What is your preferred capacity S-12 magazine?

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

Just getting a feel for the market. 8rd gets my vote, since a body can still shoot in relative comfort from prone.

Edited June 4, 2005 by junkyardblacksmith

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yeah but I already have one of those. If legality doesn't become an issue then I would like to see a 10. In reality though I think the Russians stopped at 8 for a reason.

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

After the inline steel mag project is completed, it's time to start looking at ultra hi cap, drum designs

 

Yeah but I already have one of those. If legality doesn't become an issue then I would like to see a 10. In reality though I think the Russians stopped at 8 for a reason.

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Edited June 4, 2005 by junkyardblacksmith

[amish_psycho 0]

No such thing as a "Drum". Only Non Linear Feed Devices = NLFD. If you research, you'll find that the Ruskies experimented with a 10rd sheet metal mag. The more the better. Amish out.

[GTwannabe 1]

7 or 8 rounds would be ideal... 10 rounds is just too long for a non pistol-gripped Saiga.

 

If you could design a double stack 10 rounder, that'd be pretty sweet.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I would much rather have a doublestack than any cumbersome ass drum.

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

I think the "street sweeper" and the "pancor jackhammer" had the only true drum magazines on the market.

 

No such thing as a "Drum".  Only Non Linear Feed Devices = NLFD.  If you research, you'll find that the Ruskies experimented with a 10rd sheet metal mag.  The more the better.  Amish out.

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[McUZI 1]

I don't care.

Just make the things, and i'll buy them.

 

5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, whatever.

 

There has been a lot of talk and excitement about people making S12 mags and it always fizzles.

 

I'd love to see someone actually bring a few of these to reality.

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

Roger that. Now if we can only get them to manufacture a gun that will take a double stack.

 

I would much rather have a doublestack than any cumbersome ass drum.

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[McUZI 1]

I have a Knoxx 12 gauge drum you can use if you are willing to fabricate a functioning Saiga feed tower for it.

 

You get a drum for R&D purposes without spending any $$$, and I get a S12 drum in the end.

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

I feel your pain. This is a project I have had in mind for a long time though. We should be able to get at least somthing out of it.

 

I don't care.

Just make the things, and i'll buy them.

 

5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, whatever.

 

There has been a lot of talk and excitement about people making S12 mags and it always fizzles.

 

I'd love to see someone actually bring a few of these to reality.

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[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Roger that. Now if we can only get them to manufacture a gun that will take a double stack.

 

I would much rather have a doublestack than any cumbersome ass drum.

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If an NLFD can be made to work then so can a doublestack.

[froggiefun45 0]

i vote 10 here... but would love the idea of double stack!!!

[6500rpm 670]

Anything over 8 seems a little cumbersome and long, then there's the DD bullshit as if 8 slugs wont do the job. That brings a question to mind, a lot of folks are wanting (or have) 10 round fabricated mags for use in three gun. How do you get past the DD term for use in competion. If higher cap is acceptable (or you just don't give a shit about ATF), I think if someone comes up with a functional double stack it would be the way to go. Even for an 8 it would drop the length and make the gun handle better in my mind. How quick can you reload or change out a drum (you'd need a back pack to lug extra drums around )

[300RUM 0]

Everyone wants a high cap mag, you have that in the Knoxx NLFD. They went through the trouble, it works, all that needs designed is a bolt on feed tower to mate it to a Saiga.

A one piece steel bolt on feedtower is the way to go.

 

 

PS

 

If you watch Knoxx's own demo's, they are changing their drum as quick as a straight mag. And the Knoxx NLFD only hangs down about the lenght of a S12 5 ounder.

Edited June 4, 2005 by 300RUM

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

BAA HUMDRUM!

It's still only one more round than the factory "8" holds. Is it really worth the trouble? You can strap two 9 rounders together and go cut yourself some firewood! Not to mention the dreaded DD bullshit. Not that I really buy into all that 100% but you fuck with the ATF and they just might fuck with all of us.

[Jeric 0]

but the Knoxx just looks so f'n cool...

The thing is, the aftermarket feed tower would have to be inexpensive enough to warrant purchasing it above and beyond the $80-100 you pay for the Knoxx nlfd.

 

For linear mags, I say no less than 8, no more than 10. I think I remember hearing that the Russians had difficulty with the 10, something to do with round deformation and feed reliability. I could be wrong...

 

Jeric

[G O B 3,516]

10's would be cool, but I think the guys are right about 8 being the practical limit.

Double stack's would shorten the thing , but I don't think it will work with the rimmed shell.

 

G O B

[SaigaShooter 0]

My Enfield fires the .303 cartridge, they are rimmed, but are stripped from a doublestack mag. If it can be done with rifle rounds, why not shotshells?

What would be really cool is a beltfed system

[Wakal 10]

Ten round magazines, since mag-fed shotguns are automatically "Open" in USPSA and 10 rounds is the max (plus one in the chamber ).

 

Drums work fine...my USAS-12 drums are perfectly reliable

 

Since Knox is willfully ignorant of the law, I will not give them any of my money. Fuck 'em.

 

 

 

 

 

Alex

[CGuns 3]

Cobra hit the nail on the head.

 

The Russians are clever engineers (Extremely Clever). If it was intended to be used with 10 round magazines, they would have offered them.

In a double stack format, 8 rounds is the ideal capacity for the geometries involved and the weapons platform itself.

 

Two Options:

 

A. A QUAD STACK magazine was developed one time for the AK. I am looking for pictures. It was a TAPERED design, which looked like a conventional double stack at the top, but tapered and got wider at the bottom, forming 4 columns.

 

The Spectre 9mm SMG from SITES Italy used quad stack magazines. I don't know about capacity, but this should be looked into. I imagine 10-12 rounds would fit no problem, with less length overall than the 8 round magazine.

 

 

A drum would be nice. I do not know of anyone that has a USAS-12 drum magazine working on their Saiga. The Daewoo USAS-12 magazine was originally intended to hold 25 cartridges, but this later increased to 28 I believe.

There is another shotgun that was drum fed...AA-12 I believe, or something like that.

 

CGuns

[CGuns 3]

 

[CGuns 3]

I will buy whatever you guys come up with, so long as it keeps in the spirit of the gun and does not significantly hinder the balance of the weapon and the "overall ergonomics" of it.

Let's keep it useable and not Hollywood.

[scoutjoe 276]

Cobra hit the nail on the head.

 

 

There is another shotgun that was drum fed...AA-12 I believe, or something like that.

 

CGuns

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ya the AA-12 is the one you are thinking of i have the magazine article on it around here someplace...

[junkyardblacksmith 0]

The mag of the spectre is 50rds if I remember correctly. The length was no more than that of a hi-cap glock mag, just twice as wide. I have dreamed of owning a full size, quad stacked .17HMR or .22LR handgun for years now. To me, this would be the ultimate "for fun" pistol. You could probably get 100+ catridges in a gun like this.

 

Anyway, I gotta hit the hay. Got a long day of drinking beer and bending sheet metal.

 

I've already got a pretty decent design for a 8+rd strait mag on paper. My idea is to design the prototype in a manner which is easy for you non machinists to build yourself. Then i'll move forward with modifying the design, like adding a curve, and detailed ridging.

 

If someone owns an AR-15, do me a favor and compare an AR-15 magazine spring to that of your S-12 mag springs. I need to know if the width of the coils is similiar.

[300RUM 0]

Why reinvent the wheel?

The Knoxx is compact, holds ten rounds, constant force spring, no case deformation, readily available, and best of all -- it works.

Just make a bolt on feed tower for it.

Edited June 5, 2005 by 300RUM

[GTwannabe 1]

Why reinvent the wheel?

The Knoxx is compact, holds ten rounds, constant force spring, no case deformation, readily available, and best of all -- it works.

Just make a bolt on feed tower for it.

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Drums are heavy, bulky, and slow to change. Unless it's a 20+ round drum, regular mags are a better idea.

 

Another idea... design a method of attaching 2 of the new mags together to double the capacity. Either mag clamps or an alternative to the upside-down duct-tape approach.

[300RUM 0]

Why reinvent the wheel?

The Knoxx is compact, holds ten rounds, constant force spring, no case deformation, readily available, and best of all -- it works.

Just make a bolt on feed tower for it.

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Drums are heavy, bulky, and slow to change. Unless it's a 20+ round drum, regular mags are a better idea.

 

Another idea... design a method of attaching 2 of the new mags together to double the capacity. Either mag clamps or an alternative to the upside-down duct-tape approach.

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Do you even own a Knoxx NLFD?

Its more compact than an 8 round S12 mag. I have an 8 round S12 mag and I think it hangs too low already, imagine a 10 round stick mag. I have yet to see any one come up w/ viable homemade mag yet. Now we're talking double stack!? I'm not holding my breath for it.

The Knoxx is here already, just make a feed tower for it.

As for quick mag changes, a Knoxx is'nt gonna be any slower to change than a S12 stick mag.

[MLM59 0]

I would like 10 rd mags, but 8s would be sort of ok. Let all those other guys argue about what "somebody" should do. If I could get a couple of 10s, I'd be a happy little shotgunner. If someone would make them, I'm sure they could sell whatever they made. 10s, 8s, drums, whatever. MLM

[kmoore 3]

Cobra hit the nail on the head.

 

The Russians are clever engineers (Extremely Clever). If it was intended to be used with 10 round magazines, they would have offered them.

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Russians designed to their needs. I don't feel constrained by them.

 

Can it be made reliable (enough)? Go look at WAKAL's 2x5rnders => 1 10 rnder work.

 

I like the idea of 10 rounders myself, and mine is from a competition standpoint. Not a hunter, Not a soldier, not even HD (I'd likely stick with any factory mag for that).