Roan 19 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Nice looking rifle! I handled one the other day at a local store. It was a CAI. First thing I noticed is how lite it was. Hate the fact that they cant take AK mags. Great looking rifle though. Can you do me a huge favor? Let me know where the casings eject? I kind of like the Czech mags better, but that's just preference. I consider it a totally different platform. I don't get annoyed that the AR doesn't accept FAL mags, for example. As for the case ejection pattern, it doesn't really have one. It ejects shells in a rough 120* arc in front of you, out to about 10 ft at the extreme. If you are shooting under cover such as an awning, expect them to hit it and bounce down. The falling shells don't come down with much force, so don't worry about getting hit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Here are some initial impressions: -The rifle was packed in a styrofoam cutout. A lot of small piece of styro got loose and were all over the weapon, getting stuck to the preservative coating. I blew some of it away with compressed air and wiped the rest off with a rag. -There are styrofoam cutouts for two mags, but the rifle only came with one. Hmm... -The nylon sling is kind of cheap. -The receiver markings are from "D-Technik" (Czech manufacturer) and "Waffen Werks" (importer used by CZ-USA and Czechpoint). -The rifle feels like I remembered from handling one at a local gun shop: light, compact, comfy... "tight" all over. Definitely more comfortable to maneuver with than an AKM. -Outside fit and finish are great. The baked-on paint finish is just a bit glossy and looks almost gray when you hold it to the light. -The mag is big, but very light. Feels like aluminum alloy to me. Definitely doesn't feel as sturdy as AK mags. I get the feeling that if it was ever stepped on, something very bad would happen to it. -It was a tight fit into the mag well and instantly began losing some finish on points of contact. -The mag release lever is very small and very close to the trigger guard. Forget about pushing on it with your next mag. -There is a BHO button right next to the mag release lever. Pretty cool... -Mag well walls were covered with some brown shit, turning my rag brown pretty quickly. I think (hope) it's a preservative of some sort. -Bolt-face looked a bit dirty. Wiping it and the receiver innards (which are accessible without field-stripping) with my rag, soiled the rag with black stuff. Hmm... Was this weapon fired or what?!? -Began field-stripping the receiver and the dust cover, the springs, bolt carrier and the bolt all came out as one piece. I thought that it was supposed to be that way. Wiped off more black crap. Seriously, did I just pay for a new gun and get a used one? -Tried to put everything back together and it wasn't quite fitting in there. Looked up instructions on the web... the dust cover and the springs are actually supposed to separate from the bolt carrier. The bigger spring on mine was lodged in there and didn't want to budge. I kept applying increasing amount of force, until it finally popped out, making a breaking sound. The metal bit covering the tip of the spring looked rusted... Seems like it got fused with the bolt carrier via rusting. Kind of shitty... Oh well... the rifle was probably laying somewhere for 5 years. -Had a little bit of difficulty lining things up just right, in order to put them back together into the receiver, but I am sure that it will become a piece of cake on subsequent assemblies. -The design is rather elegant, but does have more parts than an AK. Seems like the action should be cleaner, with less gas and debris getting back into the receiver, due to the gas piston being separate from the bold carrier, isolated and contained in the space where the AK gas tube would go. -One of the features that Czechpoint touts over the Century models is that the safety is not reversed ("down is safe and up is fire" vs "down is fire and up is safe" on Century rifles). Honestly, maybe because I am not used to it or whatnot, but to me, the "reversed" safety seems like it would be quicker and more comfortable. Maybe I am just not educated on how to work it properly. I try to work it with my trigger finger. -BIGGEST COMPLAINT: The friggin' trigger is made out out plastic! Argh! What were they thinking?!? It feels like a water soaker trigger! Anyone know if one can buy a normal (steel) trigger for this thing? Well, that's all for the initial impressions. I plan on taking it out to the range this weekend. Will post a range report then. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I think the new importer of these is Tenesse Guns Whose DBA is Waffen Works. SPetzGRU is correct when he says stay away from the Century builds.... there is a reason they are $350.... Several reasons actually: -Crap receiver -18" non chrome lined crap barrel -Threaded with a brake that is inauthentic (although you can call waffen works and order the correct brake on your unit) -Assembled by Century The rifle above is a sweet example of awesomeness (Though still inferior to an AK). Congrats on the VZ58 Spetz!!! :super: Edited January 14, 2011 by bigsal 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) I think the new importer of these is Tenesse Guns Whose DBA is Waffen Works. SPetzGRU is correct when he says stay away from the Century builds.... there is a reason they are $350.... Several reasons actually: -Crap receiver -18" non chrome lined crap barrel -Threaded with a brake that is inauthentic (although you can call waffen works and order the correct brake on your unit) -Assembled by Century The rifle above is a sweet example of awesomeness (Though still inferior to an AK). Congrats on the VZ58 Spetz!!! :super: I hate how smug some owners are tho, especially the damn Russia-hating Czechs! "No dirty Russian had a hand in designing these beautiful examples of superior Czech engineering", "AKs are junk in comparison", blah blah. They usually compare them to WASRs and say how much more accurate they are. I will be really (REALLY) surprised if this vz shoots tighter groups than my SGL21, which kept surprising me with its accuracy, even when using the cheapest rounds. Actually, older "D-Technik" rifles marketed by CZ-USA and Czechpoint had the "Tennessee Guns" markings, while the more recent ones are "Waffen Werks". Edited January 15, 2011 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I love the VZ-58, impressively light weight and natual handling, stock design helps manage recoil. The mag release is not as easy to access as on the AK. Still a very nice rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 What I ment by "where it ejects brass" is because I'm interested in this rifle but I'm a lefty. Now AKs and most other semi autos dont bother me one bit but this has the whole top part move. Just curious if it they go up, forward, backwards,...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marrok857 51 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 What I ment by "where it ejects brass" is because I'm interested in this rifle but I'm a lefty. Now AKs and most other semi autos dont bother me one bit but this has the whole top part move. Just curious if it they go up, forward, backwards,...... If i remember right it ejects forward, like the VZ52. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roan 19 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 What I ment by "where it ejects brass" is because I'm interested in this rifle but I'm a lefty. Now AKs and most other semi autos dont bother me one bit but this has the whole top part move. Just curious if it they go up, forward, backwards,...... The VZ58 primarily ejects up and forward. You shouldn't have any problems getting hit by brass because you're a lefty. If you want to see the weapon fired in slow motion, check out CzechPoint's YouTube video. It's a well made video, though it starts a little slow. Right at the 3 minute mark, you can see the ejection of a spent shell in slow motion so you can see for yourself how it works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PqAk-qianA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Wow. Just wow. I am frigging spent, after just finishing cleaning this "new" rifle and getting it ready for a range session. It took over six hours, with most the time spent removing the rust from the bolt carrier, mag well and the rear sight block. The barrel, chamber and the area outside the chamber were full of paint debris and metal shavings. First of all, lets talk about the bolt carrier. The hole where the main spring goes in was rusted and pitted to hell. Check it out: Here's what the tip of the main spring looked like: Bottom of the bolt carrier, before and after removing the rust: Mag well, before and after removing the rust: Area around the chamber. Notice the metal shavings: First patch out of the barrel. Lots of black shit and metal shavings: By the way, there's frigging paint in the chamber. Looks like when they were painting the mag well (after widening it for double-stack mags), they didn't even bother to mask the chamber. Hell, they didn't even clean up the metal shavings and seemingly just spray-painted everything with with some Rustoleum or something, which didn't take and later, everything rusted. Once again, wow! With the bolt carrier, it seems like when the Czechs were "reconditioning" the part, they forgot to remove the rust and applied their lacquer paint over it. Any way, I am tired as hell here. Might go into more detail later. Edited January 16, 2011 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 That's some serious bullshit on a "new" gun. I told you before that I have a chest of parts. Well, seeing your pics and your write-up, it's clear that a few replacements are in order. PM me your address and I'll ship you a new recoil spring, recoil spring guide, and recoil spring retainer, free of charge. It's a pain in the ass to change the first time, but you need to get rid of that rusty shit. If I have any more dust covers left I'll send one of those too. These parts are actually brand new - guaranteed not to be covered in black shit or rust. I don't know a whole lot about the FCG differences between the original weapons and the semi-auto version, although I have some of the original parts. I have a complete trigger assembly, from the same armorer's chest the rest of my parts came out of. I do not know if there's a difference between the original select-fire rifle's trigger assembly and the semi-auto version. I'll be glad to send you the trigger assembly, but I don't know if it would create a constructive possession situation for you, or even if it will fit. If you want it, it's yours. I don't know if that was a factory test gun, a bizarre fluke, or if your dealer fucked you with a used gun, but I'm sorry that happened to you. Best wishes enjoying the gun to the fullest extent despite the rocky start. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Well, what's interesting is that discounting all this, the complete lack of scuffs and scratches on the finish, including the railings and other usual suspects, does make it look like a new gun! LOL The rust inside the mag well and on the spring assembly were both surface rust. The only part which has been heavily corroded and pitted is the bolt carrier. After I was done removing the surface rust in the mag well, there was no finish left. There were clear borders between the original Czech finish (baked-on lacquer) and whatever was used (generic grill paint, it would seem) by whoever "desportized" this rifle in the US, when they were done widening the mag well. Thank a lot for the words of support and offering to send me the parts, Shandlanos. I really appreciated it. I am still a little stunned and tired after pulling an all-nighter trying to clean this thing and running into what I did. I am considering my options. I was planning on taking this gun out to the range today, but don't know now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Blyat...PIZDETS!!!! That just sucks ass! Who imported/worked on these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Blyat...PIZDETS!!!! That just sucks ass! Who imported/worked on these? Da... zhopa polnaya. I don't want to prematurely start dissing people. I don't know for sure who/what is at fault at here and they could end up making this right for me yet. This is a CZ-USA marketed (imported?) rifle. They no longer market (import?) them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 A guy on Zombie Squad posted the following. Makes sense to me: "It sounds like you got a "shop special," a returned rifle that was worked on, test fired and then decided to replace it rather than ship it back to the buyer. It likely was ignored (obviously not cleaned) and then after they discontinued the Vz58 line these last few returned/reworked/reject rifles were boxed and sold on clearance, as is, to the shop that sold it to you. That's my guess as CZ-USA has a very good reputation otherwise." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Just checked up on the lubed and oiled gun and took a few more pics. This is what my mag well looks now: Paint on the chamber wall: Does this chamber even look chrome-lined to you guys?!? By the way, I did join the CZ forums and posted there about this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Update, guys... So here's the deal: My best buddy ordered himself one of these from the same site, at the same time as me. He is currently serving (Army) in Germany and the rifle is waiting for him at our friendly neighborhood FFL until he comes for leave in late March and picks it up. Well, after informing him of the situation, he was naturally concerned as to the state of his his own weapon. We both got in touch with the FFL and arranged for me to come in, field strip and closely inspect that weapon. So, I did just that today. The bad news is that his mag well is about as badly rusted as mine, maybe a bit less. The good news is that there is no sign of rust on the bolt carrier or inside the sight block, tho the bolt carrier is pitted (but painted over). The area around the chamber was also much cleaner, but there were still a few metal shavings to be found. The chamber and the bore were much cleaner than mine. The bolt face was just as dirty with carbon residue tho. Any way, here are the pics of the mag well on his weapon: Edited January 18, 2011 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 What I ment by "where it ejects brass" is because I'm interested in this rifle but I'm a lefty. Now AKs and most other semi autos dont bother me one bit but this has the whole top part move. Just curious if it they go up, forward, backwards,...... Sorry about misunderstanding your question. The ejection is pretty much up and forward. Left handed use should be no problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Here are some initial impressions: -The rifle was packed in a styrofoam cutout. A lot of small piece of styro got loose and were all over the weapon, getting stuck to the preservative coating. I blew some of it away with compressed air and wiped the rest off with a rag. -There are styrofoam cutouts for two mags, but the rifle only came with one. Hmm... -The nylon sling is kind of cheap. -The receiver markings are from "D-Technik" (Czech manufacturer) and "Waffen Werks" (importer used by CZ-USA and Czechpoint). -The rifle feels like I remembered from handling one at a local gun shop: light, compact, comfy... "tight" all over. Definitely more comfortable to maneuver with than an AKM. -Outside fit and finish are great. The baked-on paint finish is just a bit glossy and looks almost gray when you hold it to the light. -The mag is big, but very light. Feels like aluminum alloy to me. Definitely doesn't feel as sturdy as AK mags. I get the feeling that if it was ever stepped on, something very bad would happen to it. -It was a tight fit into the mag well and instantly began losing some finish on points of contact. -The mag release lever is very small and very close to the trigger guard. Forget about pushing on it with your next mag. -There is a BHO button right next to the mag release lever. Pretty cool... -Mag well walls were covered with some brown shit, turning my rag brown pretty quickly. I think (hope) it's a preservative of some sort. -Bolt-face looked a bit dirty. Wiping it and the receiver innards (which are accessible without field-stripping) with my rag, soiled the rag with black stuff. Hmm... Was this weapon fired or what?!? -Began field-stripping the receiver and the dust cover, the springs, bolt carrier and the bolt all came out as one piece. I thought that it was supposed to be that way. Wiped off more black crap. Seriously, did I just pay for a new gun and get a used one? -Tried to put everything back together and it wasn't quite fitting in there. Looked up instructions on the web... the dust cover and the springs are actually supposed to separate from the bolt carrier. The bigger spring on mine was lodged in there and didn't want to budge. I kept applying increasing amount of force, until it finally popped out, making a breaking sound. The metal bit covering the tip of the spring looked rusted... Seems like it got fused with the bolt carrier via rusting. Kind of shitty... Oh well... the rifle was probably laying somewhere for 5 years. -Had a little bit of difficulty lining things up just right, in order to put them back together into the receiver, but I am sure that it will become a piece of cake on subsequent assemblies. -The design is rather elegant, but does have more parts than an AK. Seems like the action should be cleaner, with less gas and debris getting back into the receiver, due to the gas piston being separate from the bold carrier, isolated and contained in the space where the AK gas tube would go. -One of the features that Czechpoint touts over the Century models is that the safety is not reversed ("down is safe and up is fire" vs "down is fire and up is safe" on Century rifles). Honestly, maybe because I am not used to it or whatnot, but to me, the "reversed" safety seems like it would be quicker and more comfortable. Maybe I am just not educated on how to work it properly. I try to work it with my trigger finger. -BIGGEST COMPLAINT: The friggin' trigger is made out out plastic! Argh! What were they thinking?!? It feels like a water soaker trigger! Anyone know if one can buy a normal (steel) trigger for this thing? Well, that's all for the initial impressions. I plan on taking it out to the range this weekend. Will post a range report then. The gun should not have been that dirty/rusted. That is the kind of thing you might expect from Century, but not CZ. At least you can easily get replacement parts at Czechpoint if needed, but it shouldn't be like that. The magazines are aluminum alloy. If there is anything wrong with the VZ-58s we can get here (aside from the rusty ones), it may well be the magazines. This is not because of what they are made of so much as the seemingly impossible task of getting truly factory new magazines, and having to put up with (probably) less than mil-spec parts (follower and floor plate) for 922r compliance. With the reconditioned mags, you will often find that the rear locking lug is somewhat blunted, which can make locking the magazine in less positive. The plastic trigger is also for 922r compliance. If it is made out of good polymer, it should not be a problem. After all, many firearms parts, including triggers, are plastic these days. I hope the rifle works out for you. VZ-58s really are nice guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 The magazines are aluminum alloy. If there is anything wrong with the VZ-58s we can get here (aside from the rusty ones), it may well be the magazines. This is not because of what they are made of so much as the seemingly impossible task of getting truly factory new magazines, and having to put up with (probably) less than mil-spec parts (follower and floor plate) for 922r compliance. With the reconditioned mags, you will often find that the rear locking lug is somewhat blunted, which can make locking the magazine in less positive. I have NIW military mags from the 70's. They're pretty. The plastic trigger is also for 922r compliance. If it is made out of good polymer, it should not be a problem. After all, many firearms parts, including triggers, are plastic these days. That rifle has no bayonet lug, threaded barrel or folding stock. In that configuration, 922r does not apply - every part of that rifle should be Czech. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I e-mailed the online retailer where these two rifles came from and they said that they don't stock fired guns, etc. They suggested that I contact CZ (Checkpoint) about fixing it for me, but if they don't, they (the store) will "take care of it" for me. I said that I am not sure if it's a warranty issue and that no one ever heard of new Czechpoint guns coming in this condition, but I will try contacting them. I will write Czechpoint a detailed e-mail today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 That rifle has no bayonet lug, threaded barrel or folding stock. In that configuration, 922r does not apply - every part of that rifle should be Czech. You forgot the fact that it comes with with 30 round mags. 922r doesn't affect Saigas either, until you insert a hi cap mag. So, Czechpoint vz58s do, in fact, have to be made compliant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XdamagedX 248 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 is anyone else as "weirded out" by the bolt rebounding like that as I am? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 You can always go with a Troy Industries BattleRail; Kinda a UltiMAK on roids Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadslinger 37 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 is anyone else as "weirded out" by the bolt rebounding like that as I am? I am with you... watching the bolt bounce on the receiver.... how long before something breaks or gets worn down? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 is anyone else as "weirded out" by the bolt rebounding like that as I am? I am with you... watching the bolt bounce on the receiver.... how long before something breaks or gets worn down? Hey! Don't question it! It's the superior, 800 year old Czech gun engineering! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) You can always go with a Troy Industries BattleRail; Kinda a UltiMAK on roids Does it hold zero as well as the Ultimake does tho? Edited January 22, 2011 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 For what they cost, had better; http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-vz-58-2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 For what they cost, had better; http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-vz-58-2 You can get that Neit Industies upper rail by itself for cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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