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ATF Shotgun Study - Here it is!


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"l would like to point out that you still havent owned up to, or explained the fact that you say "I can't wait to see you guys facing registration, destruction, or burial of your permanently converted guns." and still consider yourself a god in the saiga community"

 

Well, in a way, I kind of can't wait, because thats exactly what I have said all along, keep your options open, failing to do so, some may face those exact same consequences I saw people go through with the registration of the Striker12/StreetSweepers, some places do not allow posession of class three items, so cut it up, or sell it, some won't register them, and some will, depending on how much you fear Uncle Salty coming to get them, vs. being illegal and being able to have them, if needed.

 

IF you don't keep your own options open, you sir, are as stupid as anyone else who doesn't have the foresight to see ahead, and the memory to see what happened in the past, and how it shapes the future in front of you.

 

AS for my tone, it was exactly as respectful as your post asking me the questions I answered, so what did you expect?

 

Bridis, I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, I have never put forth registration will make anything less valuable if registered, it will, in fact make it worth more, offering to buy my guns at a ridiculous price is just plain stupid, however, I do know a few predatory types, who were out there offering people nothing for their Streetsweepers in the last few weeks before they had to be registered, only because the owners were afraid of losing them to the BATF for some reason, or because they didn't want their name on the list.

 

IF thats what you want, go for it, smells of scumbag-ism to me though.

 

 

I also recall a moderator requesting that this thread stay on track. Hopefully you've said your piece and fell comfortable enough to move on. <_<

 

So do I, but I tend not to like letting PERSONAL attacks go without a response.

 

As for the mods, why don't you split this thread and put it in the private place, so we go at this with gloves off?

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This is not true. I spoke with them this week and they are still importing Saiga's. Things are just moving much slower due to the distributor companies buying all his inventory and jacking the prices

I have been going to the ATF website every day looking to see what they have posted and today I see that the Study that has been touted since last week in now posted. Here is a link to the study:  

I will make sure I put some videos up on Youtube of 5-shot, 2 minute-long mag dumps so people will see how sporting my Saigas are.   I don't see the sky falling, despite some comments here.   Wh

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Well, in a way, I kind of can't wait, because thats exactly what I have said all along, keep your options open, failing to do so, some may face those exact same consequences I saw people go through with the registration of the Striker12/StreetSweepers, some places do not allow posession of class three items, so cut it up, or sell it, some won't register them, and some will, depending on how much you fear Uncle Salty coming to get them, vs. being illegal and being able to have them, if needed.

 

AS for my tone, it was exactly as respectful as your post asking me the questions I answered, so what did you expect?

 

 

That was my point, that you feel so superior, that you have to say "l told you so" to satisfy the ego you've erected around yourself in your time in this business. Period. End of Story. Your tone never offended me, it was your superiority complex as relayed through your first post. As for your reply to mine, it was to be expected from someone who spouts like you. Wish you the best, enjoy your life, or whats left of it.

Edited by ZombieSlayer
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Well, in a way, I kind of can't wait, because thats exactly what I have said all along, keep your options open, failing to do so, some may face those exact same consequences I saw people go through with the registration of the Striker12/StreetSweepers, some places do not allow posession of class three items, so cut it up, or sell it, some won't register them, and some will, depending on how much you fear Uncle Salty coming to get them, vs. being illegal and being able to have them, if needed.

 

AS for my tone, it was exactly as respectful as your post asking me the questions I answered, so what did you expect?

 

 

That was my point, that you feel so superior, that you have to say "l told you so" to satisfy the ego you've erected around yourself in your time in this business. Period. End of Story. Your tone never offended me, it was your superiority complex as relayed through your first post. As for your reply to mine, it was to be expected from someone who spouts like you. Wish you the best, enjoy your life, or whats left of it.

 

+1

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I'm late on this, but what R and R targets is doing is EXACTLY what we need. I'm getting to be an old fart, but back in the day I was heavy into tourney paintball and everyone thought the game was a bunch of para mil types with guns playing war games. In conjunction with my teams sponsors we helped bring it out of the woods into main stream by leaving the camo behind and switching to bright clothing , getting our guns done up in bright anodized colors, and changing things from a woods game to a field game on Hyperball/Speedball fields where it could be watched by spectators. R and R and a lot of 3 gun shooters are in effect, doing the same. They are NOT in camo, they use BRIGHT flashy guns, and if you could do things to make the shoots more spectator friendly and get the events covered in the media it could help change the perception of shooting sports. While it's not an end all, fix all I think it is a step in the right dirrection to countering some attempts on our rights as gun owners and if nothing else, may grow the sport of competitive shooting.

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I'm late on this, but what R and R targets is doing is EXACTLY what we need. I'm getting to be an old fart, but back in the day I was heavy into tourney paintball and everyone thought the game was a bunch of para mil types with guns playing war games. In conjunction with my teams sponsors we helped bring it out of the woods into main stream by leaving the camo behind and switching to bright clothing , getting our guns done up in bright anodized colors, and changing things from a woods game to a field game on Hyperball/Speedball fields where it could be watched by spectators. R and R and a lot of 3 gun shooters are in effect, doing the same. They are NOT in camo, they use BRIGHT flashy guns, and if you could do things to make the shoots more spectator friendly and get the events covered in the media it could help change the perception of shooting sports. While it's not an end all, fix all I think it is a step in the right dirrection to countering some attempts on our rights as gun owners and if nothing else, may grow the sport of competitive shooting.

 

 

Good points! :super:

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"Your tone never offended me, it was your superiority complex"

 

Read my sig lines if you need further clarification... Besides if you are right, its not a complex.

 

And, before you go bashing somebody next time, remember it goes against the rules of etiquette if you call them an "A$hole" in your initial personal attack.(Don't trust me, email Miss Manners)

 

I for one prefer being called a good old fashioned "Asshole", but not on the first date, you gotta be a gentlemen for at least the first two, then I don't mind if you call me one.

 

As for life, enjoy whats left of yours, I wouldn't make a habit of taking that tone with people older than you in real life, because the older you get, the less time starts to matter to you, especially as far as sentencing guidelines go.....

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"I'm late on this, but what R and R targets is doing is EXACTLY what we need. I'm getting to be an old fart, but back in the day I was heavy into tourney paintball and everyone thought the game was a bunch of para mil types with guns playing war games. In conjunction with my teams sponsors we helped bring it out of the woods into main stream by leaving the camo behind and switching to bright clothing , getting our guns done up in bright anodized colors, and changing things from a woods game to a field game on Hyperball/Speedball fields where it could be watched by spectators. R and R and a lot of 3 gun shooters are in effect, doing the same. They are NOT in camo, they use BRIGHT flashy guns, and if you could do things to make the shoots more spectator friendly and get the events covered in the media it could help change the perception of shooting sports. While it's not an end all, fix all I think it is a step in the right dirrection to countering some attempts on our rights as gun owners and if nothing else, may grow the sport of competitive shooting."

 

 

Good thoughts, we went through the same thing, people in the town next to the woods where we played, thought we were "THE MILITIA" out training, at least that was the rumor going around, I just started a counter rumor that we were "Cuban Exiles" who were training to go back to Cuba and fight Castro, then they pretty much thought we were OK. And like you, eventually the wooded places closed, and it went to the courses you mentioned, and even inside, under black lights.

 

With only one exception that I know of, nobody ever died from playing with a paintball gun though, and thats a tough sell, I mean, if the guy in AZ had painted GG, instead of using a glock, I don't think Chuck Shumer would be focusing on a high cap mag ban today.

 

Seriously, most people that fear guns, fear shotguns the most, because of the enormous amount of damage that can be done with ONE shot, let alone 20, when I showed my Saiga, with its "Fricked up" conversion, and an MD20 drum inserted in it to friends, who ARE gun owners, the most common response was, "What the hell are you going to do with that?", and these are gun friendly people.

 

Making it seem sporting is just going to be one hell of a challenge, impossible? I dunno, but damn its going to be hard, especially to the unwashed, non gun owning, masses.

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"I'm late on this, but what R and R targets is doing is EXACTLY what we need. I'm getting to be an old fart, but back in the day I was heavy into tourney paintball and everyone thought the game was a bunch of para mil types with guns playing war games. In conjunction with my teams sponsors we helped bring it out of the woods into main stream by leaving the camo behind and switching to bright clothing , getting our guns done up in bright anodized colors, and changing things from a woods game to a field game on Hyperball/Speedball fields where it could be watched by spectators. R and R and a lot of 3 gun shooters are in effect, doing the same. They are NOT in camo, they use BRIGHT flashy guns, and if you could do things to make the shoots more spectator friendly and get the events covered in the media it could help change the perception of shooting sports. While it's not an end all, fix all I think it is a step in the right dirrection to countering some attempts on our rights as gun owners and if nothing else, may grow the sport of competitive shooting."

 

 

Good thoughts, we went through the same thing, people in the town next to the woods where we played, thought we were "THE MILITIA" out training, at least that was the rumor going around, I just started a counter rumor that we were "Cuban Exiles" who were training to go back to Cuba and fight Castro, then they pretty much thought we were OK. And like you, eventually the wooded places closed, and it went to the courses you mentioned, and even inside, under black lights.

 

With only one exception that I know of, nobody ever died from playing with a paintball gun though, and thats a tough sell, I mean, if the guy in AZ had painted GG, instead of using a glock, I don't think Chuck Shumer would be focusing on a high cap mag ban today.

 

Seriously, most people that fear guns, fear shotguns the most, because of the enormous amount of damage that can be done with ONE shot, let alone 20, when I showed my Saiga, with its "Fricked up" conversion, and an MD20 drum inserted in it to friends, who ARE gun owners, the most common response was, "What the hell are you going to do with that?", and these are gun friendly people.

 

Making it seem sporting is just going to be one hell of a challenge, impossible? I dunno, but damn its going to be hard, especially to the unwashed, non gun owning, masses.

actually there have been a few cases of people dying from paintball markers.

some yayhoo was trying to "FIX" a tank before it was empty. flew of table hitting him in the chest. he is dead.

another case was a moron shot his buddy in the face point blank, the unfortunate victom was hit in the eye (he was not wearing a mask) he too is dead.

 

most of the accidental death cases im aware of involved improper care of the gas system.

 

i used to play paintball a few years back, and i had a good time. but we where always keen on keaping it safe.

 

is it a common accurance? no. has it happened? yes. pretty much anything can kill you if your motivated enough.

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"Your tone never offended me, it was your superiority complex"

 

Read my sig lines if you need further clarification... Besides if you are right, its not a complex.

 

And, before you go bashing somebody next time, remember it goes against the rules of etiquette if you call them an "A$hole" in your initial personal attack.(Don't trust me, email Miss Manners)

 

I for one prefer being called a good old fashioned "Asshole", but not on the first date, you gotta be a gentlemen for at least the first two, then I don't mind if you call me one.

 

As for life, enjoy whats left of yours, I wouldn't make a habit of taking that tone with people older than you in real life, because the older you get, the less time starts to matter to you, especially as far as sentencing guidelines go.....

 

I always thought that the backup singer to Denis Leary in the song "Asshole" was Kyle Gass of Tenacious D...

 

Damnit! Now that song is in my head!

 

"I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job, I'm your average white, sub-urbanite slob. I like football, and porno, and books about war..." :super:

Edited by Caged
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My only point being that R and R, three gun shooters, etc make a positive impression in terms of shooting sports (not that it has anything to do with our second amendment rights). The paintball reference is only an example of how public perception can be changed to some effect. I've never heard of anyone calling the Biathlon in the Olympics an evil thing. It's a bitch that I find myself as a gun owner looking for ways to justify reasons that I have the right in this country to own a gun to asshats that should be preserving our way of life.

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I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought.

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I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought.

 

 

thats a very good point

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I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought.

hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult.

 

 

just my :2c:

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I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought.

 

I am working on a memo, complete with photos shooting my Saiga 12 at the sporting clays club, and at the next 3 gun.

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I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought.

hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult.

 

 

just my :2c:

 

 

most non gun owning PEOPLE do not understand gun owners, and can't comprehend why anyone would justify anything like a Saiga

Cops are people too, and come from the same pool as any other profession. I digress, as I don't want this thread to go of track.

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I think the pictures of the MD arms drums are just there as they are the only currently made drum.

 

They could have merely been saying that they can't be imported with the drums. tons of rifles are altered once they get in country, I don't see what ATF cares about.

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I saw an bone stock S12 at the gun show today 950 bucks...ouch!

 

 

Your joking??

 

 

No not at all...serious as a heart attack! The guy was telling me he was making a mere $65 dollar profit. At this point I inserted the raised eyebrow and bulls**t head nod into the conversation and walked away.

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I sure hope the owner of the gun was not a member here. That's all we need is negative attention. Notice how they described the saiga in detail. How often do you hear that kind of detail about the gun in an article like that? Seems like the gun, not the crime, got most of the attention from the officers and media.

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Notice how they described the saiga in detail. How often do you hear that kind of detail about the gun in an article like that? Seems like the gun, not the crime, got most of the attention from the officers and media.

 

Exactly what I was thinking when I was reading it.

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I sure hope the owner of the gun was not a member here. That's all we need is negative attention. Notice how they described the saiga in detail. How often do you hear that kind of detail about the gun in an article like that? Seems like the gun, not the crime, got most of the attention from the officers and media.

 

Yeah exactly. That is very unusual to have that level of detail. Usually it's just "firearm" or "handgun"

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