Auto Gas Plug

[docwade 3]

I'm very interested in the agp. Think I'll buy one today. I like MD arms adjustable plug and have two. We'll see how it goes.

[spenceman 5]

I have an Auto-plug, and just as advertised I no longer need to adjust the gas plug. That said (again as advertised) its not the magic cure-all, if your gun doesn't cycle a particular round well, it will still not cycle that round well. Make sure your gun is tuned and cycling properly prior to installing the Auto-plug, otherwise it is much more difficult to know what you need to adjust to get it working right. Also, lets take a quick look at the design and what the Auto-plug is. It's a bleed valve, when the pressure inside the gas block gets too high the spring is compressed the valve opens and excess pressure bleeds out. I like mine it's clutch, but don't go assuming it's the magic cycling cure all, it just provides some convenience and peace of mind in case you accidentally grabbed a mag with 00 buck instead of the cheap stuff.

[tcloutier 0]

Well I just got back from shooting in the woods. I guess it's

back to the drawing board, even with the polishing job and the auto plug all the way in I was getting FTE 3 out of 5 rounds of Fed low base value pack. I guess that I will open my ports next. I hoped that I got one that didn't need it. Lol

[tktm 13]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

[YOT 3,743]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

[tktm 13]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

[YOT 3,743]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

I did not know they made different sized pucks. Got a link?

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

I did not know they made different sized pucks. Got a link?

 

They don't but if the gas plug is made by Tac 47, chances are, the gun will cycle better with the stock puck or ANY OTHER PUCK ON THE MARKET!!!

[YOT 3,743]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

I did not know they made different sized pucks. Got a link?

 

They don't but if the gas plug is made by Tac 47, chances are, the gun will cycle better with the stock puck or ANY OTHER PUCK ON THE MARKET!!!

That would have to be proven, and I don't believe it has been.

 

I just really wanted to know about the "tighter thicker piston/puck".

 

The puck is usually the first thing to get [powder] fouled while shooting which is why some people think they aren't any good. Actually it is the unburnt powder in the escaping gas that is causing the problem not the puck. The gogun/tac 47 puc is designed to have ppl believe that it's doing something to prevent that, but it gets fouled as well as the stock puck or any other one, for that matter. If you don't believe it shoot each one to the point of failure, keeping track of how many rounds of the same ammo. That is proof. I have.

[raleighsaiga 81]

Has anyone chronographed the impact the Auto Plug has on velocities? With the non-auto plugs, gas not needed to cycle the action is kept in the barrel, propelling the shot. With the auto plug, gas not needed to cycle the action is bled off through a valve.

 

Though I think the auto plug would be great for competition and fun, where you care more about quick switches between different loads, I wonder how much you lose from your HD rounds versus using a non-auto plug.

 

Thoughts?

[NewSaigaFan 1]

As far as a difference in chrono speeds, negligible would be an overstatement. If the amount of gas between a bolt gun and an auto is ~150fps, the difference between an autoplug and solid plug would probably not even be measurable.

 

 

In response to the "thicker" puck. The AK is designed to function is -40 to 140 temps. It's designed in a such a way that reliability is the utmost importance. The ribs on the side of the puck are actually designed to "grab" gas that is flowing past them, the twister puck uses this theory to twist and free up gunk that might otherwise stick. Those ribs can be changed to help this process. What you are asking about is relying less on those ribs to grab gas and instead use the main puck face more. It is not a matter of gas MAY be leaking past the piston, gas is SUPPOSED to leak past the piston. This is possible, and would probably improve cycling, but at the cost of reliability over a temp range and a sticker cleaning cycle. The larger the puck, the less room for shit, the less room for shit, the more resistrance/friction the puck will face. Same idea for thermal expansion over a temp range.

 

Personally I feel that without the right gas setting range (which I have discovered some people here scream OVERGASSED!!!!! at) that changing the puck size or just hoping a different plug will assist is going to bandaid a larger issue. I would rather have an "overgassed" or 4 ports @ 3/32 for a 16-18" gun than spend any amount of time looking at welding bleed holes, changing pucks, switching between different plugs etc in the vein of fixes or even creating more issues.

 

That said, I have a TAC47 plug and have not used it yet, but it's VERY well made for the price! I like the idea and execution. The video pretty much speaks for itself, looks like proper ejection distance on most rounds. I feel that I'll be using low brass cheapo fun rounds and maybe 2 3/4 slug and buck. So I'm not worried about 3" magnum loads really. If I wanted absolute range in ammo, from non-lethal to 3" Magnum Hand Loads I think I would get the V-Plug instead.

Edited February 21, 2011 by NewSaigaFan

[tcloutier 0]

The s12 that is in question here is a 3 port @ .071 it was able to shoot low base loads with about 98 percent good. Now it has some problems. The next logical step is to open the ports to .093 or 3/32 and let her rip. I don't want to think about way settin the plug is in so I went with the TAC/47 to serve my needs.

[BobAsh 582]

Wow, I haven't been around in a while. There's some crazy bad advise/opinion circulating on this thread...

[epbullen 21]

I own and run an Auto-plug on my current S-12 (3 ports @ .093). The only reason I don't have 100 of them is because I spend more money on handgun and rifle ammo. I have an LSA S-12 on order, and probably won't use an Auto-plug on that one. Why? Because again, I spend a lot more time with handguns and rifles than I do with scatterguns. That's not to say the S-12 isn't the baddest firearm I own, because it definitely is.

 

 

Anyway...

 

 

I lost count as to how many rounds I've put through mine. It runs everything except rubber buckshot (duh).

 

 

It works!

[TexanShooter 8]

How well would the auto plug work with a 3 port gun that has 2 of those ports partially blocked? I know my gun is undergassed and this plug won't solve that problem but would it let it run a little better than if it had the factory plug?

 

Currently it seems to only eject 1 shell out of 5 in the factory 5 round mag. The type of ammo was winchester universal, would of bought some different type of ammo but my local walmart only had that type of ammo. To fix my port problem I'm going to open the gas blocks port sometime in summer or earlier hopefully depending on how it runs with different ammo.

 

 

[BobAsh 582]

Tex, the autoplug isn't my product but I can tell you that no plug will give you more gas than the factory plug. It may even be slightly less efficient than the factory plug.

 

For general principles, let me make some statements germane to this issue just so we can all stay on the same page.

 

1) Every Saiga is gassed a little different from the factory. There are lots of variables that affect this but the main ones are gas port area and barrel diameter.

 

2) The drums require a SLIGHTLY higher amount of gas than stick mags to operate.

 

3) No aftermarket gas plug will give you more gas than the factory one.

[TexanShooter 8]

Tex, the autoplug isn't my product but I can tell you that no plug will give you more gas than the factory plug. It may even be slightly less efficient than the factory plug.

 

For general principles, let me make some statements germane to this issue just so we can all stay on the same page.

 

1) Every Saiga is gassed a little different from the factory. There are lots of variables that affect this but the main ones are gas port area and barrel diameter.

 

2) The drums require a SLIGHTLY higher amount of gas than stick mags to operate.

 

3) No aftermarket gas plug will give you more gas than the factory one.

Alright thanks for the info bob.

 

 

 

[waltham_41 52]

And get some better ammo than the Winchester to base your shotty's performance on, too many people have reported trouble shooting it.

[weld387 4]

I ordered one 2/18/11. My Saiga 12 is a 24" model brand new. I only fired it with 00 buck and slugs. About twenty shots thru it. No FTE's. I more then likely will not be shooting low brass cheap stuff unless I have no other choice. This Saiga 12 is mainly going to be used for Coyote hunting close range work. My concern is with bashing the back of my reciever to death. Then there's also the option of being able to shoot the cheap stuff if I want too one day. I load my own. Have done that for years. My 1 oz lee slugs fly true and were doing a two inch group at twenty five yard mark with the smooth bore Saiga 12. Not into over gassing the shoty. That's my motive for having the Tac 47 auto plug. Soon I will be sending my bolt off to Pauly to get the sweet shine job done. Doing a Chaos fore grip too when my tax return comes in. Already moved my trigger group forward with the Tromix DIY trigger set. I do have a MD 20 mag that came with my trade. Have not used it yet? Looks like a boat load of fun on the youtube videos I have seen.

[tktm 13]

Tex, the autoplug isn't my product but I can tell you that no plug will give you more gas than the factory plug. It may even be slightly less efficient than the factory plug.

 

For general principles, let me make some statements germane to this issue just so we can all stay on the same page.

 

1) Every Saiga is gassed a little different from the factory. There are lots of variables that affect this but the main ones are gas port area and barrel diameter.

 

2) The drums require a SLIGHTLY higher amount of gas than stick mags to operate.

 

3) No aftermarket gas plug will give you more gas than the factory one.

 

 

Its crossed my mind more than once to install a wireless pressure sensor into the factory plug, just to get an idea what the pressure curves look like in the gun. If I was a professional S12 builder/converter I think I would build one just so that I could put some repeatability into each one of my conversions.

[BobAsh 582]

Its crossed my mind more than once to install a wireless pressure sensor into the factory plug, just to get an idea what the pressure curves look like in the gun. If I was a professional S12 builder/converter I think I would build one just so that I could put some repeatability into each one of my conversions.

 

 

The rise time is so fast that you would have a tough time measuring it. That's the same problem with designing an auto plug; the pressure pulse is so intense and fast that it's not easy to control.

[tktm 13]

Its crossed my mind more than once to install a wireless pressure sensor into the factory plug, just to get an idea what the pressure curves look like in the gun. If I was a professional S12 builder/converter I think I would build one just so that I could put some repeatability into each one of my conversions.

 

 

The rise time is so fast that you would have a tough time measuring it. That's the same problem with designing an auto plug; the pressure pulse is so intense and fast that it's not easy to control.

 

Yeah, it certainly would not be cheap to do it right. Although experimenting with something cheap and analog might have some value.

[BobAsh 582]

Not in my experience.

[tktm 13]

Not in my experience.

 

what kind of data did you get and what was your set up, if I may ask?

[gunfun 3,931]

Well for one thing HD scenarios most 00 Buck over penetrates for safe defense in town.

 

I doubt it would be much as the data Tom Cole did on running shotguns with hardly any barrel showed that velocity isn't changed much with modern powders even after venting all the gas 10" earlier.

 

Shedding a couple of FPS would be an improvement if it still cycles. See the Box o truth for more info.

[clifton 354]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

I did not know they made different sized pucks. Got a link?

 

They don't but if the gas plug is made by Tac 47, chances are, the gun will cycle better with the stock puck or ANY OTHER PUCK ON THE MARKET!!!

 

 

Do tell, kinda missed your point or gripe, we dont make a puck, I know you said plug, but everyone is refering to a puck that you multi quoted, do you have us confused with ETAC, and if not what experience do you have with our product do you have, that has let you to this conclusion.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

I would try a new tighter thicker piston / puck first.

Wut?

 

Gas may be leaking past the puck/piston

I did not know they made different sized pucks. Got a link?

 

They don't but if the gas plug is made by Tac 47, chances are, the gun will cycle better with the stock puck or ANY OTHER PUCK ON THE MARKET!!!

 

 

Do tell, kinda missed your point or gripe, we dont make a puck, I know you said plug, but everyone is refering to a puck that you multi quoted, do you have us confused with ETAC, and if not what experience do you have with our product do you have, that has let you to this conclusion.

 

Yep, you're right, at this time I'd like to give you my sincere apologies, while I was a bit confused, NO ONE should EVER be confused with ETAC. Sorry man, I brain-farted.

 

I retract my previous statement, I'm sorry Tac-47, I didn't mean to confuse you with ETAC.

[Mike1234567 26]

Meh... I kufyooz zhit all da' time. But at leest i gotz an exkyoose... me gotz brane dammij.

 

EDIT (above): Sollee... mist da' smilee da' foyst time.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Mike1234567

[BobAsh 582]

Well for one thing HD scenarios most 00 Buck over penetrates for safe defense in town.

 

I doubt it would be much as the data Tom Cole did on running shotguns with hardly any barrel showed that velocity isn't changed much with modern powders even after venting all the gas 10" earlier.

 

Shedding a couple of FPS would be an improvement if it still cycles. See the Box o truth for more info.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Also what Tom Cole data are you talking about? Link?

[gunfun 3,931]

Well for one thing HD scenarios most 00 Buck over penetrates for safe defense in town.

 

I doubt it would be much as the data Tom Cole did on running shotguns with hardly any barrel showed that velocity isn't changed much with modern powders even after venting all the gas 10" earlier.

 

Shedding a couple of FPS would be an improvement if it still cycles. See the Box o truth for more info.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Also what Tom Cole data are you talking about? Link?

 

 

Oops, I meant Tony Rumore, I think. I was trying to find a link, but failed. The primary point of the data was to show how much shortening the barrel affected patterning, and the upshot was 'not a whole lot', especially with Flight Control. By my recollection, the data was chrono'ed for each barrel length as well.

 

I am sure you remember them and can correctly point credit and people searching to the right place. I genuinely don't want to spread bad information, so please correct anything I have wrong. Thanks for the catch.