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How do I inspect a used converted S12


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I am looking at a Converted S12 that is for sale by it's second owner. He doesn't know who did the conversion work and hasn't shot it much. He did say it didn't work with birdshot. I have only seen pictures of the gun, so far. It has high quality parts, (or at least expensive ones) :dollar: I am not familiar with Saigas or AKs. What should I inspect on the gun? What should I beware of? Any advice would be appreciated.

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I am looking at a Converted S12 that is for sale by it's second owner. He doesn't know who did the conversion work and hasn't shot it much. He did say it didn't work with birdshot. I have only seen pictures of the gun, so far. It has high quality parts, (or at least expensive ones) :dollar: I am not familiar with Saigas or AKs. What should I inspect on the gun? What should I beware of? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

FIRST, unscrew the gas regulator on the gas block above the barrel (which is unscrewed while pushing down the factory retaining pin next to it). Wile looking inside the gas block with a flashlight, see how many very small holes you can see in the barrel itself angled toward the gas block and gas tube. There should be 3 if this is not what is referred to as a "vodka special" that may only have 1 or 2 gas ports. That is what is at fault for 80% of Failure To Eject (FTE) on birdshot/low brass target loads IMO. SECOND, Make sure that the bolt carrier efficiently locks to the rear with the BHO on the right side directly next to the trgger guard. THIRD, take off the receiver cover and take out the bolt carrier and inspect the barrel for blockages/burrs. FOURTH, when it is all put together, check the guide rod spring simply by charging it to the rear and letting it slam forward on it's own like these russian beasts are made for. Right off the bat, b4 purchasing, there shouldnt be too much else that you will need to check if it has already been converted and owned twice. Members, please correct me on anything if there should be more to inspect. Other than that, I HIGHLY reccomend you to get an S12 because of it's pure badassness :super: There is a LOT to learn on this forum so do so.

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^^^ WTF???? :osama::killer: I think some moderator's need to take place here...

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Is there an easy way to tell if the gun has the standard shepherds crook or an axis pin retaining plate? (You can tell I've been lurking here) It would be a lot easier if I had actually examined an S12 before going to buy one. :huh:

 

Whatever happens I know that you all will get me through it. :super:

Edited by cadjak
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There are more than gas issues that affect cycling.

 

seeing how the gun has been converted, it screams "AMATURE". If the gun was converted by a real gunsmith and not some garage owner with a hammer, it would be stamped with the manufacturer's name. yes, converting a saiga is considered manufacturing, not gunsmithing. with that said -

 

open the gun up and check the hammer profile. there are "saiga trigger groups made in USA" that arent correct out of the box. this is the 1 thing on cycling issues with converted guns done by closet jobs and will cause light loads to not cycle.

 

check the receiver for welds or plastic plugs.

 

check for bolts.

 

check the bolt hold open lever MULTIPLE times.

 

 

 

 

me personally? I wouldnt pay a DIME for a converted saiga that doesnt have a manufacturer's name stamped on it from where it was converted. shits worth crap to me at that point, and Im not into fixing someone else's shotty crapmanship or answering any questions about where it came from.

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open the gun up and check the hammer profile. there are "saiga trigger groups made in USA" that arent correct out of the box. this is the 1 thing on cycling issues with converted guns done by closet jobs and will cause light loads to not cycle.

 

check the receiver for welds or plastic plugs.

 

check for bolts.

 

I am a novice. I could use some help with the issues that you pointed out. I know what the hammer is and where it is located. What is the correct profile and what does it look like?

 

Is the receiver meant to be plugged or welded? I guess that you are saying that some folks used bolts to seal off the receiver holes???

 

Thanks, I'll be going to check it out tomorrow.

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Basically what BVAMP ( he would know) is saying is, unless you are prepared to invest some time and money in it potentially fixing problems don't bother...If you can shoot it first, examine it well, and take pics first and the price is right I say go for it, but don't pay more for something you could accomplish yourself....

 

A lot of ppl weld or use plugs, that is not as big a deal as the hammer and BHO...

 

Yes you should notice a retaining plate if it has one...

Edited by beefcakeb0
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There are more than gas issues that affect cycling.

 

seeing how the gun has been converted, it screams "AMATURE". If the gun was converted by a real gunsmith and not some garage owner with a hammer, it would be stamped with the manufacturer's name. yes, converting a saiga is considered manufacturing, not gunsmithing. with that said -

 

open the gun up and check the hammer profile. there are "saiga trigger groups made in USA" that arent correct out of the box. this is the 1 thing on cycling issues with converted guns done by closet jobs and will cause light loads to not cycle.

 

check the receiver for welds or plastic plugs.

 

check for bolts.

 

check the bolt hold open lever MULTIPLE times.

 

 

 

 

me personally? I wouldnt pay a DIME for a converted saiga that doesnt have a manufacturer's name stamped on it from where it was converted. shits worth crap to me at that point, and Im not into fixing someone else's shotty crapmanship or answering any questions about where it came from.

 

Did you have a bad experience buying a converted Saiga?

 

Personally, I believe my home converted Saiga is just as good as any commercially converted one. Yes, I have nylon plugs in the 4 receiver holes, not a big deal. Otherwise, all the internals of my gun aside from the Tromix modified G2 FCG are bone stock. The gun functions just as it did from the factory.

 

So, I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd never consider buying a Saiga someone else converted. You simply have to check how the conversion was done. There really isn't all that much to it, especially now with the DIY trigger guards.

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Considering I worked for RAAC's warranty repair center for two years, and have seen about every fuckup known to saigas go through the door, I think I MIGHT know what I am talking about.

 

Thanks for the negatives.

 

by the way, I cant stress enough at how many "conversions" done by customers and even vendors I have seen that were sent in because they werent cycling due to a fucked up trigger group job.

 

but I am a known expert on these fucking guns, what would I know, anyhow, right? why dont you call up my friend Clyde Woods over at RAAC and ask him if he thinks I know what I am talking about.....

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There are more than gas issues that affect cycling.

 

seeing how the gun has been converted, it screams "AMATURE". If the gun was converted by a real gunsmith and not some garage owner with a hammer, it would be stamped with the manufacturer's name. yes, converting a saiga is considered manufacturing, not gunsmithing. with that said -

 

open the gun up and check the hammer profile. there are "saiga trigger groups made in USA" that arent correct out of the box. this is the 1 thing on cycling issues with converted guns done by closet jobs and will cause light loads to not cycle.

 

check the receiver for welds or plastic plugs.

 

check for bolts.

 

check the bolt hold open lever MULTIPLE times.

 

 

 

 

me personally? I wouldnt pay a DIME for a converted saiga that doesnt have a manufacturer's name stamped on it from where it was converted. shits worth crap to me at that point, and Im not into fixing someone else's shotty crapmanship or answering any questions about where it came from.

 

Did you have a bad experience buying a converted Saiga?

 

Personally, I believe my home converted Saiga is just as good as any commercially converted one. Yes, I have nylon plugs in the 4 receiver holes, not a big deal. Otherwise, all the internals of my gun aside from the Tromix modified G2 FCG are bone stock. The gun functions just as it did from the factory.

 

So, I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd never consider buying a Saiga someone else converted. You simply have to check how the conversion was done. There really isn't all that much to it, especially now with the DIY trigger guards.

There's some things that those who know can do to increase reliability & make the guns cycle ANYTHING you feed it.

 

If yours is bone stock, yours isn't one of them.

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the other side of that Paul, is why pay more money to have to fix some fucked up job. plus, once you get in there, you can always run into the "what the fuck did this guy do to this thing".

 

plus you run into the "manufacturing" thing once you buy a converted gun from someone else that is not a manufacturer. but thats a whole other topic all together.

 

...in the end, all i can say is, dont buy some closet gunsmith's CRAP.

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the other side of that Paul, is why pay more money to have to fix some fucked up job. plus, once you get in there, you can always run into the "what the fuck did this guy do to this thing".

 

plus you run into the "manufacturing" thing once you buy a converted gun from someone else that is not a manufacturer. but thats a whole other topic all together.

 

...in the end, all i can say is, dont buy some closet gunsmith's CRAP.

Ehhh...

 

You got a point.

 

I forget at times that many people who lack a well equipped shop & an analytical mind but only posses a, Dremel, & maybe a gun stand try to pass themselves off as skilled craftsmen.

 

Shit.

Even worse.... If the guy paid $180 for Alliance's "reliability" service. :cryss:

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I gotta add something here. I have worked in several large factories over the years that build transmissions and deal with tolerances in the micron range up to Cat engines that start as a 20,000 pound casting. I have seen some of the latest and greatest machining processes and some fine tool and die guys. Im not. I just fix the machines. NOW having said that the Saiga and all AK platforms are STAMPED out guns. They are butt primative and while I dont have a nice shop at home these guns are NOT like building a space shuttle. Sure some get fd up and may not be pretty but there are a lot of guys who do conversions for themselves that turn out just fine. May not be pretty and have a zoot deluxe finish but they do what they are built to do.

Plus if you only do a limited number of them or just one its easy to make a mistake but mostly nothing that cant be fixed other than a bolt. Even those can be fixed by someone with a shop.

 

Converting these guns are not like hand fitting and building a 1911 or precision bolt gun.

 

For those who dont have the inclination to do it themselves or want to figure it out over time the professional builder is the way to go.

I think everyone of us who has done any kind of Saiga work ourselves has made errors and learned from them. Hell if I started building them to sell Im sure I would get much better and learn more about the finer points.

 

I dont see any reason to insult the guy who is able to do a conversion at home just because he isnt some worship worthy "gunsmith".

 

 

I really dont know why some of us are in a bad place mentally at the moment and feel the need to bash.

+1 :super:

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Im not insulting anyone. I was telling the guy what to watch out for, as it was not pointed out.

 

Again, do you have any IDEA how many guns came through on warranty that werent covered due to a fucked up trigger group job on a conversion someone bought from "some guy".

 

Yeh you can unfuck any AK, really, but if you gotta unfuck it, and you have the tools and skills to do so, why not just build one yourself?

 

again, my point just goes whizzing right on past.

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If that is done professionally, which it looks like it was at first glance, (the cycling issue has me scratching my head on this gun now), and it being CA compliant, I would put a value on it at 1400-1500

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From the pics, it looks hot-blued, that's good & shows the guy at least knows how to hot blue.

Also, those sights are attached by welding or silver solder/brazing which shows the guy who did it had some skills at least, also the receiver holes look to be welded, & that's a good sign too.

 

Maybe the guy who converted it simply didn't understand the Intricies of the S-12... Hopefully.

Or maybe the rail isn't installed correctly, or maybe he tested it with high brass... Incorrect hammer profile, ports etc....

The possibilities aren't endless, but they're hard to guess from a Pic without symptoms or a parts breakdown.

Edited by Paulyski
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I would recommend driving up to meet the guy and having a look at the weapon. Go over everything hes done to it. Have him take you shooting at his local range,bring some ammo, full power buckshot and slugs for function testing as well as to check poa, also some birdshot if you plan on running that. If everything is good to go Id say go for it.

 

After all we are all going to die in 2012 so enjoy life lol

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Well, it ain't going to happen. The seller backed out the night before we were supposed to meet for the sale. He said he discovered a flaw in the working of the gun and would not sell it until repaired. Probably most interesting was that he said it was another potential buyer that discovered this "flaw". I thought we he and I had made a deal. Probably best that it didn't happen. :chris:

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