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Introducing the u308 20 round Magazine


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Usually when I get a new gun, I hand cycle them when I get home as a test. However, I've had a few AK's that would jam up while hand cycling. But when I get to the range the next day, they fired fine. Hand cycling is not the ultimate test. Shoot the gun. GARY N4KVE

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I would like to introduce you to the Uinta Industries u308 20 Round Magazine. Constructed of a proprietary polymer blend, the u308 20 Round Magazine offers a durable, high-capacity solution for anyone

Sorry about the confusion here. I updated some shipping costs on the small parts, the problem should be resolved for this type of an order.

Had range time today with 6 new out of wrapper mags. 1 of 6 did a fail to feed on 2nd and 7th round. Reloaded and it worked as others. Mine fit tighter than regular AK mags in other weapons. Used 2 ri

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Usually when I get a new gun, I hand cycle them when I get home as a test. However, I've had a few AK's that would jam up while hand cycling. But when I get to the range the next day, they fired fine. Hand cycling is not the ultimate test. Shoot the gun. GARY N4KVE

 

 

I'll try to it tomorrow, for the interest of others. But for myself, a magazine that will cycle with the recoil shock of firing, but not cycle by hand is not acceptable. All my Military AK, FAL and M14 mags all do both with never a hitch, and so does my OEM Saiga 308 mag. And so do all the others, come to think of it.

 

I always ask: what if I get a dud round in an emergency, and I cycle the action expecting to clear the dud, and chamber a new round - but what I get instead is a jam? You can easily get dead this way, too. No military would accept such a magazine, and nor will I.

 

I have bought a few Ruger OEM Mini-30 20-roung mags as soon as they came out, about a year ago I think it was. Ruger developed them is a joint projct with ProMag. And I don't know if that's got anything to do with it but they didn't work. They would nosedive on the last 5 rounds coming out of the mags. Regardless whether you hand cylced or live fired. So I sent them back for repair/replacement. The mags that came back would cycle with the recoil shock of live firing, but they would still nosedive on the last 5 rounds when hand cycling. So I sent them back again, this time for a refund . I told Ruger the mags were still not acceptable. I told them: I have to be able to clear a jam in hurry simply by pulling the bolt back and letting go - regardless of the number of rounds remaining in the mag. And they sent the refund.

 

Just by the way, I don't know if Ruger has fixed their Mini-30 mags yet. If I ever hear they have, I'll buy some more. It's really unusual for Ruger to come out with bad mags. I am tempted to say it was influence of ProMag in the joint development project. Ruger got to sell the 20-rounders and ProMag got to sell the 30-rounders. The irony of it all is: they say the ProMag 30-round version is OK. Go figure.

 

But back to my main point. For me a mag must cycle both by hand and when live firing - a fail on either requirement, gongs it. But as I said I'll try ro fire a couple of my Unita's tomorrow anyways, just for the record, and for the interests of those with laxer magazine procurement requirements! ;)

 

And also by the way: I found the cause of the Uintas jamming. Amd I wasn't going to, but since I have got this far I will go ahead and post a copy of (most of) the email I sent them explaining it.

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Here is most of the email I sent Uinta..

 

Hi Uinta guys..![Regarding: the jamming problem]

.. I stumbled on this solution..

 

I was investigating what seemed to be an entirely different issue - the so-called "third lug" on the bolt. I ran a cross this message-board piece where a guy speculated that the main purpose of the 3rd lug was to hold down the next round in the mag, rather than to strengthen lockup.http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=43027 So decided to test his theory.. I removed the dust cover and return spring, put some rounds in the mag, inserted the mag, and slowly pulled the bolt back.When the bolt was 1/2" from the rim of the round in the mag, I could see the round jump up a bit as the 3rd lug passed over the rim and off the end of the round, and the 3rd lug was no longer holding the round down. And I heard a click too. At this time the front 1/2" of bolt was over the last 1/2" of the round, holding it down, and the 3rd lug was directly behind the rim. So I thought: what would happen if reversed direction at this pont and pushed the bolt forward again? The "3rd lug" might connect with the rim and feed the round. So I tried it. And as I eased the bolt forward the "3rd lug" did indeed connect with the rim and start to feed the round out of the mag, while the rear 1/2" of round was still UNDER THE FIRST 1/2" OF BOLT. And the round went on feeding forward until it wedged in the position I had been getting in my tests! I looked and sure enough, the mag is locking up a fraction low. There is a bit more up-and-down play when the Uinta mag when snapped into the mag well, than is the case with a factory mag. And the mag hanging low allows the bottom of the bolt face to pass over the rim, and the the "3rd lug" hits the rim instead, and picks up the round and feeds it. I couldn't find anything to shim the gap between mag latch and gun catch, so I just juggled the gun so I had a firm continuous upward pressure on the mag as I cycled 9 rounds through each of the 3 mags, and there were no Failure-To-Feeds. Mags hanging low are a common cause of misfeeds anyways. It was not necessary to come to this diagnosis by the route I took. It's just how I stumbled on it so I documented it that way. However, the spin-off benefit of this retracing this route is: more of an understanding of the "3rd lug". With my my OEM mag as it came from the factory, the bottom of the plastic latch was slightly oversize and I had to relieve it down a bit. But with the OEM mags as they came from the factory the bottoms of the plastic latchs are all slightly undersize and I can't easily build them up a bit. The old carpenter's saying is: If you cut your piece of lumber an inch oversize you can always shorten it another inch; but it you cut your piece of lumber an inch undersize it it very hard to stick an extra inch back on. And the moral of this story is: better oversize than undersize mag latches. So I still plan to send the mags back. And for a refund - unless you can come up with mags with bigger latchs(changing the molds and doing a new run?), or something I haven't thought of. The R&D is free! 18.gif

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Sorry to hear that. Wasn't there a thread about some .308 guns where the 3rd lug wasn't properly finished at the factory? I wonder if this might be the problem. I know my gun worked fine on the FBMG mag I had, & they're made from the same molds. Hope you get it sorted out. GARY N4KVE

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Gnugung,

I have seen that type of jamming before on an AK that had several thousand rounds of wolf fired through it without cleaning. The gas port was almost totally clogged. the bold wouldn't quite make it back far enough to get completely behind a round but somehow would start to push it out of the mag then get jammed. So the third lug does sound like it would cause this if the mag wasn't seated high enough, or if the bolt wasn't going all the way back.

 

Who converted your saiga? Does it have a one piece trigger guard and mag catch, or the original mag catch with the original trigger guard reworked to hook into the back of it?

 

I just find it interesting that you had issue with the lock up of your factory mags (that's not normal) and now you have issues with these mags. Seems like something might be out of spec with your mag catch.

Edited by DTakas
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Sorry to hear that. Wasn't there a thread about some .308 guns where the 3rd lug wasn't properly finished at the factory? I wonder if this might be the problem. I know my gun worked fine on the FBMG mag I had, & they're made from the same molds. Hope you get it sorted out. GARY N4KVE

 

 

The unfinished 3rd lug caused gouging of the next round in the mag, during extraction. That's a different problem.

 

The problem here is the mag hangs low in the well and the bottom of the bolt overrides the next round. Once the bolt overrides the round you already have a problem, period. After the bolt has overridden the round sometimes the 3rd lug can pick up the round and partially feed it. Adding a slightly different flavor to the problem you already have. MAG LOW - BOLT OVERRIDES ROUND = PROBLEM.

The problem can be fixed by manually keeping upward pressure on the mag as you cycle the action.

The problem is the mag latch on the mag. In my gun it allows the mag to hang lower than the factory mag.

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Dtakas: I have seen that type of jamming before on an AK that had several thousand rounds of wolf fired through it without cleaning. The gas port was almost totally clogged. the bold wouldn't quite make it back far enough to get completely behind a round but somehow would start to push it out of the mag then get jammed. So the third lug does sound like it would cause this if the mag wasn't seated high enough, or if the bolt wasn't going all the way back.

 

gnugung:

A. Short cycling of the bolt could theoretically cause the 3rd lug to feed a round from the mag, with the mag seated HIGH in the mag well.

If the rearward movement of the bolt ends just before the bolt face ends clears the rim, and just after the 3rd lug clears the rim. During the following forward movement of the bolt there is no chance the bottom of the bolt face can pick up the rim, but there is a good chance the 3rd lug will.

 

B. Full-length cycling of the bolt causes the 3rd lug to feed a round from the mag, when the mag is seated LOW in the mag well.

During the rearward movement the bolt face and 3rd lug both clear the rim, but during the following forward movement of the bolt the bolt face overrides the rim, because the rim is too low, allowing the 3rd lug a chance to hit the rim.

 

When I put put upward pressure on the mag thatcorrects the problem. That proves the problem is B not A.

The problem occurs with all Unita mags and not a factory mag. That proves the problem is B not A.

 

Dtakas

I just find it interesting that you had issue with the lock up of your factory mags (that's not normal) and now you have issues with these mags.

 

gnugung: You misunderstand. The issue I have now is with the Uinta mags, not the factory mags. I have never had an issue with factory mags.

 

The fitting I did with the factory mags was just burrs on the outermost projection of the mag latch(that's normal), I never touched the final lockup point of catch on the latch - which defines the height of the mags in the magwell. The factory mags sit snug in the mag well vertically, there is no up-and-down movement whatsoever. The Uintas don't sit snug in the mag well vertically, there is noticable up-and-down movement.

 

Dtakas

Seems like something might be out of spec with your mag catch.

 

gnugung: There is no evidence to support the bad-gun rather than the bad-mag theory. The gun plus factory mags combo has never malfunctioned in hundeds of rounds. The gun plus Uinta mag combo malfunctions all the time. It's the mags not the gun.

 

There is plenty of evidence to support the theory the Uinta mags lock up low in the mag well.

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gnugung, I notice you didn't answer my questions about the conversion.

I'm guessing you converted it yourself, and you changed the original mag catch out.

 

No one else has this problem but you.

 

I also find it interesting you just joined the forum this month and have made 17 posts since then.

It would appear that all of your posts are in this thread all trashing this company.

 

I don't think your problems in any way reflect the quality of the mags or the company and just so you know that I'm putting my money where my mouth is I ordered 4 of them myself.

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DTakas: I notice you didn't answer my questions about the conversion.

 

gnugung: I pointed that out to you that all your questions about the gun are red herrings: "there is no evidence to support the bad-gun rather than the bad-mag theory. The gun plus factory mags combo has never malfunctioned in hundeds of rounds. The gun plus Uinta mag combo malfunctions all the time. It's the mags not the gun."

 

DTakas: I'm guessing you converted it yourself, and you changed the original mag catch out.

 

gnugung: You guessed wrong. But it remains an irrelevant red herring.

 

DTakas: All of your posts are in this thread all trashing this company.

 

gnugung: An ad-hominem response, to avoid my technical argument.

 

Dtakas: No one else has this problem but you.

 

gnugung: There have been 4 feedback reports so far and 3 of them report failure-to-feeds.

1(-). SpetsnazGRU Posted 07 February 2011 - 03:16 PM

"The bolt was hitting one of the sides of the mag and failing to grab the next round. I had to manually cycle the action, pushing the bolt down with a bit of force, in order to chamber a round and then pushing the bolt closed"

2(+). CMA g21: Posted 07 February 2011 - 03:59 PM

"All three magazines functioned perfectly."

3(-). MaxThe Rabbit: Posted 14 February 2011 - 04:52 PM:

"my Uinta mag doesn't work at all with South African. Bullet tips lodging against the chamber face below the opening..it's a single shot at the range"

4(1). gnugung Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:43 PM

"my 3 Uinta mags..all failed to hand cycle rounds..the bolt would start to feed the round then jump the rim, wedging the round with the bullet in the chamber and the case out"

 

 

DTakas: I don't think your problems in any way reflect the quality of the mags or the company and just so you know that I'm putting my money where my mouth is I ordered 4 of them myself.

 

gnugung: I don't care what you think or do, and I don't need to know. You don't need to report to me.

But since you have told me, here is my advice: Just make sure you file a feedback range report. If it's positive it will bump the negative-to-positive-report ratio from 3 to 1 up to 3 to 2.

 

And I not going to respond to you again until I see you post that report.

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gnugung: OK, good luck with that. It's not that people can't get a hold of you, it's that in order to take seriously a company's warranty on their product, most people expect the company to provide a street address and phone number.

 

THis is particularly true when the company appears to perhaps be a spin off (same people or just same equipment??) of a now seemingly defunct company (FBMG, although its still listed as an active LLC).

 

I would think that they are smart enough to have formed a LLC or a corporation and thus they would have a registered address on file with the state. However, I found only an expired 1985 corporation by the name of Uintah Industries in Utah. https://secure.utah.gov/bes/action/details?entity=664854-0142 I do not think they are the same. Perhaps Uintah Inudstries is registered under another name, or perhaps the people behind it are simply exposing themselves to full liability should they have issues.

 

I wish Uintah the best and hope their mags work well as having a source of good 308 mags is definitely a positive.

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I wish I could go out and do more testing, but it's been rather cold here and my range is located in a canyon that's like a friggin' wind tunnel. So, even when the temps are around 32, it feels more like 0 degrees out there and it's hard to stay out for very long.

 

I had another issue with one of my UINTA mags. I was hand-cycling the rounds through it has getting a "BHO" effect after the last round - the mag was holding the bolt back. I compared that mag to my other mags and noticed that the follower was sticking out a lot more.

 

I contacted UINTA here and he said that the issue is due to a follower that's too small and that it's been reported only once before. He was great to deal with and mailed me a new follower right away.

 

These guys obviously do fully stand behind their product, are honest and open, and even if you do have an issue, they will take care of you.

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Well I returned my mags to Uinta. USPS tracking shows it arrived yesterday, and this morning I got this email from PayPal:

"Uinta Industries just sent you a full refund of $101.60 USD for your purchase..The refund will go to your PayPal account."

That's pretty quick service.

 

RECAP: The mags would work fine when held up tighter into the mag well, so there wasn't much wrong with them. Uinta was willing to work on the problem, but I just didn't have the time.

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I'm hoping to run mine tomorrow. They're a bit loose but I may have a simple fix to take care of that if it causes a loading issue. Or even if it doesn't, because I don't care for loose mags.

Edited by timy
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Had range time today with 6 new out of wrapper mags. 1 of 6 did a fail to feed on 2nd and 7th round. Reloaded and it worked as others. Mine fit tighter than regular AK mags in other weapons. Used 2 rifles. Will still emory and silicone enternals, as done with all resin based mags. Will use these mags in a saiga mag converted Vepr. Top of front lip has to be filed an 1/8 inch to work correctly, yet still work in a Saiga. Easiest mag style to do this. Shot 1,000 rds today, 200 silver bear, 300 wolf, and 500 german surplus. Only issue was 2rds on mag mentioned before. Of 2 rifles used, fit was the same in both. Not any more wobble than a Fal or M1A. :smoke: P.S. 2 8rd factory mags that came with my weapons wobble at least twice as much as these did.

Edited by Ruffian72
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Had range time today with 6 new out of wrapper mags. 1 of 6 did a fail to feed on 2nd and 7th round. Reloaded and it worked as others. Mine fit tighter than regular AK mags in other weapons. Used 2 rifles. Will still emory and silicone enternals, as done with all resin based mags. Will use these mags in a saiga mag converted Vepr. Top of front lip has to be filed an 1/8 inch to work correctly, yet still work in a Saiga. Easiest mag style to do this. Shot 1,000 rds today, 200 silver bear, 300 wolf, and 500 german surplus. Only issue was 2rds on mag mentioned before. Of 2 rifles used, fit was the same in both. Not any more wobble than a Fal or M1A. :smoke: P.S. 2 8rd factory mags that came with my weapons wobble at least twice as much as these did.

 

Holy crab apple!! 1000 rounds makes me feel less than adequate! Anyway, I did 40 rounds through 2 mags and had no issues. I ran American Eagle (at 14.00 per 20) five rounds per loading to get the mags in and out several times. The magazines are loose, looser than I'd like, but it didn't affect function any this time around. Dunno what wobble is on a FAL or M1A but it sounds substantial. I plan on trying to tighten these things up a bit but they did work as is with my limited shooting.

 

I was mainly running my 223 (100 rounds of PMC) and it worked fine except I had a double fire on one occasion when I was doing a slow squeeze. Uh oh! Please help. I've only run a couple of hundred rounds through it since the conversion and this was the first glitch. Still, I'm not licensed for a selective fire weapon and I'd rather not go to prison.

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Had range time today with 6 new out of wrapper mags. 1 of 6 did a fail to feed on 2nd and 7th round. Reloaded and it worked as others. Mine fit tighter than regular AK mags in other weapons. Used 2 rifles. Will still emory and silicone enternals, as done with all resin based mags. Will use these mags in a saiga mag converted Vepr. Top of front lip has to be filed an 1/8 inch to work correctly, yet still work in a Saiga. Easiest mag style to do this. Shot 1,000 rds today, 200 silver bear, 300 wolf, and 500 german surplus. Only issue was 2rds on mag mentioned before. Of 2 rifles used, fit was the same in both. Not any more wobble than a Fal or M1A. :smoke: P.S. 2 8rd factory mags that came with my weapons wobble at least twice as much as these did.

 

Holy crab apple!! 1000 rounds makes me feel less than adequate! Anyway, I did 40 rounds through 2 mags and had no issues. I ran American Eagle (at 14.00 per 20) five rounds per loading to get the mags in and out several times. The magazines are loose, looser than I'd like, but it didn't affect function any this time around. Dunno what wobble is on a FAL or M1A but it sounds substantial. I plan on trying to tighten these things up a bit but they did work as is with my limited shooting.

 

I was mainly running my 223 (100 rounds of PMC) and it worked fine except I had a double fire on one occasion when I was doing a slow squeeze. Uh oh! Please help. I've only run a couple of hundred rounds through it since the conversion and this was the first glitch. Still, I'm not licensed for a selective fire weapon and I'd rather not go to prison.

Basically, little movement front to back, no noticable side to side. Original FBMG's fit also this way in weapons I have, Surefire and Promag were to dang tight and had to be fitted. csspec metal are tight except 1 original test mag. 1 is basic 06 except fire controls to 922 compliant, other is a Red Jacket conversion, 07 year. Like I said original mags are only so far that would be considered lose, wooble like normal AK tolerance. 45's and 10mm practice tomorrow. :smoke:

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question? what is the difference, if any between a standard saiga 308 and the u308? these mags work in both?

 

Actually, the U308 is the Uinta magazine for the Saiga 308. There is no U308 Saiga.

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Basically, little movement front to back, no noticable side to side. Original FBMG's fit also this way in weapons I have, Surefire and Promag were to dang tight and had to be fitted. csspec metal are tight except 1 original test mag. 1 is basic 06 except fire controls to 922 compliant, other is a Red Jacket conversion, 07 year. Like I said original mags are only so far that would be considered lose, wooble like normal AK tolerance. 45's and 10mm practice tomorrow. :smoke:

 

Glad yours are working out as you want. Mine rock a bit front to back and quite a bit side to side. I would prefer to file a little if it meant getting a snug lockup. My factory mag fits snug on my 09, btw. I'll use it when the rifle is on duty, at least till I can get a Csspec 15 rounder. I'm not ragging on Uinta either. So far they have functioned fine and if I get enough range time without problems, I'm good to go.

 

45s and 10s? Well, at least you're giving your shoulder a rest.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yea, my uinta mags require having the rear lug built up a bit because they don't sit high enough for the bolt to strip the left side round... (The bottom of the lug that contacts the magazine release.)

What would be the best thing to use? JB weld or something?

For future reference I hope uinta changes the design to a magazine that requires fitting.

 

UPDATE:

 

Got bored and went through the whole gun with a 3 stage full debur and mirror polish. Topped it off by putting a light film of moly on every moving part. It operates like precision machinery now lol. And guess what? The Uinta mags feed flawlessly now, and don't have a problem picking up rounds.

 

 

My theory: Burs on the bolt were causing shells to get oriented strangely in the magazine preventing them from popping back up where they're supposed to. A strong magazine spring would have solved this too. I think possible improvements would be to ship the magazine with a slightly stronger spring, and to make the rear locking tab slightly thicker on the bottom. May require fitting for some people's guns but it would prevent the possibility of a bur being an issue.

Edited by Tombs
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Gentlemen,

 

I'd like as many of you as possible to chime in for me on the rear lug discussion. I can only get my hands on so many S308s to measure. How much wobble is everyone seeing? I have about .020" on our Uinta rifle. The more input I get, the better I can make this product. Also, if we make the rear lugs a little too big, and you had to file them down by hand, would that be an issue for you? Let me know what you see in your particular weapon, we value user input.

 

THis is particularly true when the company appears to perhaps be a spin off (same people or just same equipment??) of a now seemingly defunct company (FBMG, although its still listed as an active LLC).

 

I would think that they are smart enough to have formed a LLC or a corporation and thus they would have a registered address on file with the state. However, I found only an expired 1985 corporation by the name of Uintah Industries in Utah. https://secure.utah....ity=664854-0142 I do not think they are the same. Perhaps Uintah Inudstries is registered under another name, or perhaps the people behind it are simply exposing themselves to full liability should they have issues.

 

Uinta Industries L.L.C. was formed in March of 2010. We purchased the mold from the now defunct FBMG soon after. Then we bought a ton of ammo and :killer: . When we felt we had a good product we released it, which was Jan of this year. Since we released the u308, I have been actively researching every new product suggestion I've heard and I'm trying to recreate issues so I can make a better product. Which means more :killer::smoke: . I'm not vocal on the forum (I think this is post three) but I am listening...

 

ETA - Thanks Tombs and everyone else for the info and the orders!

Edited by Uinta R&D
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Had range time today with 6 new out of wrapper mags. 1 of 6 did a fail to feed on 2nd and 7th round. Reloaded and it worked as others. Mine fit tighter than regular AK mags in other weapons. Used 2 rifles. Will still emory and silicone enternals, as done with all resin based mags. Will use these mags in a saiga mag converted Vepr. Top of front lip has to be filed an 1/8 inch to work correctly, yet still work in a Saiga. Easiest mag style to do this. Shot 1,000 rds today, 200 silver bear, 300 wolf, and 500 german surplus. Only issue was 2rds on mag mentioned before. Of 2 rifles used, fit was the same in both. Not any more wobble than a Fal or M1A. :smoke: P.S. 2 8rd factory mags that came with my weapons wobble at least twice as much as these did.

 

Holy crab apple!! 1000 rounds makes me feel less than adequate! Anyway, I did 40 rounds through 2 mags and had no issues. I ran American Eagle (at 14.00 per 20) five rounds per loading to get the mags in and out several times. The magazines are loose, looser than I'd like, but it didn't affect function any this time around. Dunno what wobble is on a FAL or M1A but it sounds substantial. I plan on trying to tighten these things up a bit but they did work as is with my limited shooting.

 

I was mainly running my 223 (100 rounds of PMC) and it worked fine except I had a double fire on one occasion when I was doing a slow squeeze. Uh oh! Please help. I've only run a couple of hundred rounds through it since the conversion and this was the first glitch. Still, I'm not licensed for a selective fire weapon and I'd rather not go to prison.

 

This link explains what is probably going on, as well as the kind of trigger pulls that will be more or less likely to produce doubles due to hammer follow.

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