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#1 bohound

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:26 PM

I think it is high time that we start a thread here on how inferior the ProMag "Saiga magazines" are. Perhaps as a community, we can shame them into a redesign of their very disappointing product.

Come on folks- I'm reading about it in nearly every thread where the "pro"mag is mentioned... We all know the ballad of the breaking bullet guide, share your stories here to warn the unaware novice away from this product.

I did my part at a local gun show this past weekend- twice I saw people almost buying promag products, and I told them the story I'm about to tell you. I didn't win any vendor friends, but I will tell you this: Part of the problem in our country (in my eyes) is the willingness of folks to just silently tolerate. It's not "polite" or (gag) "politically correct" to point out flaws, or downright fraudulent or immoral behavior. I for one think it's a pack of Bravo Sierra, but that's for another thread.

Here's my (final) experience with ProMag:

About a year ago, with my restored .223 running great with Surefires (no BG-yet), I saw an ad somewhere for Saiga .223 mags for like $15! (this is when Surefires were still like $40 a pop). Now I'm surrounded by veterans- My husband, brother, uncles, friends... Surrounded. One thing I learned from them is that one can never have too many spare magazines, or too much ammo. I jumped with glee when I saw $15 mags for my Saiga!


Cautiously, I bought two. I figured I couldn't lose at that price, but I wasn't going for broke until I tested the snot out of these babies.

When I got them, I went to the range the first time, loaded one, and proceeded to the firing line. I charged my rifle, aimed, and squeezed off the first round. Then a first for me happened (and I hope the last). The bolt carrier did not slam into battery as normal. I safed the rifle, and looked into the chamber. It appeared the next round had slammed it's nose into the bottom of the barrel, compressing the round into the casing a bit. I cleared it, and prepared to shoot again, but noticed the next round had done the same thing.

Well, I thought... Time for a closer look. I took out the mag and inspected it. It appeared normal at the time (I was still a relative Saiga novice). Upon further inspection and comparison with it's twin, I noticed this magazine had snapped off it's integral BG. No problem I thought... Lifetime warranty!

I loaded up the other ProMag, and fired without incident (in PA, at a public range, this is 3 rounds by law. I know- totally weak). I reloaded, and when I inserted the mag into the rifle this time, THIS mag's BG broke off. I thought "What a POS!". Then I switched to my Surefires and enjoyed trouble free, reliable operation the rest of the outing.

When I got home, I decided to "read up" on this phenomenon. Turns out this is a known issue to this board, and I hadn't done my homework on ProMag. I relegated these two (now) overpriced paperweights to emergency reload/malfunction drill magazines, and licked my wounds. After all, at least they were serving SOME purpose. ProMag fooled me once- shame on them.

Fast forward to Feb of this year. I installed my BG, and modded some of my Surefires to work. Then I was kind of relieved when I realized my ProMags were once again servicable in my rifle. Yeeha!

Well, my very limited joy lasted all of 5 minutes into my next range trip (no more public ranges for me though). After a brisk 30 through the ProMag, as I was loading, I noticed a crack in one of the feed lips. OK, I think- now is the legitimate time to try out the lifetime warranty on this.

I called ProMag, got a return authorization number, and sent my .223 mag back. The customer service experience was actually pretty streamlined, but in retrospect I'm sure they get a high volume of calls like mine. At any rate, I waited patiently for my replacement mag, hoping all the while that it would be a redesigned and improved "mod 2" I've heard mentioned. (do they REALLY exist? Is it possible to polish a turd?)

Well, I came home from work one day to find my husband opening a package from ProMag. He had a devilish grin on his face, and when the box was open, it got wider. In silence, he handed me a new in box, ProMag Saiga 30 round magazine... For a 7.62 x 39 rifle! My brother, who has a 7.62 Saiga, happened to be there too. Disgusted, I chucked it to him, saying "happy festivus" or some such. He already knew about ProMags. He sarcastically replied something like "Do I look like the garbage can to you?"

Well, ProMag... Fool me twice, shame on me.

I will NEVER, EVER buy a ProMag product again. I will vehemently denounce their products at every opportunity and venue, public or private. I can't stand ProMag.

Please fellow forum members- share with the community YOUR ProMag story. Perhaps with enough indignation and vocal "calling out", we can either drive ProMag and their inferior product (and apparent lack of attention to detail) out of the Saiga business... Or, less likely, improve their product.

Friends don't let friends buy ProMag.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

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#2 Jim Digriz

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:47 PM

I had a Hi Point 9mm carbine (since replaced with Saigas). Hi Point only makes 10 round mags for that carbine, and ProMag makes 15 round magazines for it. I read a lot of problems on the Hi Point forum about it, but some people said it worked for them, and I was hoping to be one of the lucky ones for whom it worked well. It didn't.

It amazes me to see so many people buying ProMags for their Saigas. Don't people get AKs for their extreme reliability? And then they sabotage it at the worst possible place by buying crap for mags - even when the type of mags that have been tested in battlefield conditions are generally available for cheaper or close to the same price.

#3 bohound

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:49 PM

Thanks Jim... For the story, as well as helping to (without knowing it) make me a SOLID Galil mag convert! Milspec or nothing as far as I'm concerned. (Got my last batch for $10.99 a pop!)
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#4 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:54 PM

Bought a couple of ProMags for my S308 recently. The price sure was right, at $25 a piece (before shipping), but I am not liking them very much. First of all, they feel very thin and plasticy (in a cheap toy way) compared to my SGMs. Both of them are very loose in the magwell. They are about as loose as they can be, while still functioning . It's not a good feeling to have them wobble from side to side like they do - makes the whole weapon feel tacky. I wouldn't feel comfortable using them as an VFG. One of them doesn't feed too well. I haven't looked into it further, but it seems like the spring is messed up, being too weak or whatnot. Wish that I had spent $40 and gotten another SGM instead.

#5 -Shooter-

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:54 PM

My only experience with ProMag is their S12 stick mags. Anytime they come up in a thread about someone asking for them, I point them to AGP or Surefire.

ProMag stick mags for the S12 is one of the, or the, worst S12 mags on the market. Period. I hear good things about their S12 drum mags, though, for whatever that's worth.

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#6 madmax4x4

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:05 PM

I hear good things about their S12 drum mags, though, for whatever that's worth.


I did to and picked up a 12 round drum. It is a POS and will not feed shells up to the magwell. Sent a few emails to pro mag got a phone call a few weeks later telling me to ship it to them. Now I have to spend more money to ship it to them :(

#7 DJ Big Dog

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:09 PM

No joke I cannot hate on them, I have two promags for my 223 Saiga that have 500 plus rounds through each one, no tab have a bullet guide. I just recently had one apart and my dumb ass stepped on the follower and it broke on the front, it still functions fine. Plus they are shipping me a free replacement. I know orlites and all the such like surefires fit better and have more rigidity or what not, but I have had no major issues...
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#8 -Shooter-

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:13 PM


I hear good things about their S12 drum mags, though, for whatever that's worth.


I did to and picked up a 12 round drum. It is a POS and will not feed shells up to the magwell. Sent a few emails to pro mag got a phone call a few weeks later telling me to ship it to them. Now I have to spend more money to ship it to them :(


Go figure :rolleyes: . I'm not surprised, really. But up until your post, all I had heard about their drum mags when they came out, was generally good things. Even still, I never planned on buying any. Especially when Mike's are priced the way they are right now.

I like how companies put out a shitball product and then make you pay to ship it back to them. :ded:

Do you take vitamins?
Is there Vitamin C in Newports?
No, but you can't get a snitch shanked for a dozen oranges no matter how hard you try.


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#9 bohound

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:34 PM

No joke I cannot hate on them, I have two promags for my 223 Saiga that have 500 plus rounds through each one, no tab have a bullet guide.


Key words: You have a BG, and the "tab" from them broke off.

These magazines are marketed as "Saiga" specific mags- no BG needed. I use my one remaining ProMag also, and it functions with my BG. I probably have close to 200 rds through it. It does wobble like crazy too- forgot to mention that they fit for crap also.

Count your blessings DJ...
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#10 DJ Big Dog

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:50 PM


No joke I cannot hate on them, I have two promags for my 223 Saiga that have 500 plus rounds through each one, no tab have a bullet guide.


Key words: You have a BG, and the "tab" from them broke off.

These magazines are marketed as "Saiga" specific mags- no BG needed. I use my one remaining ProMag also, and it functions with my BG. I probably have close to 200 rds through it. It does wobble like crazy too- forgot to mention that they fit for crap also.

Count your blessings DJ...

It's kool, thanks for not flaming me for having a different report. I took the tab off because of the bg, however orlites do not work worth a darn without mods...as a matter of fact no magazines work in this plattform without mods...so it could be just as bad messing up a mod on a magazine.
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#11 bohound

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:58 PM

Actually, Galil steel mags work fine for me with NO mods save the BG. Haven't tried Orlites yet. Tapco Galils work great, Weigars need me to grind down the "interdiction tab" on the magwell (have not done it yet). The point is not to flame others... Just share stories about how crappy a product ProMag puts out.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#12 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:00 PM

I have never had an issue with my ProMag products. In fact, the pm stick mags have a slightly wider channel for the shell rim, and a better spring. I have lost 2 10rnd AGP mags due to spring failure... do you think they warranty their stuff. :angry:

The ProMag hatred is overblown in my opinion. But I understand some people here have a dog in the race...
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#13 RABIDFOX50

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:07 PM

Well, I guess I need to chime in here. I had purchased two Promag S12 stick mags when I first got my Saiga 12. They sucked bad and I had to do all kinds of fitting and mods to get them working half the time. I since switched to AGP mags, Surefire mags and a MD20 and never looked back.

THAT SAID.....

Upon suggestion of an old friend, I reluctently picked up a Promag S12 DRUM. After following the fitting instructions, I got it to fit snug and took it out to the range. After 150+ slugs and 00 Buck through the drum, I had no failures whatsoever. NOT ONE! I could not believe it and thought maybe Promag farmed these out to another company to build. Whatever the case, I now have TWO Promag S12 "nutsack" drums and they both are 100% reliable. I can only speak for the drums and I know for sure the stick mags suck bad. I have never purchased nor used any other Promag product nor care to.
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#14 Heath_h49008

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:45 AM

I can't speak as to what ProMag was in the past.

Currently, promag produces the most reliable stick mag I have found. I have not tested the Russian, the MaxRounds, or the Taiwanese. I have had nothing but positive experiences with their drums... in sharp contrast to the Alliance Armaments POS.

Again, your mileage may vary, but for those looking to buy, ProMags are what I would recommend.
"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#15 -Shooter-

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:10 AM

The ProMag hatred is overblown in my opinion.


Not at all. You're just one of the lucky ones; The exception, not the rule.


IMHO, buying a ProMag stick mag for your S12 is like playing the lotto, at best.
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Do you take vitamins?
Is there Vitamin C in Newports?
No, but you can't get a snitch shanked for a dozen oranges no matter how hard you try.


"As for missing anything good, Chile has been posting some killer recipes if you have a vendetta against your asshole." - DaveM


#16 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:20 AM

My Promag S-12 10 rounder was collapsed due to soft plastic.
It took them 3 months & 10 phone calls to get my replacement that didn't work.
I did the boil method & got it working but needed to loosen the steel feedlips to prevent their force from re collapsing it.

I sold the mag as part of a tuned mag package deal with the instructions to ONLY use the ProMag as a range mag.
The issue is soft plastic that collapses & drags on the shell.
Also it had the weakest spring out of all mag manufacturers out there. And yes. I've owned every type of S-12 stick mag out there.
I fixed that Spring part by grasping the spring's ends & stretching it to add about 8" to the length & that gave it equal force as my Russian 8s.

I understand it's still working for the guy I sold it to.
But I understand your sentiments Bohound.
Oh boy do I.

My only experience with ProMag is their S12 stick mags. Anytime they come up in a thread about someone asking for them, I point them to AGP or Surefire.

ProMag stick mags for the S12 is one of the, or the, worst S12 mags on the market. Period. I hear good things about their S12 drum mags, though, for whatever that's worth.

From what I understand, Stan, the owner of ProMag will be making the S-12 sticks from a harder material from now on. The same material as they make the drums from.
I have been led to believe they got a shitty lot (1000 lb box) of polymer material & did a HUGE run of sticks with it before it became apparent that it was soft as shit.

For those that have S-12 sticks, I'd recommend holding on to them for if the harder ones ever eventually materialize.
I'm not holding my breath, but it at least SOUNDS somewhat promising.
I'd wait to see other's results first though.



I hear good things about their S12 drum mags, though, for whatever that's worth.


I did to and picked up a 12 round drum. It is a POS and will not feed shells up to the magwell. Sent a few emails to pro mag got a phone call a few weeks later telling me to ship it to them. Now I have to spend more money to ship it to them :(

CALL them & request their UPS account #. They don't tell you, but they'll pay for shipping if you CALL them & ask for it.


I have never had an issue with my ProMag products. In fact, the pm stick mags have a slightly wider channel for the shell rim, and a better spring. I have lost 2 10rnd AGP mags due to spring failure... do you think they warranty their stuff. :angry:

Yes.
As a matter of fact I do.

Did you e-mail or call Kevin?
The main run that had the bad springs has the April-09 run date marking on it.
I e-mailed Kevin & he sent me a new spring right away for free.
I bought another AGP around the same time as I bought the one that had the spring failure from a gun show, however, this time directly through AGP. It was from their August-09 run marking & the spring has been great. No rust.

A tuned AGP is currently the best US made S-12 stick mag IMHO.
That being said, my go-to mags are the Russian 8s & MD-20.

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#17 bohound

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:43 AM

Thanks for all the candid responses all... Yes, I am pissed about my personal experience with this company... Regardless, I realize that some people have had good experiences with ProMag. I think that side should be aired in this thread as well.

The point is: I don't want others to make the same mistake I did, and the purpose of this thread is to at least allow the average FNG to the Saiga world make an informed decision.

Thanks again,
Kristen
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#18 DJ Big Dog

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:36 PM

Actually, Galil steel mags work fine for me with NO mods save the BG. Haven't tried Orlites yet. Tapco Galils work great, Weigars need me to grind down the "interdiction tab" on the magwell (have not done it yet). The point is not to flame others... Just share stories about how crappy a product ProMag puts out.

I like the idea of steel galil mags, are they 223 to start with or were they 5.45? I really am sorry for asking such a stupid question but I want to try and buy some soon if they fit and are more reliable rigid yet economical.
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#19 Jim Digriz

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:40 PM

I like the idea of steel galil mags, are they 223 to start with or were they 5.45? I really am sorry for asking such a stupid question but I want to try and buy some soon if they fit and are more reliable rigid yet economical.


.223

I recommend buying a small number at first, so you won't be stuck with a bunch if they don't fit.

#20 bohound

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:44 PM


I like the idea of steel galil mags, are they 223 to start with or were they 5.45? I really am sorry for asking such a stupid question but I want to try and buy some soon if they fit and are more reliable rigid yet economical.


.223

I recommend buying a small number at first, so you won't be stuck with a bunch if they don't fit.



Bingo. My first foray into "alternate" Saiga mags was the Tapco Galil mag. At roughly $13 a pop, I figured I couldn't go wrong... Besides, if I couldn't get it to run right, there are plenty of .223 owners here that COULD use it. I'd "pay it forward", so to speak.

Fortunately, that was not the case... And the rest is history. I'm pretty much sold on the steel Galils, with the Tapco's being a close second. They are signifigantly more compact than the Surefire and ProMags, (while the steel mags are 35 round capacity, the Tapco's are 30 round)


You know what- a picture speaks better than words:

Attached File  GUN STUFF 003.jpg   761.2KB   69 downloads
From left: ProMag 30 rd, Saiga .223 r(cheap and poorly made Circle 10 ripoff, IMO), Steel Galil 35 rd (likely S.African, for their liscensed version of the Galil, the R4), Surefire 30rd, Saiga .223 specific (tightest fit, built like a tank, bulky), Tapco Galil 30 round (also stout, good fit, functions flawlessly with no other mods save BG).

There you have it.

Moral of the story: ProMags are shit.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#21 vbrtrmn

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:06 PM

Never used them, but there are so many mixed reviews mostly bad that I can't see spending my money on them, when there are alternatives available.

Google: promag sucks
About 122,000 results (0.36 seconds)

Even if 50% of the results are BS, that's still a ton.
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#22 bohound

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:36 PM

Never used them, but there are so many mixed reviews mostly bad that I can't see spending my money on them, when there are alternatives available.

Google: promag sucks
About 122,000 results (0.36 seconds)

Even if 50% of the results are BS, that's still a ton.



Nice... More to the point, Googled: promag is shit
About 150,000 results (0.96 seconds)

Guess the word is out. You'd think those folks would change their business practices.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

"IMO, preference for Kalashnikov pattern long guns is just basic common sense, except for specialized roles..." Post-Apocalyptic

DOMARI NOLO

#23 lito820

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:50 PM

mine is listed for sale a I type this...maybe someone with more patience and know how can get this POS to work...I will never, ever, ever, ever...purchase a pro-mag product, ever ever, ever again...

#24 DJ Big Dog

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:25 AM

Googled Saiga's Suck
About 2,440,000 results (0.37 seconds

Googled DJ Big Dog Rocks
About 404,000 results (0.18 seconds) :lolol: :super:

So by that result we should scrap all of them right...jk

I guess this is just one of those things, I had to convert and do work on the rifle so why would I think any mag would function without a mod...I got two promags from another member here who bought like 12 and he did some very good testing on them dropping them and such as well as seeing if trimming the bg is better. I got two that were trimmed off 100% and they function 100% Sorry to see so many people had a bad experience.
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#25 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:54 AM

Googled DJ Big Dog Rocks
About 404,000 results (0.18 seconds) :lolol: :super:

I googled DJ Big Dog Deepthroats
About 151,000 results (0.27 seconds) :haha:

:nothing:

I googled Paulyski Deepthroats.....
See;
http://www.google.co...bde53b2ade8e603 :D
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#26 bohound

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:05 AM

Googled Saiga's Suck
About 2,440,000 results (0.37 seconds


And when you do that, the second site listed is our forum, featuring a thread from last year by Fluid Power (which I posted in) about how ProMags suck so bad!

Ahh, circle of life.

Oh and Pauly... :lolol:
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

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#27 Jim Digriz

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:23 AM

I got two that were trimmed off 100% and they function 100%


It's one thing for them to function 100% at a range - although many ProMags do not even do this little - but do they function 100% in adverse conditions? For instance, take a look at BigSal's thread where he tested the US Palm mags.

#28 DJ Big Dog

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:19 AM


I got two that were trimmed off 100% and they function 100%


It's one thing for them to function 100% at a range - although many ProMags do not even do this little - but do they function 100% in adverse conditions? For instance, take a look at BigSal's thread where he tested the US Palm mags.

Well I live in Michigan and have had them from late spring, dropped on ground fired from sand now we got a foot of snow and all is well...

Pauly.. :lolol:

All I was saying was that google is not a great source for your point. Your personal experience with them sucked I got that so has some others here, but my experiences with them have been great...so if any of you have some pro-mags in 223 send them this way...I love free stuff...

ps.

Pauly I just watched the new A-team movie then your channell you shoulda went out for Hannibal(sp)
http://www.youtube.c...u/1/oXb_XEfdn7A

Edited by DJ Big Dog, 15 December 2010 - 10:24 AM.

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#29 Ruffian72

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:27 PM

Pro mag has been hit or miss. .308 have 2. 1 was great, 1 needed a little internal sanding. 12rd nut sacks (2) have functioned flawless after ten loads a piece. Luv Mike's 20, yet like not such a wide profile, not buying more mags until Mike or Chaos gets their sticks built. AGP have been good. In 308, no problem with csspec or FBMG. Surefire have always been a pain in the 25's and never rectified. :smoke:
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#30 K.T.

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:17 PM

I want some of this action.

One Promag 40rd drum for my 1911. Out of the box, it will fire 5 rounds-if you put more in, the bullets nose dive. I milled a gusset off, tightened the torsion spring one rotation, and trimmed 6" of compression spring out. It will cycle 25-30 if you palm the bottom of it to keep it tight against the gun.

Three Promag 15 rd sticks for my 1911. All will cycle 8-10 rds out of the box. I sanded the edges on the followers and stretched the spring on 2 of them. Cycles 12-13 now. I machined an aluminum follower for one and it cycles 14.

Promag = epic fail.
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