Nick89 1 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. Edited February 8, 2011 by Nick89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnInNH 0 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Another thing. HOW ABOUT TAKE YOUR DRUM/MAG DUMP & BUMPFIRE VIDEOS DOWN OFF YOUTUBE! That right there is the most intelligent sentence in this thread. All you self proclaimed bad-asses that put those stupid videos on youtube are doing more harm then you can imagine. If you think that the government doesn't view those videos, your sadly mistaken. Grow up, quit thinking your some kind of mercenary soldier of fortune, and quit placing those videos on public web sites. If you want a shotgun or a rifle to remain classified as sporting purposes, then treat it as a sporting gun while in the public eye. If you want them declared as a destructive devise, then keep doing what you're doing. Ruin it for the rest of us. I don't care how you use your shotgun or rifle in the privacy of your backyard or at the range. Just don't broadcast it to the world. You have no one to blame but yourselves. Said by a person with an avatar that has "Run you will only get tired" LOL... with cross hair (read political PC crap about that) and evil tactical "sniper rifle" with: Tactical military non sporting bi-pod, flashider, and hi-powered sniper scope Tactical "sniper" matches are not a "sporting purpose" either.. They have talked about banning "sniper rifles" too. Just saying... We all have to watch our 6. What we think is cool or funny may be ammo for the Anti's and the .gov Even at my local range trying to shoot clays with a SAIGA is not allowed (it's black and uses a mag) Now if it had a vent rib and shiny WOOD furniture MAYBE they might let you shoot it. Just busting your chops.. See my sig line. Edited February 8, 2011 by JohnInNH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Tactical "sniper" matches are not a "sporting purpose" either.. They have talked about banning "sniper rifles" too. Sniper rifles do have a sporting purpose because everyone I know who hunts big game uses a scoped rifle. They dont need a sporting purpose because the bore dia is smaller than .50 Another thing. HOW ABOUT TAKE YOUR DRUM/MAG DUMP & BUMPFIRE VIDEOS DOWN OFF YOUTUBE! That right there is the most intelligent sentence in this thread. All you self proclaimed bad-asses that put those stupid videos on youtube are doing more harm then you can imagine. If you think that the government doesn't view those videos, your sadly mistaken. Posting vids on youtube is stupid but wont effect what the ATF does. They enforce the rules, the bills passed by the house, senate, and signed by the president. These studys determine and define what is and isent a "sporting purrpose" What is and isent suitable for "sporting purposes" stop your paranoid delusions Edited February 8, 2011 by mike123456 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. i too work with LEO on a daily basis. and while some may not have a problem with citizens owning guns, the ones i work around have the "what do you need that for?" attitude. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick89 1 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. i too work with LEO on a daily basis. and while some may not have a problem with citizens owning guns, the ones i work around have the "what do you need that for?" attitude. I feel fortunate to not have to work with guys that think like that, The guys I work with always ask how she shoots and when were going to the range next before anything else. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aslyguy 5 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 This article sums up my opinions on all of it http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/what-guns-would-the-founders-ban/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonblack 9 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Even though the yellow sheet stays with the dealer, who do you think the phone call with your drivers license is made to-maybe the tooth fairy When dealers call in your NCIC, we are only asked Handgun or Long gun. "they" don't know if you bought a pardner single shot .22 or Saiga 12. That is exactly right. The Form 4473 stays with the FFL holder. It can be viewed by ATF agents if they visit the premises, though. jonblack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigmegina 3 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is exactly right. The Form 4473 stays with the FFL holder. It can be viewed by ATF agents if they visit the premises, though. that is correct.how do you think they got the names of people who had street sweepers,stryker 12s and usas shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Jeff Knox opinion piece on this topic. Sounds like he has been reading my posts..... Jeff Knox on Shotgun study Edited February 10, 2011 by frick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. i too work with LEO on a daily basis. and while some may not have a problem with citizens owning guns, the ones i work around have the "what do you need that for?" attitude. Odd... Most LEO's I know wanna go shootin'.. Some have even given me cases of ammo! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. i too work with LEO on a daily basis. and while some may not have a problem with citizens owning guns, the ones i work around have the "what do you need that for?" attitude. Odd... Most LEO's I know wanna go shootin'.. Some have even given me cases of ammo! i wish i could meet more like that! most of our local smokies, dont care for my s12 (i think they are jealous. LOL) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 i bought my AR15 from a LEO he even gave me 3 mags and 4 20 round boxes of .223 lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 "i bought my AR15 from a LEO he even gave me 3 mags and 4 20 round boxes of .223 lol" Probably came from the evidence room...I hear its a helluva profit maker. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 "i bought my AR15 from a LEO he even gave me 3 mags and 4 20 round boxes of .223 lol" Probably came from the evidence room...I hear its a helluva profit maker. nah it was his personal gun but then he got a full auto AR so he had no use for the one he sold me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I apologize if this has been said: I don't know how much the ATF values our opinions on this issue, but I was thinking that if the LEO's on here would send letters defending the S12 they may listen a little closer. Just a thought. hate to say this hill, but most LEO'S dont want you armed. it makes their job more dificult. just my As someone who works with LEO'S on a daily basis, I would have to say that assumption is wrong. I'm not saying ALL LEO'S think like the ones I work with but most I've talked to have no problems with law abiding citizens owning guns. Don't just don't assume all leos are the same. i too work with LEO on a daily basis. and while some may not have a problem with citizens owning guns, the ones i work around have the "what do you need that for?" attitude. Odd... Most LEO's I know wanna go shootin'.. Some have even given me cases of ammo! i wish i could meet more like that! most of our local smokies, dont care for my s12 (i think they are jealous. LOL) Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Xitesmai 1 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. no kidding. do they carry ammo? or just one bullet in the pocket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I was going to purchase a Saiga .223 or 7.62 next but I guess I'll opt for the 20ga instead and put the 2 rifles on hold for a few weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danklab 57 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Tactical "sniper" matches are not a "sporting purpose" either.. They have talked about banning "sniper rifles" too. Sniper rifles do have a sporting purpose because everyone I know who hunts big game uses a scoped rifle. They dont need a sporting purpose because the bore dia is smaller than .50 Another thing. HOW ABOUT TAKE YOUR DRUM/MAG DUMP & BUMPFIRE VIDEOS DOWN OFF YOUTUBE! That right there is the most intelligent sentence in this thread. All you self proclaimed bad-asses that put those stupid videos on youtube are doing more harm then you can imagine. If you think that the government doesn't view those videos, your sadly mistaken. Posting vids on youtube is stupid but wont effect what the ATF does. They enforce the rules, the bills passed by the house, senate, and signed by the president. These studys determine and define what is and isent a "sporting purrpose" What is and isent suitable for "sporting purposes" stop your paranoid delusions The fact remains that anyone can obtain information online.. and it's pretty easy to get results that show the irresponsible handling of firearms when doing a search. People have to vote in order to make laws, and they need to do research in order to decide how to vote. (Whether they actually do the research or not is another story) But, it doesn't help to have unwanted info/media on anything that we need to have people see in a positive light. A big concern of mine is that, if a crime were to ever be committed using an S-12.. You would see some weasely little shit of a lawyer playing these things for a jury saying that "This is what people do with these guns. They are not used for anything other than destruction... etc" Also.. as much as we whole heartedly believe in our right to bear arms of whatever sort we choose... There are many many people who do not believe that anyone deserves this right, and would be more than happy to get rid of guns all together. You always have to keep in mind the anti-gun special interest groups that influence lawmakers.. not just the lawmakers themselves. I can see some pansy ass, gun hater on a national news show right now showing clips from any of the thousands of bump-fire and mag dump videos online. There are a couple hundred for just the S-12 by my last check. I can see the commentary wrapping up with the host jumping to some broad conclusion, something like this, "So all it would take is for someone to point one of these at a crowd and fire it like this, and there could be dozens of people murdered in just a matter of seconds? Why would anyone possibly need to own something like this?". The guest would back up his agenda with some statement saying that there is no purpose for them other than killing, no sporting use... etc. They would drop all of the hot button keywords, such as assault weapon, high capacity "clip"... etc... and scare the shit out of every non gunner and the fence sitters. I do want to make a distinction between the R&R Targets videos/skilled competition shooting/demonstration videos, and the vast majority of the useless, crappy cellphone shot bumpfire vids online. We need more stuff like R&R, that demonstrate the sporting aspect of guns, and show a skillful (damn near artful) mastery of the weapon. There were a few really bad videos that I won't even post the link to, just because I feel it is harmful to circulate those... including one with a little kid (apx 7 to 10) blasting away with an S-12, and can't even control the damn thing. The recoil makes him step backwards and knocks him off balance, and the bystanders are lucky it didn't knock him on his ass and cause him to misfire one at the idiot filming from right next to him. Stuff like that, we DO NOT need online.. there is no point in it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 My main FFL is a LEO. The guy I use when he's not available is a Fire Fighter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. Edited February 14, 2011 by EWOKETEER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerasaurus 9 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 So, I hate to kick the hornet's nest, but I'm looking for opinions. Got my second Saiga coming and am wondering whether or not to convert it. On the one hand, converted guns are...well, superior in every way. On the other hand, if some kind of funky-ass ban/atf ruling/whatever hits, I could be stuck with two Saigas I can't take out of the house. So, thoughts? FYI, if I choose not to convert, I'll probably just pick up an OE config collapsing buttstock and pistol grip (which I can take back off if needs be). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Well I submitted my comments yesterday evening. They came in at a little over 2 pages single spaced. But in all I thought they were concise and to the point. I also sent brief messages about this study to my representative and one of my senators. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. I plead the Fifth!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. I plead the Fifth!! just saying. ive done it for 10 years now. it aint glamorous but its a job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. I plead the Fifth!! just saying. ive done it for 10 years now. it aint glamorous but its a job. Thamks for staying with it. I went over 22 on Jan 30 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. I plead the Fifth!! just saying. ive done it for 10 years now. it aint glamorous but its a job. Thanks for staying with it. I went over 22 on Jan 30 yeash! alright you win. p.s. federal? state? or county? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 RE: LEO nervous about armed citizens. Texas is a Castle State... we can legally carry on our own property and in our own vehicles without a permit and are justified with deadly force should it become necessary. I've asked 5 LEO's (police and sherrif) here in San Antonio how they feel about citizens carrying in their automobiles for SD. Every single one of them looked at me like I'm a bad guy. This may only be due to their personal experiences but there you have it. They all responded more positively when I asked if they'd feel better if I had a Cocealed Carry Permit stating, basically, that this assures the carrier is licensed and better trained. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's I work with (Corrections and Line) don't care for firearms and merely consider them a piece of their uniform. Just today, I was asked to do a transport because the Sgt. was fairly confident I had my firearm with me, whereas the officer he was first going to send didn't even bring it to work; and yes, I did. A number of LEO's have forgotten they were once one of the "unwashed" at one time. I dont mean to sound condescending...but where do the LEOs you know work...the town of Mayberry.... I couldnt imagine an LEO going out without a service weapon. Corrections Officers often forget they can be called to do transports outside of their facility. There are some inmates that REALLY DON'T WANT to be there and will do anything they can to leave (can't imagine why ) To the best of my knowledge, the line (street) deputies or officers aren't that foolish. its part of the daily routine, kinda hard to forget. hospital duty, airlifts, new intakes. its a daily dose of fun. let me tell ya. also there are alot of inmates that dont want to leave (free dental,medical, food, warm bed) its sad but some of these guys have never had it so good. I plead the Fifth!! just saying. ive done it for 10 years now. it aint glamorous but its a job. Thanks for staying with it. I went over 22 on Jan 30 yeash! alright you win. p.s. federal? state? or county? county Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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