ryancreek 2 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Shot my recently converted Saiga 7.62x39 with standard AK Yugo bolt-hold open mags the other day only to find a failure to feed every few shots with some of the mags - yes I have installed a Dinzag bullet guide. Previous to shooting I manually cycled about 100 times, and also smoothed and polished the bullet guide. Also, if I have the magazines fully loaded, they won't seat. The bolt seems to get in the way. But when I take a round out then they will fit - same thing happens with a new Tapco 30 rd. mag I have. I think I have filed the mag catch lever down enough for standard AK mags. It is a little tight on some mags, but I'm worried if I file it even more that it might make the failure to feed problem worse. What's the deal here? Is it just bad mags or something else? Edited January 23, 2011 by ryancreek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 What kind of ammo? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryancreek 2 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) What kind of ammo? Hmm... pretty sure it was Wolf FMJ, but may also have been Barnaul or Herters FMJ. At any rate a good AK should eat them all up no problem - no? And if it was bad ammo, wouldn't you be more likely to have failures to fire or eject? I should also note that the bolt would go OVER the bullets and mar the casings when there were failures to feed. Edited January 23, 2011 by ryancreek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 What kind of ammo? Hmm... pretty sure it was Wolf FMJ, but may also have been Barnaul or Herters FMJ. At any rate a good AK should eat them all up no problem - no? And if it was bad ammo, wouldn't you be more likely to have failures to fire or eject? I should also note that the bolt would go OVER the bullets and mar the casings when there were failures to feed. Soft points can cause feed failures. These rifles were not exactly designed around feeding that type of ammo. At any rate, that doesnt seem to be the problem. Just checking the list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danklab 57 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 You haven't done any fitting on your mags have you? Sounds like something that may happen if you were filing the TOP of your mag latch tabs.. which should never be done. I'm assuming the carrier and bolt have been installed in the rifle correctly since it is feeding part of the time. I have several of the same mags and haven't had an issue with any of mine yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryancreek 2 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) You haven't done any fitting on your mags have you? Sounds like something that may happen if you were filing the TOP of your mag latch tabs.. which should never be done. I'm assuming the carrier and bolt have been installed in the rifle correctly since it is feeding part of the time. I have several of the same mags and haven't had an issue with any of mine yet. I have not modified the magazines in any way. And the carrier and bolt have not been modified either from the original Saiga configuration. But you're saying something similar could happen if the top of the magazine latches were filed, making them fit too high in the mag well and pushing into the bolt? I wonder if my mag catch lever on the rifle might not be filed enough then, making them fit tight and a bit high. The mag catch lever does scratch against the mag catches on all my magazines. The new Tapco mag also cannot fully seat without removing a round.... so how tightly should my mags be fitting and lock into the mag catch lever? Edited January 23, 2011 by ryancreek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) You haven't done any fitting on your mags have you? Sounds like something that may happen if you were filing the TOP of your mag latch tabs.. which should never be done. I'm assuming the carrier and bolt have been installed in the rifle correctly since it is feeding part of the time. I have several of the same mags and haven't had an issue with any of mine yet. I have not modified the magazines in any way. But you're saying something similar could happen if the top of the magazine latches were filed, making them fit too high in the mag well and pushing into the bolt? I wonder if my mag catch lever on the rifle might not be filed enough then, making them fit tight and high. Does the latch snap all the way down on the mags? I dont think that would be the issue, but if it doesnt snap down you will want to go ahead and file some more. Just so it does. Edited January 23, 2011 by Chevyman097 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 When it jams what exactly is it doing? Is it not catching the round or is it feeding them low? When you have a full magazine is it sorta hard to charge it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryancreek 2 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 When it jams what exactly is it doing? Is it not catching the round or is it feeding them low? When you have a full magazine is it sorta hard to charge it? It seems that it tries to catch the round, but mars up the round casing instead, leaving the rounds in the mag with a big scratch on them. When it does feed it feeds perfectly. Rarely it will actually feed high but I think with some more wear on the bullet guide this will diminish. It is not physically hard to charge the rifle on a full mag, but sometimes on the charge it will also not chamber. At this point I think I am going to try totally different mags (to see if these particular Yugo BHO mags are just crap) and possibly file the mag catch lever on the rifle a little bit more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zero2epiphany 4 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 This sounds like a problem that I had when I installed a BG in my .223. Steel cased ammo would sometimes feed but with a big ole ding in the case when it didnt. With brass ammo the bolt when it didnt feed would try and literally shave off brass from the casing. Now what the problem was that the bottom of the bolt where it meets the bolt face on the bottom was at an extremely sharp 90 degree angle. Thats why the rounds where getting all mangled. Took a file and very slightly rounded that edge, then polished it. It hasent jammed since. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 How about taking a picture of the inside of the receiver showing us the bullet guide so we can rule out that it may be the issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danklab 57 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) You haven't done any fitting on your mags have you? Sounds like something that may happen if you were filing the TOP of your mag latch tabs.. which should never be done. I'm assuming the carrier and bolt have been installed in the rifle correctly since it is feeding part of the time. I have several of the same mags and haven't had an issue with any of mine yet. I have not modified the magazines in any way. And the carrier and bolt have not been modified either from the original Saiga configuration. But you're saying something similar could happen if the top of the magazine latches were filed, making them fit too high in the mag well and pushing into the bolt? I wonder if my mag catch lever on the rifle might not be filed enough then, making them fit tight and a bit high. The mag catch lever does scratch against the mag catches on all my magazines. The new Tapco mag also cannot fully seat without removing a round.... so how tightly should my mags be fitting and lock into the mag catch lever? Yeah.. what I was saying is if you'd filed the top of your rear magazine locking tab (lug) it would actually cause the magazine to seat higher than it was intended to. The distance from the top of your mags feed lips to the top of the rear locking lug should be a specific distance for the mag to feed properly.. if that is out of spec for any reason, you would have an issue. (If the rear of the mag was seating too high, I would think your bolt would catch the rounds and cause a low FTF) The bottom of the tab as well as your mag latch can't actually push the magazine up any further than the point that it makes contact with the bottom of your receiver. But if you're mag latch isn't engaging and the mag isn't fully seating, this may be causing your rounds to point upward toward the breech. For example.. if the rear lug isn't fully engaged, your mag will be rocked partially downward causing the tips of your round to point further up into the path of your bolt.. as well as rotating the rear of the mag downward enough that your bolt doesn't catch it as it cycles forward. Are the markings on your rounds showing up about midway.. just behind the neck of the casing? Check to make sure your mags are seating fully.. and that your mag latch completely engages.. meaning that it touches the back side of the mag right at the base of your locking lug. If your mag latch stops about halfway up the bottom of your rear locking lug, then your mags aren't seating properly. If this is the case, you may need to take a little more off of your mag latch. Do this slowly though.. and check with as many mil-surp mags as you can. +1 on the bullet guide pic as well. If it is installed with the lip too close to your mags it will cause the high feeds and bolt to slam on your unfed rounds. Edited January 23, 2011 by danklab Quote Link to post Share on other sites
into_the_knight 22 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Is it trying to double feed? Otherwise it sounds like your bolt is riding high or your mags are sitting low. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Pictures are worth thousands of words. Once he shows us an internal view, with mag and without, we'll be able to deduce a little more here. Until then, we're just shooting blanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 When it jams what exactly is it doing? Is it not catching the round or is it feeding them low? When you have a full magazine is it sorta hard to charge it? It seems that it tries to catch the round, but mars up the round casing instead, leaving the rounds in the mag with a big scratch on them. When it does feed it feeds perfectly. Rarely it will actually feed high but I think with some more wear on the bullet guide this will diminish. It is not physically hard to charge the rifle on a full mag, but sometimes on the charge it will also not chamber. At this point I think I am going to try totally different mags (to see if these particular Yugo BHO mags are just crap) and possibly file the mag catch lever on the rifle a little bit more. I had a machining flaw on my bolt that made mine do something similar to yours. The part of the bolt that makes contact with the rounds when charging it had a lump where it should have been smooth. Got it fixed and now it runs fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 When it jams what exactly is it doing? Is it not catching the round or is it feeding them low? When you have a full magazine is it sorta hard to charge it? It seems that it tries to catch the round, but mars up the round casing instead, leaving the rounds in the mag with a big scratch on them. When it does feed it feeds perfectly. Rarely it will actually feed high but I think with some more wear on the bullet guide this will diminish. It is not physically hard to charge the rifle on a full mag, but sometimes on the charge it will also not chamber. At this point I think I am going to try totally different mags (to see if these particular Yugo BHO mags are just crap) and possibly file the mag catch lever on the rifle a little bit more. I had a machining flaw on my bolt that made mine do something similar to yours. The part of the bolt that makes contact with the rounds when charging it had a lump where it should have been smooth. Got it fixed and now it runs fine. He raises a good point, when you take some photos, take some of the bolt as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
postbanben 9 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 you can use the trouble mags in a gun that works then you can dis/count the mags.i didn't read much of the thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LtDan 4 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) I have a new 7.62 Saiga with a 20 barrel. After spending every evening in the last two weeks catching all the latest and greatest info. I tried to get 10 Rd Saiga mags but most dealers want a pint of blood for a magazine. I went with a bullet guide I have a round bottom model, and bought 2 Tapco 10 Rdrs and my 5 Round Saiga. The only mod I did other than the BG was to file the lower latch of the mag so the Saiga Mag latch would lock in. I did then have to mod the stock Saiga mag to fit with the bullet guide installed. I ordered from K-Var another mag latch (BULG) that when and if those thinned out Tapco mags ever break their lugs I will mod the new latch and put it in so the mags from any AK will function. I ran through 150 rounds today not one misfire or failure to feed. The stock Tapco mag will not let the latch lock it in without some thinning on the lower part of the rear latch lug. If the mag doesn't lock it the Bolt will push the mag down thus scraping the round. Man K-Var shipped that mag latch,spring and rivet in a box that was 8" x 14" x 12", my mail man hates me Edited January 30, 2011 by LtDan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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