grendelz 61 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 They were absolutely crazy about double stacks. Everybody is, start taking orders ). Jesus he said double stacks!!!! where is my credit card! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Debt 350 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I liked the idea of a SA combo but I think I would have rotated the Saiga 90 degrees and put grip on it facing to the left. That way the operator could hold both grips and could even select which fire arm to use in the building without moving either hand. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I wish this show wasn't on T.V. for two reasons, first and foremost it draws the kind of attention to the gun industry that we really don't need. When every liberal in America can turn on his or her T.V. and see that machine guns, SBR/SBS, and suppressors are available to anyone that meets the requirements it isn't something to celebrate. I would much rather this kind of information stay off of the mainstream public's radar so we don't give them the ammunition for lack of a better word to come after our guns and freedoms. Everytime I go to a gun range with an SBR I have people ask me if my SBR is legal, I then explain to them that it is and how many hoops I jumped through to legally own it and these are people who are pro-gun. The show just glosses over the steps and time period it takes to own an NFA item so your average Joe gets the impression that with an hours worth of paperwork and $2500.00 you too can walk out with a suppressed shotgun. Secondly enough with the manufactured shop drama that all these shows create it has become a tired formula. I would much rather see them take a gun from start to finish in an episode showing all the steps along the way than this crap between him and his daughter about spending money. I am sure this is how Discovery has edited the show but I won't continue to watch if this is going to be the worn out formula that OCC and the rest have given us for years. Shit two weeks ago everyone was scared to death that the ATF was coming to get their Saigas now we are jumping up and down about a show that publicizes to the whole world what we do to these shotguns! Your average Congress person has no idea what goes on at gun shows or in the gun industry, when their constituency starts calling about some show they saw on T.V. they will take the time to investigate further and pass laws accordingly. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parson Julabee Jones 32 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I wish this show wasn't on T.V. for two reasons, first and foremost it draws the kind of attention to the gun industry that we really don't need. When every liberal in America can turn on his or her T.V. and see that machine guns, SBR/SBS, and suppressors are available to anyone that meets the requirements it isn't something to celebrate. I would much rather this kind of information stay off of the mainstream public's radar so we don't give them the ammunition for lack of a better word to come after our guns and freedoms. Everytime I go to a gun range with an SBR I have people ask me if my SBR is legal, I then explain to them that it is and how many hoops I jumped through to legally own it and these are people who are pro-gun. The show just glosses over the steps and time period it takes to own an NFA item so your average Joe gets the impression that with an hours worth of paperwork and $2500.00 you too can walk out with a suppressed shotgun. Secondly enough with the manufactured shop drama that all these shows create it has become a tired formula. I would much rather see them take a gun from start to finish in an episode showing all the steps along the way than this crap between him and his daughter about spending money. I am sure this is how Discovery has edited the show but I won't continue to watch if this is going to be the worn out formula that OCC and the rest have given us for years. Shit two weeks ago everyone was scared to death that the ATF was coming to get their Saigas now we are jumping up and down about a show that publicizes to the whole world what we do to these shotguns! Your average Congress person has no idea what goes on at gun shows or in the gun industry, when their constituency starts calling about some show they saw on T.V. they will take the time to investigate further and pass laws accordingly. I have a nephew and neice who appeared on one or other of the reality shows on the Home and Garden Network. There were remodeling their kitchen, and were paid around 2500 dollars for appearing on the show. However, the producers required at least one good 'argument' during the taping of the show, and even suggested what it should be....television today always seeks the lowest common demoninator insofar as appealing to the lowest in human nature. Unfortunately, they aren't very subtle in doing so, and those manufactured elements of emotional outbursts and angst are so doggoned fake and apparent. It's what I hate most about unreal 'reality' programming. Evidently, Hollywood producers from the get go, wake up every day thinking we're stupider than we were the day before, and they program with this in mind. On the other hand, as of this point in time, we, as gun owners. probably have the greatest freedom experienced in many years. We have right to carry, open carry, and in many ways, a general acceptance of the place of guns in society. But we are unusual, having passion for guns, and are willing to talk about guns, write about guns, spend money, time and effort on guns, in pursuit of that passion. Unfortunately, the opposition, who would remove all guns from the hands of the public, regardless of what our history and our founding fathers have shown us....are just as passionate, and nowhere near as honest in their passion, as we are. Let's hope we're stronger than they. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torqued 8 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I wish this show wasn't on T.V. for two reasons, first and foremost it draws the kind of attention to the gun industry that we really don't need. When every liberal in America can turn on his or her T.V. and see that machine guns, SBR/SBS, and suppressors are available to anyone that meets the requirements it isn't something to celebrate. I would much rather this kind of information stay off of the mainstream public's radar so we don't give them the ammunition for lack of a better word to come after our guns and freedoms. Everytime I go to a gun range with an SBR I have people ask me if my SBR is legal, I then explain to them that it is and how many hoops I jumped through to legally own it and these are people who are pro-gun. The show just glosses over the steps and time period it takes to own an NFA item so your average Joe gets the impression that with an hours worth of paperwork and $2500.00 you too can walk out with a suppressed shotgun. Secondly enough with the manufactured shop drama that all these shows create it has become a tired formula. I would much rather see them take a gun from start to finish in an episode showing all the steps along the way than this crap between him and his daughter about spending money. I am sure this is how Discovery has edited the show but I won't continue to watch if this is going to be the worn out formula that OCC and the rest have given us for years. Shit two weeks ago everyone was scared to death that the ATF was coming to get their Saigas now we are jumping up and down about a show that publicizes to the whole world what we do to these shotguns! Your average Congress person has no idea what goes on at gun shows or in the gun industry, when their constituency starts calling about some show they saw on T.V. they will take the time to investigate further and pass laws accordingly. On the other hand, as of this point in time, we, as gun owners. probably have the greatest freedom experienced in many years. We have right to carry, open carry, and in many ways, a general acceptance of the place of guns in society. But we are unusual, having passion for guns, and are willing to talk about guns, write about guns, spend money, time and effort on guns, in pursuit of that passion. Unfortunately, the opposition, who would remove all guns from the hands of the public, regardless of what our history and our founding fathers have shown us....are just as passionate, and nowhere near as honest in their passion, as we are. Let's hope we're stronger than they. That may be true in your state, but not most. We can't carry, nor can we own any NFA in or shitty state of IL. Fucking big cities are the cause of alot of BS legislation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Im no weapons and tactics expert but a much better idea would be for the lead guy to breach the door with a remmy 870 or a good ol fashioned door breacher and then have him go in last while the guys behind him go in immediately after breach. Its faster than a transition even with a "master key". Well technically yes...but realistically every man knows his position and everyones else's position in case things get mixed up. Also, the rear man usually comes up from the rear, breaches and rolls away from the door as the team enters and then he follows them in. That's how we did it in practice in the military. Many SRT guys follow suit. If the door is locked and needs breaching, he is called up from the rear of the stack to do so. Not all doors can be breached with a Masterkey however. The breacher normally has manual means on his person as well. (Sledgehammer and Hooligan tool). The military also has frangible breaching rounds for a different Masterkey called the M-203. ETA: I thought the RJF Masterkey was creative though. Edited February 1, 2011 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 MT Predator-Haligan bar bro! Hooligan is what the Brits and Aussies call it I believe. It was my favorite tool in the fire department, it may not be as fast as a shotgun but they can open jusssssssst about anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jager 1 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 In my opinion; the way we prevent more gun control legislation is to educate the people. We need to let them know what they can legally own if they wish. More people involved in (lawful) shooting of any kind increases our voting numbers. Some people treat the gun control issue with a "it don't affect me" attitude. This can change by getting them involved. The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. ----Alexander Hamilton As for the show, I like it so far and will continue to tune in. Keep up the good work Will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 No it was ACTUALLY an M203 40mm grenade launcher he used. It was the same exact old ass one the army uses (I just got out of the army and I used them alllll the time). It wasn't a flare launcher, it was just a 40mm flare, launched out of an M203 40mm grenade launcher. Which is pretty common. you can't even get actual 40mm HE or HEDP grenades unless you ARE the military. Some companies sell flares and smoke grenades that can be launched out of these for "entertainment" purposes. Here is the exact same one they used on the show, if I am correct.. It was a 37mm round, it said so right on the box he got it out of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mark4567 4 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes a shotgun makes a hell of a CQB weapon But not for a SWAT officer. If you knew everyone in the house was a bad guy just breach the door and go in with 00 buck. Unfortunately not everyone in a house are suspects. Wives or girlfriends and children are usually there as well. So if the perp decides to shoot it out the M-4 platform or H&K MP-5 are much more accurate for hostage shots (shooting around a hostage) that any shotgun. PIZDA, You need to check out the Speer Lawman rounds. They are reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 Buck (maybe a wee bit more punch than Federal bulk pack). Out of a 19inch Saiga-12 they will hold a 5 inch pattern at 25 yards with no flyers!!! They was designed so LE could take hostage shoots to the head out to this range. Anything closer and it is a lot like a slug but without the massive penetration. This stuff is really incredible. At 50 yards I was getting around 10 to 12 inch patterns from a 19 inch Saiga-12 with an occasional flyer. Tony and Bob tested it from an 8 inch SBS and was getting around 9 or 10 inches at 25 yards! Not to cheap but really no more expensive than any other ammo you would (should) buy for home defense. Also we demoed (let them played with a Glock 18, M60E4, FA Saiga-12, & an 8 inch Saiga-12) some guns for a local SRT (new politically correct term for SWAT) team. Most said they would prefer the 8 inch Saiga over their MP5s. They obviously didn't like the drums for entry and prefered the sticks. They were absolutely crazy about double stacks. Oh yeah, I also wasn't a bit surprised to see the SRT team was using Speer Lawman 00 Buck as well... We use lawman Buck in the 870's in patrol cars. But the lawyers would have a heart attack if we even mentioned using shotguns on a entry. Its not what the guys want so much as what we are allowed!!! Welcome to N.Y. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 My only observation was that Will daughter seems a hell of a lot more lethal and ill tempered than any of the guns he made (poor bastard). Screw the door breacher, just have SWAT send her in after their asses Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I believe ep 3 is on tonight at 9:00. Get with it Saiga forums. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I believe ep 3 is on tonight at 9:00. Get with it Saiga forums. Yup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Im no weapons and tactics expert but a much better idea would be for the lead guy to breach the door with a remmy 870 or a good ol fashioned door breacher and then have him go in last while the guys behind him go in immediately after breach. Its faster than a transition even with a "master key". Well technically yes...but realistically every man knows his position and everyones else's position in case things get mixed up. Also, the rear man usually comes up from the rear, breaches and rolls away from the door as the team enters and then he follows them in. That's how we did it in practice in the military. Many SRT guys follow suit. If the door is locked and needs breaching, he is called up from the rear of the stack to do so. Not all doors can be breached with a Masterkey however. The breacher normally has manual means on his person as well. (Sledgehammer and Hooligan tool). The military also has frangible breaching rounds for a different Masterkey called the M-203. ETA: I thought the RJF Masterkey was creative though. No it was ACTUALLY an M203 40mm grenade launcher he used. It was the same exact old ass one the army uses (I just got out of the army and I used them alllll the time). It wasn't a flare launcher, it was just a 40mm flare, launched out of an M203 40mm grenade launcher. Which is pretty common. you can't even get actual 40mm HE or HEDP grenades unless you ARE the military. Some companies sell flares and smoke grenades that can be launched out of these for "entertainment" purposes. Here is the exact same one they used on the show, if I am correct.. It was a 37mm round, it said so right on the box he got it out of. Predator, that's exactly how we trained and also our SOP during raids while deployed. Azrial, I stand corrected Edited February 3, 2011 by JJ the GUN MAN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Get your popcorn bitches... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZFast300Z 0 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Really? People here are impressed by the master key? That's kind of disappointing. I am done watching the show after one episode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Really? People here are impressed by the master key? That's kind of disappointing. I am done watching the show after one episode. Sounds like you had already made up your mind before you even watched it. I thought the S12 was the wrong choice for a master key but I think the show is pretty sweet. Name any other show out there that caters to a crowd like this one. Try to enjoy the other episodes that you will deny watching ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZFast300Z 0 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I watched the master key. That was more then enough for me. I'm watching Minute to Win It right now. I would almost feel like I robbed someone selling a master key manufactured like that for $3,000. But I guess if you can find some one to pay the price for that, then more power to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I really liked tonights episodes. The personal iteraction seemed a bit forced/manufactured. But I'm sure that comes from being nervous. I hope SOGs makes it. GJ Will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Debt 350 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Anyone besides me want to see Will make a SBS Bull Pup S-12 with my Quad Rail 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Yes a shotgun makes a hell of a CQB weapon But not for a SWAT officer. If you knew everyone in the house was a bad guy just breach the door and go in with 00 buck. Unfortunately not everyone in a house are suspects. Wives or girlfriends and children are usually there as well. So if the perp decides to shoot it out the M-4 platform or H&K MP-5 are much more accurate for hostage shots (shooting around a hostage) that any shotgun. PIZDA, You need to check out the Speer Lawman rounds. They are reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 Buck (maybe a wee bit more punch than Federal bulk pack). Out of a 19inch Saiga-12 they will hold a 5 inch pattern at 25 yards with no flyers!!! They was designed so LE could take hostage shoots to the head out to this range. Anything closer and it is a lot like a slug but without the massive penetration. This stuff is really incredible. At 50 yards I was getting around 10 to 12 inch patterns from a 19 inch Saiga-12 with an occasional flyer. Tony and Bob tested it from an 8 inch SBS and was getting around 9 or 10 inches at 25 yards! Not to cheap but really no more expensive than any other ammo you would (should) buy for home defense. Also we demoed (let them played with a Glock 18, M60E4, FA Saiga-12, & an 8 inch Saiga-12) some guns for a local SRT (new politically correct term for SWAT) team. Most said they would prefer the 8 inch Saiga over their MP5s. They obviously didn't like the drums for entry and prefered the sticks. They were absolutely crazy about double stacks. Oh yeah, I also wasn't a bit surprised to see the SRT team was using Speer Lawman 00 Buck as well... Doublestacks, you were showing off doublestacks? I have money, will travel........ Preorder? Sell me some, please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tsawy93 19 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Anyone besides me want to see Will make a SBS Bull Pup S-12 with my Quad Rail A Bull Pup SBS S12? Wouldn't that put the barrel BEHIND YOU!!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Anyone besides me want to see Will make a SBS Bull Pup S-12 with my Quad Rail A Bull Pup SBS S12? Wouldn't that put the barrel BEHIND YOU!!! :lolol: :lolol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macgyverhk 3 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I watched it for the first time yesturday. Wish it would be pulled from the air immediately. It is neigther a good representation of the gun community or of responsible gun usage. Just you wait till the librals start watching and taking notes. Thank you very little Discovery Channel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acorn1754 2 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I watched the master key. That was more then enough for me. I'm watching Minute to Win It right now. I would almost feel like I robbed someone selling a master key manufactured like that for $3,000. But I guess if you can find some one to pay the price for that, then more power to you. I believe that it's $3000 for the AR-15 and Saiga 12 masterkey combination, that's very reasonably priced IMO. Heck, they only charge $2500 for a silenced Saiga 12. I think you need to pay attention more before jumping to such quick conclusions. Edited February 3, 2011 by acorn1754 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) MT Predator-Haligan bar bro! Hooligan is what the Brits and Aussies call it I believe. It was my favorite tool in the fire department, it may not be as fast as a shotgun but they can open jusssssssst about anything. I know it's Haligan. Hooligan is slang with military breachers named after Hooligans as both will destroy shit. Thing is, sometimes a breaching round won't do shit but a bar or hammer will. Edited February 3, 2011 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Meh...reality tv, not the best nor the worse among these shows. But I am more inclined to watch this to see the cool stuff they build and shoot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I watched it for the first time yesturday. Wish it would be pulled from the air immediately. It is neigther a good representation of the gun community or of responsible gun usage. Just you wait till the librals start watching and taking notes. Thank you very little Discovery Channel. Your post isn't a good representation of the gun community. Your spelling errors make us all look uneducated: "yesturday", "neigther" and "librals". Oh, BTW, MacGyver was openly anti-gun, as was the man who played him, in real life. Just sayin'. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waffles 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I watched Will's show for the first and I have to say I love the show. I will be tuning in every week for sure. I wonder if Will will post on these forums anymore now that he is a busy tv star. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Great show! I know it's out of red jackets hands but I wish the episodes were longer with less commercials. It would be cool to see them go a little more in depth with the Saiga's and talk about the conversion process too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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