t3mac21 1 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Well, it's officially cold as F*CK in NY now. I work outside all day and the last thing I want to do is sit outside to shoot some rounds after work. The indoor ranges in my area seem to be completely retarded. First of all, most are pistol/rimfire, 25 yards. The one that's 100 yards and nice as shit inside WILL NOT let you shoot ANY steel cased ammo. IDC what you say to them, you can show them the friggin box, offer to cut a f*cking bullet in half infront of them, etc. If it's "magnetic" at all, they won't let you shoot it. What is the deal with that? I mean, maybe they don't want steel getting into the buckets of brass they sweep up? I mean, I can't figure this shit out! * I have a ton of yugo, I shot that but, I don't always want to clean my rifle right after shooting. I mean, 100 rounds isn't a huge deal, if I shot non-corosive I'd probably just run a bore snake through it and be done....but corrosive requires a bit more. PITA /rant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 What is the deal with that? I mean, maybe they don't want steel getting into the buckets of brass they sweep up? I mean, I can't figure this shit out! Yes, chances are, they sell the brass and don't feel like sorting. Not to mention, not every gun is anywhere near as durable as a Saiga, some of them get fucked up pretty bad by steel case ammo, sometimes resulting in injury to the shooter (who will then turn around and sue the range) There are some nice ones out there I'm sure, but typically, indoor ranges are the bottom of the barrel as far as range rules go. IMO get a nice coat, some gloves, a hat, and get outside. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
into_the_knight 22 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Are you sure they don't mean steel core? Steel core could be bad because ricochets would be worse than lead and it could possibly go through their backstop. Steel case may be because of reloading the brass you guys leave behind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 IMO get a nice coat, some gloves, a hat, and get outside. I like to do this because I usually have the range to myself, or mostly to myself when it's cold. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 IMO get a nice coat, some gloves, a hat, and get outside. I like to do this because I usually have the range to myself, or mostly to myself when it's cold. Bingo. Better yet go to the woods young men! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Well, it's officially cold as F*CK in NY now. I work outside all day and the last thing I want to do is sit outside to shoot some rounds after work. The indoor ranges in my area seem to be completely retarded. First of all, most are pistol/rimfire, 25 yards. The one that's 100 yards and nice as shit inside WILL NOT let you shoot ANY steel cased ammo. IDC what you say to them, you can show them the friggin box, offer to cut a f*cking bullet in half infront of them, etc. If it's "magnetic" at all, they won't let you shoot it. What is the deal with that? I mean, maybe they don't want steel getting into the buckets of brass they sweep up? I mean, I can't figure this shit out! * I have a ton of yugo, I shot that but, I don't always want to clean my rifle right after shooting. I mean, 100 rounds isn't a huge deal, if I shot non-corosive I'd probably just run a bore snake through it and be done....but corrosive requires a bit more. PITA /rant A buddy and his family own a nice range in Houston with the same rules . All brass is dumped into a barrel for recycling, and they get dinged $$$$$$ if steel case is found in the barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magikbike 2 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 That sucks, but you're probably right ClassyK, it's likely about liability. I worked at a motorcycle dealership, and SO many decisions were heavily influenced by liability issues. That's the culture nowdays. If anything happens, the lawyers start circling like vultures. Here's a typical example: A guy came in to get his bike serviced. He acted like some sort of bigshot, and was mouthy. So, we threw him out. Never saw him again, until.... He was riding his bike early one Saturday morning on a windy frontage road. A few people saw him tearing down the road passing on both the right and left (2 lane road!). By skid marks, the police say he was traveling at over 70mph when he lost control and slid off the road, hit a rock, highsided, and flew head first into a concrete base for a celltower. Obviously, he was killed on impact. His helmet(helmet law here in CA) was strapped to the sissybar on the back of the bike. His bac was .31 His family sued every the manufacturer of the motorcycle. They sued an owned subsidiary of the manufacturer (they build a completely different brand) They sued the company that made the tires on the bike (even though they were much too big for his bike, but he had to have'em because fat tires are COOL!) They sued the helmet company (even though 1-the helmet wasn't on his head and 2-even if it was, he hit so hard that the helmet probably wouldn't have saved him anyway and even if it did keep his head from smashing like watermelon, his neck would have been broken) They sued the dealership he bought the bike from. They sued every dealership he ever stopped at. They sued the dealership I worked at, even though we kicked him out and never did any work for him, nor sold him anything, not even a t-shirt. They sued every aftermarket shop he ever stopped in at. Rather than fight it, the manufacturer settled it, because even though the family couldn't have won, it was cheaper to settle than to pay all the court costs, and deal with the bad press that the lawsuit would have attracted. That is what I call INSANE!!!! The guy got exactly what he deserved. Well, almost, he should have gotten a Darwin Award! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Has nothing to do with the steel case. The bullet jacket itself is actually made up of mild steel in cheap Russian ammo with a light copper wash on it (because steel is currently cheaper than brass). The cheap Russian ammo uses both a steel case and a mild steel jacketed bullet with a lead core in it. Supposedly (like already said) the steel jacket fucks up the backstop (+ the walls & roof ) of indoor ranges (not too hard to believe watching your average weekend warrior shooter), and can (supposedly ) cause sparking if shot outdoors in a extremely dry area and it hits a rock or something. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 (not too hard to believe watching your average weekend warrior shooter) Yeah, that's another thing. I have not been to a public indoor range in about a year and a half, but holy shit the things I saw on the weekends there. People crammed 3-4 to a booth drooling over their buddy's gun, people with 7-yard groups that look like 300 yard spray and pray, one guy who turned 180 out the booth with a loaded gun in his hand (and went unnoticed by the RO) and the master, master, master of all dumb fucks, the guy who actually attempted to retrieve a fallen target on a live range And worst of all these people think they're damn good! I used to get all pissed back then, until I took a step back and look at how many people own a gun and barely understand what end the bullets come out of. Then I understood why public indoor ranges make those rules. Generally outdoor public ranges don't attract as bad of a crowd as indoor (though they have a fair share of short bus types there too) and private clubs are usually where the fun is at as hardly any weekend warriors can be found there. And then of course lucky fucks like Bigsal with their own thousands of acres of woods have it the best! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dudethebagman 222 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Bingo. Better yet go to the woods young men! Indeed, that's what I do. It's still not a perfect solution. Sal - judging by your magazine review, I think we live in the same area. Classy - going to the woods isn't always the best either. The last 2 times I headed up Hayden Creek (a local shooting dump/gravel pit) I've had idiots drive right out in front of me. When I was sighting in my 308, a caravan of idiot redneck high schoolers drove their trucks right up the gravel pit in front of me, then proceeded around to the "road" along the top of the backstop. On a weekend a couple of months later, there were probably 4 or 5 cars at the place, and some doofus out-of-state walrus-looking fuck apple maggot drove his truck 50 feet in front of the firing line and started setting up his shit to shoot clay pigeons. My old man asked him what the hell he was doing. He didn't seem to see any problem. We just left. i haven't been back. Now I just go find a shitty clearcut somewhere where I know no one else will follow. The moral of the story is that people are idiots. The idiocy grows exponentially with the population density, and the draconian nature of the rules is in direct correlation with the idiocy. Because we live in a society of laws, we can't shoot these people. Instead, we make rules for everyone's safety. The indoor range and its rules are the end result of this process. The idiots live to pass on their genes, and I get pushed off my range. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Bagman just remember if the SHTF these idiots Will probably die first:) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Has nothing to do with the steel case. The bullet jacket itself is actually made up of mild steel in cheap Russian ammo with a light copper wash on it (because steel is currently cheaper than brass). The cheap Russian ammo uses both a steel case and a mild steel jacketed bullet with a lead core in it. Supposedly (like already said) the steel jacket fucks up the backstop (+ the walls & roof ) of indoor ranges (not too hard to believe watching your average weekend warrior shooter), and can (supposedly ) cause sparking if shot outdoors in a extremely dry area and it hits a rock or something. A local indoor range nearby refuses to allow any AK, AR, or Ruger Mini rifles supposeably because more often than not range visitors have used Russian ammo and the steel jacketing tearing up the steel back stops. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 My generation grew up with the draft, high percentage of military service, hunti g, and high school and boy scout rifle teams. Most males around 60 (except in SF area, haha). Are familiar with weapons. (guns are actually the.nomenclature for artillery pieces). Now days military service and hunting are rare, except in rural Midwest and south where its a cultural necessity.even when iwas a Tac Officer (drill Sgt. ) at. The police academy in 1999, all of the above was scarce. 95% of our recruits never held a firearm before the academy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Most males around 60 (except in SF area, haha). Not really, things were a lot different not too long ago. Here's a magazine ad from back in the day, of a company in California selling machine guns. And to think, nowadays you can't even have a pistol grip on anything that takes a detachable magazine there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Has nothing to do with the steel case. The bullet jacket itself is actually made up of mild steel in cheap Russian ammo with a light copper wash on it (because steel is currently cheaper than brass). The cheap Russian ammo uses both a steel case and a mild steel jacketed bullet with a lead core in it. Supposedly (like already said) the steel jacket fucks up the backstop (+ the walls & roof ) of indoor ranges (not too hard to believe watching your average weekend warrior shooter), and can (supposedly ) cause sparking if shot outdoors in a extremely dry area and it hits a rock or something. That's the reasoning I got at an indoor shooting range down here; most steel cased ammo also has a bi-metal jacket, which tears up their backstop quicker. Or so they say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akkalish 1 Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 bag mans got it right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 GEO, ever been to baileys in houston? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 GEO, ever been to baileys in houston? No. I'm located in NW Harris county and Shiloh is right down the street. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7N6Wolf 61 Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Well, it's officially cold as F*CK in NY now. I work outside all day and the last thing I want to do is sit outside to shoot some rounds after work. The indoor ranges in my area seem to be completely retarded. First of all, most are pistol/rimfire, 25 yards. The one that's 100 yards and nice as shit inside WILL NOT let you shoot ANY steel cased ammo. IDC what you say to them, you can show them the friggin box, offer to cut a f*cking bullet in half infront of them, etc. If it's "magnetic" at all, they won't let you shoot it. What is the deal with that? I mean, maybe they don't want steel getting into the buckets of brass they sweep up? I mean, I can't figure this shit out! It is all about the brass, really. They simply don't want to sort the steel out from the brass; they just want to sell that brass off to some company and get some money for it. I use an indoor range, but they are more reasonable than this - they do allow people to use steel cased ammunition, but they do not allow aluminum cased ammunition (I think Blazer makes it). This enables them to separate the steel from the brass with a magnetic device of some sort. Since they cannot easily sort out the aluminum cased stuff, they do ban this stuff. One of the range officers even told me this himself. The range I use no longer follows its rules as strictly as it used to. For instance, they do allow Russian steel cased stuff, even though they claim to ban steel jacketed, bimetal, etc. bullets. They also have officially banned steel core ammunition, but they sell and let people use surplus 7N6 5.45X39mm ammunition. They used to have all kinds of problems with the steel tracks on which the targets travel getting shot up all the time, but this was due to idiots shooting their rifles as quickly as possible while demonstrating beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt that they know nothing of the concept of muzzle climb. This often caused that track (it is along the ceiling above the lanes) to be damaged on a regular basis. To remedy this, they don't want people shooting too rapidly (unless they are renting a full-auto gun under range officer supervision). In addition to this, they drew a line on the cardboard piece hanging from the steel track, and one is not allowed to put the target above this line. In short, they said they had no problem with people using 7N6 as long as they did not hit the steel track or the arms on which the targets hang (also made of steel). I do not know what the backstop itself is made of, but they have a bunch of chopped airplane tires in front of whatever it is. This backstop must also be extremely durable, as they do allow .50 BMG to be used on this indoor range. * I have a ton of yugo, I shot that but, I don't always want to clean my rifle right after shooting. I mean, 100 rounds isn't a huge deal, if I shot non-corosive I'd probably just run a bore snake through it and be done....but corrosive requires a bit more. PITA It may not be the most pleasant thing for you, but this is what you are going to have to do if you want to continue to shoot indoors at a reasonable price. Either that or you should get something that will really help you withstand the cold (heavier coat, thermal underwear, etc.). Personally, I often bring multiple guns to the range, so I have to spend some time cleaning anyway. I feed M67 Yugo ammo through my SAR-1, but I manage to clean it rather efficiently. I start out by field stripping it and wiping the bore and interior parts down a bit with some dry patches. Then I spray everything down on that gun with glass cleaner and let it sit there while I clean my other guns (sometimes I will just do a bore cleaning on these, as I use non-corrosive ammo in them). Once I am done with the other guns, I will wipe the AK down, run a dry patch through the bore, and then go at it again, this time just doing a quick cleaning with patches soaked in glass cleaner. I then dry it off, clean the rest of it with Hoppe's #9, and put a light coating of oil in the bore, gas tube, inside the receiver, and on the exterior of the gun to help prevent any issues with rusting. Admittedly, my process of neutralizing corrosive salts is most likely overkill, but it is better to be safe than sorry. Yeah, that's another thing. I have not been to a public indoor range in about a year and a half, but holy shit the things I saw on the weekends there. People crammed 3-4 to a booth drooling over their buddy's gun, people with 7-yard groups that look like 300 yard spray and pray, one guy who turned 180 out the booth with a loaded gun in his hand (and went unnoticed by the RO) and the master, master, master of all dumb fucks, the guy who actually attempted to retrieve a fallen target on a live range And worst of all these people think they're damn good! People like this also show up to the place where I shoot, much to the chagrin of the range officers. If it weren't for liability issues, I am confident that the workers at the shop/range I use would be more than happy to let these puerile unsophisticates receive posthumous Darwin Awards. Edited December 12, 2010 by 7N6Wolf 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 7n6wolf , are you in texas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kope007 14 Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 I told this story in another thread but it pertains to this. My local indoor range looked at my brown bear and told me I couldn't use steel cased ammo... So I said "ok i'll buy some from you." He then tried to sell me Wolf classic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stnls1911 55 Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 I told this story in another thread but it pertains to this. My local indoor range looked at my brown bear and told me I couldn't use steel cased ammo... So I said "ok i'll buy some from you." He then tried to sell me Wolf classic! That is just too funny!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7N6Wolf 61 Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 7n6wolf , are you in texas? No. I am in Minnesota. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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