MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Pretty basic poll. I see that some favor the surefire due to its 1 piece structure but other favor AGP because of the metal reinforcement. Vote away. Whats everyones opnion on the AGP vs the Surefire's ability on holding the shells within the mag better. As the Surefire doesnt have any metal to bite into the brass with, wouldnt the shells come out WAY easier? Edited February 1, 2011 by MrOneEyedBoh 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I like the AGPs better because of the smaller ribbing around the mag and that they are slightly shorter than the Surefires. I find the Surefires tend to hang up on my pouches' so I nipped the ribs off of them. Now they're a bit too slick, may have to but some grip tape on them or something. The AGPs on the other hand, are great from the gitgo. But both preform wonderfully in my S12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Is the lack of steel on the surefire's a bigdeal? I havent read any disaster stores on the surefires. It seems to be just hearsay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rd99fxdl 17 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I've got a few different brands of mags,I've had good luck with both of these except for the screws coming loose in my AGP. I havent had any trouble with the plastic feed lips either,so I like the surefires better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I have piles of AGPs and Surefires....never had a problem w/ either brand, shooting them through many different guns. My MDA drums run 100% too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akkalish 1 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Love them both the only mag i have ever had a problem with is PROMAG... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caal 9 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 You can cut down the surefires to different mag capacities thats a plus. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 The front lip broke off my Surefire, my AGP???? Not so much... You can guess how I voted, but just in case any of you are dense, I went AGP the whole way. No, I wasn't shooting magnum rounds at the time of breakage but I had ran quite a few magnum rounds through the mag and before anyone says that Surefire recommends to NOT run magnum rounds with their mag, well, then don't make the mag so it will take them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Yeah I may go surefire. I can get 8 tens and and md20 for 385 shipped. Not bad. Same as CSS but I can get it this week. Whats everyone's opnion on the AGP vs the Surefire's ability on holding the shells within the mag better. As the Surefire doesnt have any metal to bite into the brass with, wouldnt the shells come out WAY easier? Edited February 1, 2011 by MrOneEyedBoh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnInNH 0 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yeah I may go surefire. I can get 8 tens and and md20 for 385 shipped. Not bad. Same as CSS but I can get it this week. Whats everyone's opnion on the AGP vs the Surefire's ability on holding the shells within the mag better. As the Surefire doesnt have any metal to bite into the brass with, wouldnt the shells come out WAY easier? The SureFire holds the top round in better than the AGP mags do. If you take each mag and put in 5 rounds each and then flip the tip of the round up, the AGP will lift up very easily. The SureFire mags, not as easy.. I found the AGP's would loose a round easily when pulling them from my range bag and the round pop out then roll of the bench. That lead me to compair them to Surefire, OEM mags and the MD-20 Drum. That's when I discovered the AGPs were lacking in that one aspect. (the rest is just fine) So I took the metal clip from my MD-20 drum and noticed it had longer lips on it. So I ordered extras and fit them (it takes some filing) onto the AGP mags. Now with the MD-20 metal clips the first round is held in much better. I like the body of the AGP but for me.. I like the better retention of the SureFire and MD-20 drum.. SOooooooo I reworked all the AGP mags I had. Now they are BETTER then new. I hope AGP changes the design to replicate the OEM mag so the top round position and clips match exactly the OEM design. OEM has much better round retention. OEM mags need no improvement other than availability, cost, and round count. They feed flawlessly so don't try to improve it. They are the improvement LOL A few changes to the AGP and they would be as good as the factory mags. See the AGP mag thread for pics of my clips. I like the body shape of the AGP mags. I like the base design, and the lack of the ribs. They are very close to OEM. Just the clips have the "lip to shell contact" area incorrect. It's 2 things. 1) The clip lips are a little shorter, and 2) the back of the mag body pushes the top round a little farther forward than OEM (this I believe was done to "help" with feeding.) Combine the 2 and you have the poor top round retention issue. One evening with a file and a high speed rotary drill/grinder and you can rework your AGP mags with Mikes metal clips. OEM clips would work better but where can you get those?.. Mikes are slightly thicker and that causes a slight fitment issue, but they work a lot better than the AGP clips do. With the reworked metal clips you can have the best of both. I have not had any problems with the surefire mags, other than not being a fan of the ribs. .. I thought the plastic lips would quickly be a problem. But so far not... Who knows how they will hold up over time. High capacity mags being in jeopardy I want to make sure the ones I have LAST. My vote... REWORKED AGP mags. (well, maybe until the MD double stack mags come out!) Some people don't care and find the loose top round retention to not be an issue. I don't like dropping live ammo on the ground so I fixed mine. I did save the AGP spring clips incase I felt the need to change them back. So far, I have no need to change back and best of all.... no more rounds flipping out. :-) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for the long reply. I think I seen a post or a thread about this from you, or maybe someone else. Whats the price on MD arms lips? What did you file down? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnInNH 0 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the long reply. I think I seen a post or a thread about this from you, or maybe someone else. Whats the price on MD arms lips? What did you file down? I think MD wanted $5 each.. I had to lower the back of the clip so the catch in the back would fit in the groove. The back of the clips is a little wider on the MD clips. Place on hard surface.. Use a large BASTARD metal file.. Then behind the lips lower the top part that fits under the protrusion that the mag rel clips under. It does not take a lot.remove only about 1-2 match book cover thicknesses. Then you may need to remove a little material in front of the lips to get them to seat forward enough to engage the nubs into the holes of the clips. I describe it a little in the post with the pictures. The springs are thicker so I also broke the edges with a 45deg as a precaution, a touch of the drumel as the sharp edge could catch while inserting the mags. Also a *slight* bend of the tips with the holes was added in them helped to get them to clip over the nubs. Just enough to get the holes flat on the mags. Edited February 11, 2011 by JohnInNH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 The front lip broke off my Surefire, my AGP???? Not so much... You can guess how I voted, but just in case any of you are dense, I went AGP the whole way. No, I wasn't shooting magnum rounds at the time of breakage but I had ran quite a few magnum rounds through the mag and before anyone says that Surefire recommends to NOT run magnum rounds with their mag, well, then don't make the mag so it will take them... I went with tuned AGP's. I agree with John about AGP's latest feedlips. They didn't used to be that way. AGP's older runs had longer feedlips. I took the lips off of a promag stick & put them on an AGP & it solved the issue. Surefire proved to be the most dependable in their 8 round configuration. Surefire's followers are a touch small for the mag body. That could be improved upon. The fact that Surefire's lips are plastic hasn't hurt their performance but instead insured consistency between runs. AGPs need to be sanded on the insides being as the flash inside can cause hiccups if not removed well. Also, on some mags, the screws must be snugged then backed off about 1/3 rotation to avoid any shell drag from my experience. As for front tabs breaking off, there are different runs of each mag. They first came out with front tabs like the Russian 8, but lacking steel reinforcement in the tabs. Mike D. found that changing the shape of the front tab would distribute force to much stronger areas of the mag body & this issue stopped for all but the most rare insurance's. Here's the differing shapes. I choose TUNED AGP-10's primarily for their reliability with 3" loads. Surefire however, is generally the go-to mag for many of the race gun guys with lighter loads... The MD-20 still seems to be the most reliable US made mag out of the box. Do keep in mind... Your gun's not quite complete until you get a couple Russian 8s 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks for that reply. I went with AGP 10rd'ers. I may go with with some 8rd'ers later one. And deff no Russian 8rd'ers haha too expensive Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 i like both but the Sure fire mags look feel a higher quality? but this is a ford vs chevy type quest. had to pick i pick SGMT/MDARMS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 my promag 10 rounder wasnt running right if it had more then 8 rounds in it. it would FTF the first two rounds but the Promag Drum worked 100% Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thepatriot 0 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 My AGPs run great.I have never used surefire but when I get an R&R Saiga I guess I will be using them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scottishbruceclan 0 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Just picked up my first ten round mag by surefire at CSS. First thing I noticed is that it doesn't have metal lips, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. It is much smoother to load than my stock 5rd and so far has loaded flawlessly. I'm very very happy with my purchase. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I like my Russian 8 round mags best they are my go to home defense magazine. They are pricy but if it is hitting the fan I want my Russian 8s first. Then my AGPs I've bought them site unseen form AGP and with just a little sanding they turned out to be great! I have 10 of them. Also have Surefire they also work just fin but the AGPs are a better grade of plastic and just look better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 The front lip broke off my Surefire, my AGP???? Not so much... You can guess how I voted, but just in case any of you are dense, I went AGP the whole way. No, I wasn't shooting magnum rounds at the time of breakage but I had ran quite a few magnum rounds through the mag and before anyone says that Surefire recommends to NOT run magnum rounds with their mag, well, then don't make the mag so it will take them... I went with tuned AGP's. I agree with John about AGP's latest feedlips. They didn't used to be that way. AGP's older runs had longer feedlips. I took the lips off of a promag stick & put them on an AGP & it solved the issue. Surefire proved to be the most dependable in their 8 round configuration. Surefire's followers are a touch small for the mag body. That could be improved upon. The fact that Surefire's lips are plastic hasn't hurt their performance but instead insured consistency between runs. AGPs need to be sanded on the insides being as the flash inside can cause hiccups if not removed well. Also, on some mags, the screws must be snugged then backed off about 1/3 rotation to avoid any shell drag from my experience. As for front tabs breaking off, there are different runs of each mag. They first came out with front tabs like the Russian 8, but lacking steel reinforcement in the tabs. Mike D. found that changing the shape of the front tab would distribute force to much stronger areas of the mag body & this issue stopped for all but the most rare insurance's. Here's the differing shapes. I choose TUNED AGP-10's primarily for their reliability with 3" loads. Surefire however, is generally the go-to mag for many of the race gun guys with lighter loads... The MD-20 still seems to be the most reliable US made mag out of the box. Do keep in mind... Your gun's not quite complete until you get a couple Russian 8s I will NEVER pay more than $50 for a stick mag, so no Russian 8's for me when I can get three or four ten round stick mags for the price of one Russian 8... My Surefire was a Gen 2 by your pic... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P lang 51 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 The front lip broke off my Surefire, my AGP???? Not so much... You can guess how I voted, but just in case any of you are dense, I went AGP the whole way. No, I wasn't shooting magnum rounds at the time of breakage but I had ran quite a few magnum rounds through the mag and before anyone says that Surefire recommends to NOT run magnum rounds with their mag, well, then don't make the mag so it will take them... when i started buying mags , i hadnt even explored this site at all , i just saw surefire, made in usa and went with that. ive never had many problems with my 8,s my 12,s seem to have more ftf,s for some reason , i think in the near future i may toy with shimming the follower . however last weekend i went slug crazy , 120 rounds or so. probly 4 times i had my surefire fall out on me. i had just attributed it to my extended mag realease thinking i must be bumping it . the mags appear to be in good shape no visable damage anywhere , and they fit snugly enough . i couldnt beat it out when i wamped on it . i planned on swaping back to the factory mag realease this weekend thinking that should fix it for sure . is there something i missed , 'surefire is not recomended for magnum loads' is this what there talking about ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrBoomstick 16 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 After conversion my Saiga doesn't seem to have any issues with surefire, promag or agp sticks. (Knock on wood) I prefer the glass filled nylon of the agp as if feeds shells better when loading, and the surefires remind me of a cheap plastic toy, and my md arms drums well their just flawless period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I will NEVER pay more than $50 for a stick mag, so no Russian 8's for me when I can get three or four ten round stick mags for the price of one Russian 8... My Surefire was a Gen 2 by your pic... Well, I guess it all depends on what you have your gun for. If it's for actual defense, keep Russian mags in it. Period. Even if it's your 5 round. Last thing you want is to clip a wall or fall with an unreinforced stick mag & have the front tab break off. The Russian mags are the ONLY stick mags with steel reinforcement. They're the only Milspec mags for the guns. I honestly don't understand why people will pay out the ass for stocks, rails & hand-guards to "look cool", yet go as cheap as possible on the mags which are one of the most vital parts of the guns. But, to each his own... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rd99fxdl 17 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 After conversion my Saiga doesn't seem to have any issues with surefire, promag or agp sticks. (Knock on wood) I prefer the glass filled nylon of the agp as if feeds shells better when loading, and the surefires remind me of a cheap plastic toy, and my md arms drums well their just flawless period. Actually,all the surefires have 33% glass in their nylon. I still stick by their mags after these few years,and I've tried almost all the mags out just for kicks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I will NEVER pay more than $50 for a stick mag, so no Russian 8's for me when I can get three or four ten round stick mags for the price of one Russian 8... My Surefire was a Gen 2 by your pic... Well, I guess it all depends on what you have your gun for. If it's for actual defense, keep Russian mags in it. Period. Even if it's your 5 round. Last thing you want is to clip a wall or fall with an unreinforced stick mag & have the front tab break off. The Russian mags are the ONLY stick mags with steel reinforcement. They're the only Milspec mags for the guns. I honestly don't understand why people will pay out the ass for stocks, rails & hand-guards to "look cool", yet go as cheap as possible on the mags which are one of the most vital parts of the guns. But, to each his own... Until I have a failure with my MD drum or AGP... Duly noted... Edited April 30, 2011 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dgyver 13 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I started with several 10 & 12 SGM's. Had problems with pinched lips and rocking followers, both issues have been fixed. I use them with a JTE magwell. May change to an R&R magwell later... Bought some AGP Gen 2. They would not fit in my gun or 4 others. They are at least .010" too wide to fit, not including any installing clearance. They have been returned, not wanting to grind on new mags or my receiver any more to make them fit. I do like their body and feel better, similar to the factory mag. Their design using screws will not work with R&R's mag well. ...maybe I should have got Russian mags instead... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrBoomstick 16 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 After conversion my Saiga doesn't seem to have any issues with surefire, promag or agp sticks. (Knock on wood) I prefer the glass filled nylon of the agp as if feeds shells better when loading, and the surefires remind me of a cheap plastic toy, and my md arms drums well their just flawless period. Actually,all the surefires have 33% glass in their nylon. I still stick by their mags after these few years,and I've tried almost all the mags out just for kicks. I need to run the two i have un modded and see how they fare in my gun. I had a jt magwell on the gun but didn't like it i thought it was a straight insertion not a rock and lock with fancy guide. I realy don't thing the gun will have an issue with them though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FL Thunder Stick 21 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 What about the 12-round Surefire mags? FTS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I've read that the Promag Gen 2s work well. Although I am still very reluctant... For the time being I'll stick with my OEM 8s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RABIDFOX50 6 Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 You can cut down the surefires to different mag capacities thats a plus. AGP now sells floor plates to allow you to do the exact same thing. That is you have to buy the floor plates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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