid environments. WD-40 is the worst stuff you can use. It *will* bake into an enamel-like coating after years of use and shooting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.357 0 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Ok so just using CLP is acceptable, if I use solvents I should probably wipe them away before lubing. I shouldnt worry about lube in the gas system, but if I put a little in the gas system it wont cause any malfunctions, correct? I will probably put a little in the Gas system just to keep rust out. Then wipe it away before shooting since all it will do is burn away anyways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 ...I use Hoppe's first because it does dissolve some of the copper fouling... Just be careful of where you use Hoppe's. I managed to take a little bit of factory paint off of my barrel by using a Hoppe's-soaked patch and some elbow grease. I was trying to remove some polymer residue, (from firing poly-coated Russian rounds). I ended up removing both that and some paint, (didn't harm the park, of course). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stnls1911 55 Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I've been using Ballistol. I usually go a few months between range trips. It really helps with rust. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) I was using Ballistol exclusively (on my AK and M1 Carbine. Since I now also have a CAR-15, I switched back to CLP. Ballistol also removes copper fouling, is a great wood and leather treatment, and a topical anti microbial agent for cuts and scrapes. In WW I the Germans used it for all of the above, including preventing infections on cuts and abrasions! Edited December 8, 2010 by imarangemaster 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 So I understand that I should not lube, or in my case apply any CLP to the piston, gas tube, and gas port or it will cause buildup correct? In that case how should I prevent rust in these areas? When getting ready to fire it make sure the gas chamber and firing pin hole hole are bone dry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ok so just using CLP is acceptable, if I use solvents I should probably wipe them away before lubing. I shouldnt worry about lube in the gas system, but if I put a little in the gas system it wont cause any malfunctions, correct? I will probably put a little in the Gas system just to keep rust out. Then wipe it away before shooting since all it will do is burn away anyways. I probably wouldn't bother, especially if you shoot often. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) 3. The gas port and and gas tube are just steel, and can rust. In many rifles the inner gas port is bare steel but in saigas and veprs there is chrome lining. Edited December 8, 2010 by my762buzz 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 3. The gas port and and gas tube are just steel, and can rust. In many rifles the inner gas port is bare steel but in saigas and veprs there is chrome lining. +1 Yep, the gas block is factory chromed on Russian, (and Bulgarian, I believe), Kalashnikovs. I missed that on my first read-through. Good catch, 762Buzz. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.357 0 Posted December 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Wow I suppose it is chrome lined. In that case I probably wont even bother with lubing the gas system. I dont really shoot 'often' maybe 3 times a year but every time I do I put nearly a thousand rounds through the rifle If I did encounter rust in these areas how would I best remove it. I am just trying to take the absolute BEST care of my rifle possible. Also any other information I should know regarding any sort of maintenance is very welcome in this thread, and I would really appreciate it. Edited December 8, 2010 by .357 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
postbanben 9 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 if you haven't seen this this has some windy discussion on ak stuff.seems like your in the mood .there's a agonizing video on cleaning.also bolt dis assembly,tear down inspection and shit http://firearms.atactv.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Wow I suppose it is chrome lined. In that case I probably wont even bother with lubing the gas system. I dont really shoot 'often' maybe 3 times a year but every time I do I put nearly a thousand rounds through the rifle If I did encounter rust in these areas how would I best remove it. I am just trying to take the absolute BEST care of my rifle possible. Also any other information I should know regarding any sort of maintenance is very welcome in this thread, and I would really appreciate it. Rust is oxidized iron and like dead skin flaking off only needs a little effort to remove. A rag with any oil and some polishing will buff it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.357 0 Posted December 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) After some mild drinking I have figured out a way to ask my question best in order to ease my mind on the subject. Say you just spent a weekend shooting. You put nearly 2000 rounds through your favorite AK. How would you deal with that carbon build up in your 90 degree gas block? I want to know how YOU the experienced AK users clean and maintenance this particular part of your rifle. To me this seems like the one part of the AK that can easily become clogged with carbon buildup. I simply dont want to compound the problem. So what would YOU do after 2k rounds (lets say its even corrosive) to clean that gas block on YOUR prize rifle? Thanks for all the knowledgeable feed back. I can get hung up on certain things and my mind will not be at ease till I know the answer. I also just realized I could be using the wrong terminology. By gas block or gas port I mean the part near the front of the barrel that connects to the gas tube. The part that allows gasses from the barrel into the gas tube through a small hole. Sorry if my terms are incorrect (let me know if they are) Edited December 8, 2010 by .357 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 To me this seems like the one part of the AK that can easily become clogged with carbon buildup. I simply dont want to compound the problem. So what would YOU do after 2k rounds (lets say its even corrosive) to clean that gas block on YOUR prize rifle? I use gun slick foaming bore cleaner. It cleans the bore and gas port or carbon and copper all at once. You can leave it working for a long time and then wipe it out. On a further note, someone I remember on another gun board posted about his AK torture/endurance test through over 40,000 rounds of ammo without cleaning or lubing. I also distinctly remember about Pat Rogers famous AR 15 no cleaning but plenty of lubing endurance run of of over 20,000 rounds. Can I or anyone else verify this to any degree? Well probably not in either case but I don't think 2,000 continuous rounds will clog any gas port. Regular bore cleaners that work on carbon deposits would also clean the port hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.357 0 Posted December 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 So after looking through some articles online relating to this subject I can only seem to find stuff relating to 45 degree gas ports. It says that you can just use a wire hanger to make sure the 45 degree angled gas block is clear of residue by simply poking the wire through the gas vent hole. But no one seems to know how to clear the 90 degree gas block since the angle is to steep to put any sort of stick through. Any ideas or methods to this? what would the russians do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 So after looking through some articles online relating to this subject I can only seem to find stuff relating to 45 degree gas ports. It says that you can just use a wire hanger to make sure the 45 degree angled gas block is clear of residue by simply poking the wire through the gas vent hole. But no one seems to know how to clear the 90 degree gas block since the angle is to steep to put any sort of stick through. Any ideas or methods to this? what would the russians do? Steel dental pick would work fine but I wouldn't want to use it to avoid damaging the chrome lining. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magikbike 2 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 With the loose tolerances, oil on an AK type rifle isn't going to do much. There isn't anything to keep it in place,unlike a tighter mechanism like an AR. What I've always used is a good high temp grease, and when I saw the AGI vid, and then ATAC-TV's vids, I was pleased the find out that I'm not the only one. I've always used whatever cleaner I happen to have, even Simple Green, or brake cleaner in a pinch. I started using an expensive name brand grease type gunlube. But then, again in a pinch (I always clean after shooting, even if I'm not at home) the only thing I could come up with was brake pin lube. You know, the little packet that comes with a new set of brake pads? I was shocked by how good that worked. Brake pin lube, is high temp (obviously, it's right there in your brake calipers), it's VERY sticky and stays put well, it gets into the pores of the metal, and will keep lubing some even if it gets wiped off. Also, what a lot of people don't know is that brake pin lube is a moly base. Try it, it's worked for me for years. My brother is a mechanic, and had 30 to 40 floating in his toolbox last time I asked. I'm set for a few years! And even if you don't change your own brakes you can get a a tube from any car parts store. Way bigger tube, and cheaper than the name brand gun grease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Steel dental pick would work fine but I wouldn't want to use it to avoid damaging the chrome lining. Ya ain't going to damage your chrome by just cleaning your ports with a dental pick. Not unless you stick in a Dremel and start engraving Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Steel dental pick would work fine but I wouldn't want to use it to avoid damaging the chrome lining. Ya ain't going to damage your chrome by just cleaning your ports with a dental pick. Not unless you stick in a Dremel and start engraving I seen hard chrome get scratched enough times that I just would not take a chance. Yeah, it is still not exactly like barrel chrome lining but it makes the idea so uncomforting to consider. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 You mean you have to clean your AK ? Never heard of such a thing !!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 Ballistol. Soak a patch and stuff it in the gas block. Let it soak awhile. Then use a.pipe cleaner or two worked into the gas port. Ballistol removes copper fouling and carbon. AKs are basically self cleaning in the gas port area, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gundam83 0 Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 You mean you have to clean your AK ? Never heard of such a thing !!!!! This. Isn't that the main reason to get an AK in the first place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.357 0 Posted December 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 So I understand that I should not lube, or in my case apply any CLP to the piston, gas tube, and gas port or it will cause buildup correct? In that case how should I prevent rust in these areas? When getting ready to fire it make sure the gas chamber and firing pin hole hole are bone dry. Why should they be ''bone dry''? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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