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PMAGs wont drop free


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I have a saiga 223 and have it adapted to take the MSA ar-15 magazine adapter.

 

I just purchased a couple Magpul Pmags to use with the adapter because the MSA instructions say that the adapter is designed around the Pmag (not to mention the Pmag has one of the best reputations of all the ar-15 magazines).

 

The adapter will take the Pmag and the rifle feeds, fires and extracts the rounds fine. But once you press the release button the magazine will remain in the rifle.

 

I am wondering what everyone else who has this adapter has done in order to remedy a similar situation. I would rather not just start grinding on the adapter to get them to fall free. But I do want a permanent fix opposed to modifying each magazine.

 

Thanks guys

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But you don't really need a drop free mag.

 

That's not really up to you.

 

OP, P-mags are going to have a tighter fit in an AR and even moreso in the magwell conversion. While not a fan of the magwell conversion for AKs, you are going to experience this with most polymer magazines. When dropping the mag, even on an AR, it's pretty SOP to flick the rifle to the side to force the magazine out with force anyways.

 

Good luck.

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I cannot get them to drop free even with a fully loaded magazine and a stupid hard flick of the rifle. I don't plan on getting into any battles anytime soon but, I would enjoy them dropping free for speed shooting fun.

 

All in all if you are converting your rifle to shoot AR mags I would still recommend the Pmags. They operate and feed smoother than the stock magazine and inserting them in a saiga rifle with a closed bolt is much easier than any of my other AR magazines.

Edited by Hemi348
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I cannot get them to drop free even with a fully loaded magazine

That might be a problem, or it might just need to be broken in.

Oh and IMO having drop free mags is not needed. Better SovietSurplus?

As for the fit my P Mags move side to side but not back to front.

My C products and AR stoner do the opposite. All work perfectly though.

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Yes, the fully loaded magazine is the real test. Plastic magazines will always fit a little snugger in the well than metal ones will. But at the very least, a full magazine is the test to determine. I have a few PMags, (No, they aren't my favorite. I prefer government USGI issued mags with magpul gen III followers). But my PMags drop out of my Saiga just fine. I am using the renegadebuck adapter, but it drops freely. (With a Full Magazine). Empty, it's a slight drag. Flicking it works). But even with my M&P15, which one of the PMags came with, an empty mag isn't an automatic drop. And the M&P is pretty well mil-spec.

 

I agree that the magazine may need to break in a little with the mag adapter. But I'm not sure how much tighter in tolerance the MSA adapter is compared to the renegadebuck. How snug are metal magazines? Do empties drop straight out? Remember; mil-spec is designed around metal USGI magazines. Empties should fall straight to the ground, without even breathing. If an empty USGI magazine doesn't drop to the ground without even breathing, then it's possible that when you milled or dremeled the trunnion; to get the AR magazines to go in all the way; it's snagging ever so slightly on the front of the rifle, just below the trunnion. If it is, a slight buffing with a dremel and sanding wheel will take care of that. That happened to mine. Field strip the Saiga. Put an empty PMag magazine SLOWLY into the magwell. See if it's getting stiffer IN THE MAGAZINE, or once it's in to rifle/trunnion area. Good luck. Mike....

Edited by christcorp
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Yes, the fully loaded magazine is the real test. Plastic magazines will always fit a little snugger in the well than metal ones will. But at the very least, a full magazine is the test to determine. I have a few PMags, (No, they aren't my favorite. I prefer government USGI issued mags with magpul gen III followers). But my PMags drop out of my Saiga just fine. I am using the renegadebuck adapter, but it drops freely. (With a Full Magazine). Empty, it's a slight drag. Flicking it works). But even with my M&P15, which one of the PMags came with, an empty mag isn't an automatic drop. And the M&P is pretty well mil-spec.

 

I agree that the magazine may need to break in a little with the mag adapter. But I'm not sure how much tighter in tolerance the MSA adapter is compared to the renegadebuck. How snug are metal magazines? Do empties drop straight out? Remember; mil-spec is designed around metal USGI magazines. Empties should fall straight to the ground, without even breathing. If an empty USGI magazine doesn't drop to the ground without even breathing, then it's possible that when you milled or dremeled the trunnion; to get the AR magazines to go in all the way; it's snagging ever so slightly on the front of the rifle, just below the trunnion. If it is, a slight buffing with a dremel and sanding wheel will take care of that. That happened to mine. Field strip the Saiga. Put an empty PMag magazine SLOWLY into the magwell. See if it's getting stiffer IN THE MAGAZINE, or once it's in to rifle/trunnion area. Good luck. Mike....

 

USGIs drop freely no problem. I don't see the Pmags ever wearing in, I took the latch apart and tried to inserting them in the adapter a couple hundred times with no improvement. The adapter was even cutting material off of the magazine. I went ahead and relieved material from that area and the magazines go in and out much easier but, still do not drop free.

 

The thing is the Pmags dont drop free even when the adapter is out of the rifle so it is definitely the adapter and not my rifle. It appears that the sides of the adapter are too snug for the magazine to drop by itself. I would really hate to take a dremel to it for fear of ruining the adapter.

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Yes, the fully loaded magazine is the real test. Plastic magazines will always fit a little snugger in the well than metal ones will. But at the very least, a full magazine is the test to determine. I have a few PMags, (No, they aren't my favorite. I prefer government USGI issued mags with magpul gen III followers). But my PMags drop out of my Saiga just fine. I am using the renegadebuck adapter, but it drops freely. (With a Full Magazine). Empty, it's a slight drag. Flicking it works). But even with my M&P15, which one of the PMags came with, an empty mag isn't an automatic drop. And the M&P is pretty well mil-spec.

 

I agree that the magazine may need to break in a little with the mag adapter. But I'm not sure how much tighter in tolerance the MSA adapter is compared to the renegadebuck. How snug are metal magazines? Do empties drop straight out? Remember; mil-spec is designed around metal USGI magazines. Empties should fall straight to the ground, without even breathing. If an empty USGI magazine doesn't drop to the ground without even breathing, then it's possible that when you milled or dremeled the trunnion; to get the AR magazines to go in all the way; it's snagging ever so slightly on the front of the rifle, just below the trunnion. If it is, a slight buffing with a dremel and sanding wheel will take care of that. That happened to mine. Field strip the Saiga. Put an empty PMag magazine SLOWLY into the magwell. See if it's getting stiffer IN THE MAGAZINE, or once it's in to rifle/trunnion area. Good luck. Mike....

 

USGIs drop freely no problem. I don't see the Pmags ever wearing in, I took the latch apart and tried to inserting them in the adapter a couple hundred times with no improvement. The adapter was even cutting material off of the magazine. I went ahead and relieved material from that area and the magazines go in and out much easier but, still do not drop free.

 

The thing is the Pmags dont drop free even when the adapter is out of the rifle so it is definitely the adapter and not my rifle. It appears that the sides of the adapter are too snug for the magazine to drop by itself. I would really hate to take a dremel to it for fear of ruining the adapter.

I wouldn't take a dremel to anything. If PMags are the ONLY mags you use, then just get use to it. Your PMags are too expensive and the MSA adapter appears to work fine with the USGI mags. So, basically, don't try and fix it. You're not going off to war; you're not playing war; if you're into "Time Competition" shooting, then use dependable USGI magazines. They seem to work well for you. Believe it or not; not everyone thinks that PMags are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have some, but they aren't my favorite. Not in the least. I prefer USGI mags. "Assuming they have good Gen III followers in them".

 

When it comes to firearms, and in your case a firearm accessory, there is no BEST of anything for all guns. I have a walther PPK pistol in 32acp. Considered a high quality pistol. Yet, there is no way in the world that I can feed it Corbon ammo. It won't even fit in the chamber. Yet, Corbon is considered quality ammo. Now; I'm sure that there are plenty of PPK's out there that will chamber Corbon fine. Mine won't. Am I going to modify or machine my PPK? Hell no. It doesn't like corbon, so, I'll feed it ammo it does like. Just because a weapon doesn't like certain ammo, doesn't mean the ammo is crap. Or that the weapon is crap. I don't like dating Redheads. That doesn't mean readheads are bad. Just not for me. Your MSA doesn't like to freely drop PMags. So what? It's not a big deal. First of all; dropping a magazine freely, so it can intentionally drop hard on the ground, is not something I do with any of my magazines. I did in the military, many times in the middle east and central america; but you aren't using this gun in the military. But if it's really important to you that the magazine drop to the ground, then get magazines that the adapter likes. Buy some quality steel magazines. Definitely don't mess with dremeling the MSA adapter. You may go too far, and then it won't work as well with other magazines. Like I said: my renegadebuck ar/saiga adapter drops the PMags fine. That's not to say that every one of the adapters do. I know people that can't get the 100 round drum magazine to work with their ar mag adapter. It works in mine. Every gun and accessory is different. Don't mess up the adapter.

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All opinions aside, Pmags are the magazines that I own. I think its annoying to have to rip the magazine out of the magwell so I want them to drop free. According to the instructions having Pmags drop free is a "simple" modification. Does anyone know what this process might be?

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All opinions aside, Pmags are the magazines that I own. I think its annoying to have to rip the magazine out of the magwell so I want them to drop free. According to the instructions having Pmags drop free is a "simple" modification. Does anyone know what this process might be?

Well, you've gone from the PMag not simply dropping out of the MSA adapter, to now having to "Rip the Magazine out of the magwell". You also said that USGI mags dropped out fine. But now, it's PMags only that you own. Apparently you borrowed one to try. Guess it's a lot more complicated than I thought. Maybe someone can help you out. I definitely can't. Sorry if I wasted your time.

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As I have said before...if anyone has any questions and they want info on the MSA mag adapters, send me an email or a PM. I have the answers.

 

Hemi348...have you tried going to the MSA website and contacting the MFG about your problem? You might be surprised at the good service you would get if you did.

 

Christcorp is correct...don't go dremeling on your adapter to fix a problem with your mags. If the GI mags drop free then there's nothing wrong with the adapter. The P Mag, just like every other synthetic mag, can have variable dimensions between different mags / different runs. It's the trade off you get when you opt for easy to MFG squirt & split mags, instead of investing in a die and more expensive materials, to press metal ones. Metal mags are pressed in a die, and are the same dimensions, at least very close... until the tooling is worn out.

 

Synthetic mags can have all sorts of problems associated with heat, drying times, composition, etc... Lots can happen after they get squirted into the molds, or even with the molds themselves. They can be off quite a bit from one run to the next. Some PMags will drop free easier than others in my M&P-15. None however are as loose fitting as my C Products metal mags, or GI mags. Same goes with the adapters.

 

BTW I have both the MSA and renegadebuck adapters.

 

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As I have said before...if anyone has any questions and they want info on the MSA mag adapters, send me an email or a PM. I have the answers.

 

Hemi348...have you tried going to the MSA website and contacting the MFG about your problem? You might be surprised at the good service you would get if you did.

 

Christcorp is correct...don't go dremeling on your adapter to fix a problem with your mags. If the GI mags drop free then there's nothing wrong with the adapter. The P Mag, just like every other synthetic mag, can have variable dimensions between different mags / different runs. It's the trade off you get when you opt for easy to MFG squirt & split mags, instead of investing in a die and more expensive materials, to press metal ones. Metal mags are pressed in a die, and are the same dimensions, at least very close... until the tooling is worn out.

 

Synthetic mags can have all sorts of problems associated with heat, drying times, composition, etc... Lots can happen after they get squirted into the molds, or even with the molds themselves. They can be off quite a bit from one run to the next. Some PMags will drop free easier than others in my M&P-15. None however are as loose fitting as my C Products metal mags, or GI mags. Same goes with the adapters.

 

BTW I have both the MSA and renegadebuck adapters.

 

I figured other people might want to use polymer magazines with there adapters so I made a thread instead of a PM. Am I the only odd duck that wants poly mags to drop free?

 

Don't fret guys I was never planning on hacking up my adapter with a dremel. I didnt contact MSA because there is nothing wrong with the adapter. MSA does not claim that the magazines should drop free anywhere (that I have found at least). It works just as advertised so the manufacture is not at fault.

 

I did however buy the Pmags based on the instructions that came with the adapter. So these magazines are not what the adapter was designed around after all?

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The P Mags are the most reliable, dependable mags, which is why they are suggested for use with the adapters. The followers in the GI mags suck balls, making them unreliable. They will drop free no problem though. If you want a mag that falls out of the well, instead of one the MFG suggests you use, then do like Christcorp said and put some decent followers in a metal mag. Synthetic mags don't all measure the same, and don't drop free without a little work. If you just have to use P Mags and have them drop on the ground, take a file and some sandpaper to your mags and get them to where they will drop free. If you have specific questions, please contact me privately.

The first thing a person should do when they have a question about the functionality of a product, is contact the MFG. At least with most people in business, they would much rather spend a few minutes helping you one on one, with any questions you may have...than have to put out a bunch of fires started by someone spreading rumors about their products on an internet forum.

 

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I followed the entire story and understand why people are so testy when the subject is brought up. Please understand, I am not dogging on the adapter. I have had zero problems with it and am very happy that I bought it. The rifle has fed everything that I have put it in with no FTF of FTE. It is made well and fit my rifle perfectly. It was even shipped to me 5 days before I was expecting.

 

I also own both adapters and it is very clear which one I am using. Wanting polymer magazines to drop free is nothing more than my personal preference, not a flaw in the product.

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I followed the entire story and understand why people are so testy when the subject is brought up. Please understand, I am not dogging on the adapter. I have had zero problems with it and am very happy that I bought it. The rifle has fed everything that I have put it in with no FTF of FTE. It is made well and fit my rifle perfectly. It was even shipped to me 5 days before I was expecting.

 

I also own both adapters and it is very clear which one I am using. Wanting polymer magazines to drop free is nothing more than my personal preference, not a flaw in the product.

Since you are not using the other one you can send it my way... :angel::super:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hemi348,

 

I just recently installed my MSA mag adapter in my .223 and I love it! I plan on doing a full write up on it when I can get to my gun and take pictures.

 

I used one of my brother's PMAGs for test fit and to hand cycle some dummy rounds. I quickly found out that it cycled perfectly without any problems. I did, however, notice that there will have to be a break in period (just like anything else thats brand new). To expedite that, I might just toss a buffer wheel on the ol' dremel and smooth up the inside surfaces. I also think I might bevel the bottom inside edge of the magwell to help loading the mags.

 

The problem you might be having is that, with PMAGS, the bolt holds open on the mag follower on the last round, which will definitely hold the mag in place even if you hit the release. I have not observed this with GI mags.

 

If you don't like how the bolt holds open against the follower (I personally don't; its essentially useless, because when you pull the mag out, it closes the bolt) try smoothing down the back edge of the follower (assuming you are looking at it from back of the mag) to allow the bolt to fully close after the last round thus letting the spring pressure of the follower against the bolt to "help" the mag out of the magwell.

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Hemi348,

 

I just recently installed my MSA mag adapter in my .223 and I love it! I plan on doing a full write up on it when I can get to my gun and take pictures.

 

I used one of my brother's PMAGs for test fit and to hand cycle some dummy rounds. I quickly found out that it cycled perfectly without any problems. I did, however, notice that there will have to be a break in period (just like anything else thats brand new). To expedite that, I might just toss a buffer wheel on the ol' dremel and smooth up the inside surfaces. I also think I might bevel the bottom inside edge of the magwell to help loading the mags.

 

The problem you might be having is that, with PMAGS, the bolt holds open on the mag follower on the last round, which will definitely hold the mag in place even if you hit the release. I have not observed this with GI mags.

 

If you don't like how the bolt holds open against the follower (I personally don't; its essentially useless, because when you pull the mag out, it closes the bolt) try smoothing down the back edge of the follower (assuming you are looking at it from back of the mag) to allow the bolt to fully close after the last round thus letting the spring pressure of the follower against the bolt to "help" the mag out of the magwell.

 

Hexus,

 

I appreciate your response. I like your idea of polishing the adapter to smooth things out a little bit. I might pick up a polishing bit for my dremel this weekend. Definitely take pictures if you bevel the magwell I would be interested to see how it functions.

 

My rifle does not lock up like yours on the last round. My bolt has enough momentum to push the follower down and close on an empty chamber. it might be cool if the magazine would hold the bolt back far enough to engage the BHO but, I don't have the BHO feature on my rifle anymore I took it off during my conversion so I am not sure if it would work.

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