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My Saiga 12 LRBHO Report


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#1 maxim7711

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 10:28 PM

Got a LRBHO S12, and I thought you guys might like to know this.
As discussed before, the LRBHO mags have a freakishly high follower and a extra area milled out at the rear, compared to regular mags/drums. The when the bolt is retracted it locks open, and when the mag is removed, the action stays open. The area at the rear of the tower that is removed looks like it was done with a dull hand file after a vodka lunch.
Works great with these specialized mags.
The older Saiga 5 rounders from a non-LRBH S12 inserted easily and locked into place. They function, but of course will not hold the bolt back/activate the LRBHO.
However and Sadly, my new Gen 2 AGP mags, AND new MD Arms drums will not lock into place at all, as far as I can tell because the LRBHO device interferes with the conventional rear tower. I expect that with a file one could remove some material on the mag/drum like on the new LRBHO mags, and they would lock into place. Without the high follower I dont think it will lock it open, of course.
Personally, I kind of like the purity of my non-LRBHO model, its got less parts to break/malfunction, and I dont have to carve up my precious overpriced feeding devices to accommodate it.
I love this board, thanks all for the great info.
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#2 TO THE FLOOR

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 10:35 PM

Thanks for the report. Just to compare notes I have (or had and it slipped through my fingers) the Cadiz LRBHO and with that you have to file a round half moon in the back of the magazines.
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#3 EL Uno

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:07 PM

Wow so i just ordered the BHO Saiga and cant use a drum mag. BUM-MER!

#4 TO THE FLOOR

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:28 AM

my fucking camera and the cut and paste are pissing me off
"Democracy is two wolfs and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 04:14 AM

Just a few file strokes...and I got a little sloppy doing 12 of these.

Posted Image

Posted Image
"Democracy is two wolfs and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

#6 Shandlanos

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 05:21 AM

Who the heck has these LRBHO Saiga-12s?
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#7 Mayor Al

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 05:47 AM

I was feling sort of bad about not having the feature on my S-12, but after reading this I guess I am better off...and I am only dealing with half a dozen factory-5's and a couple of 10 rounders. However before thinking of a second Saiga Shotgun, I'll keep in mind the lack of compatability between models.

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#8 lokmeup

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 05:47 AM

k-var

Edited by lokmeup, 12 February 2011 - 05:48 AM.


#9 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 08:02 AM

With 10 drums and nearly 40- 2 and 5 round mags, it looks like the LRBHO is off of my list because I am not starting over on mags. I think I'll just stick with the closed bolt loading mod. It works with all of my mags.

Prodigy....

 

 

 

 


#10 Sasha

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:22 AM

I think all is not lost, with breech bolt lock, time to recharge is much less, so perhaps 20 cartridge drum is not needed so much? To change 10 cartridge sticks will be swift indeed. I presume K-var will surely offer followers as soon as possible. Salute.
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#11 Raleigh Saiga

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:41 AM

k-var


Wow. Price is now $60 more than just a few days ago. Not surprising with their popularity.

#12 -Shooter-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:12 AM

k-var


Damn, $680??

The price and the lack of mag/drum interchangeability just moved this S12 down another notch in my Interest-o-Meter. Right down to "Meh".

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#13 pedal2alloy

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 02:02 PM

I was feling sort of bad about not having the feature on my S-12, but after reading this I guess I am better off...and I am only dealing with half a dozen factory-5's and a couple of 10 rounders. However before thinking of a second Saiga Shotgun, I'll keep in mind the lack of compatability between models.


You can shoot both the new and old gun with new or old mags. That's pretty good, really.

Then to get the LRBHO functionality requires only some minor mods.

Sounds like a winner to me...
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#14 Heath_h49008

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 05:48 PM

Take your old mags, clearance the back of the mag body to clear the LRBHO tab.

Take a 1/2" wide x 2 1/2" long strip of 16ga steel and bend it 90 degrees, 3/4" from one end.

Use 3M double sided mounting tape and stick that on your old follower, as far back as you can, reassemble the mag.

Get your dremel out and trim/round the tab so it doesn't hang as the follower goes up and down, and insert test fit it in the gun.

Put one (dummy) round in the mag.... mark the tab if it pokes up and can get hit by the bolt on the last round. Trim until it won't.

Now see if the tab you just added will hit the LRBHO and activate it, with the old mag.


I find that Promags have the widest channel for the shell rim and don't bind at all with the tab shifting the bottom round forward a smidge... YMMV


See if that works for you.
"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#15 mellow

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:41 AM

thanks for the report, now i dont know whether to cancel my LRBHO saiga that Kvar says will ship in 10 days. Already have a new reg saiga. Leaning to cancel based on this report that existing reg saiga aftermarket mags wont function at all in the new BHO model.

#16 Mike1234567

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:13 AM

Take your old mags, clearance the back of the mag body to clear the LRBHO tab.

Take a 1/2" wide x 2 1/2" long strip of 16ga steel and bend it 90 degrees, 3/4" from one end.

Use 3M double sided mounting tape and stick that on your old follower, as far back as you can, reassemble the mag.

Get your dremel out and trim/round the tab so it doesn't hang as the follower goes up and down, and insert test fit it in the gun.

Put one (dummy) round in the mag.... mark the tab if it pokes up and can get hit by the bolt on the last round. Trim until it won't.

Now see if the tab you just added will hit the LRBHO and activate it, with the old mag.


I find that Promags have the widest channel for the shell rim and don't bind at all with the tab shifting the bottom round forward a smidge... YMMV


See if that works for you.


Sounds simple enough if I'm understanding you correctly. But isn't it necessary to make the "L" tab more permanent on the follower, i.e. JB Weld and small recessed flat-head screws? Have you tried this mag mod and does it really work every time? Any chance for some pics?

#17 Bridis

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:32 AM

Take your old mags, clearance the back of the mag body to clear the LRBHO tab.

Take a 1/2" wide x 2 1/2" long strip of 16ga steel and bend it 90 degrees, 3/4" from one end.

Use 3M double sided mounting tape and stick that on your old follower, as far back as you can, reassemble the mag.

Get your dremel out and trim/round the tab so it doesn't hang as the follower goes up and down, and insert test fit it in the gun.

Put one (dummy) round in the mag.... mark the tab if it pokes up and can get hit by the bolt on the last round. Trim until it won't.

Now see if the tab you just added will hit the LRBHO and activate it, with the old mag.


I find that Promags have the widest channel for the shell rim and don't bind at all with the tab shifting the bottom round forward a smidge... YMMV


See if that works for you.



Can you make a video?

#18 Shadoh

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:58 PM

Wouldnt work on the drums.

#19 Raleigh Saiga

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 03:23 PM

Wouldnt work on the drums.


But you might be able to relief enough material to at least allow the 109BHO to accept the drums, even if you can't get them to activate the LRBHO. Still just a thought until somebody takes a look at it. My 109BHO is still stuck in AZ due to "extreme weather," whatever that means.
:(

This will certainly be one of the first things I try to get working.

#20 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:41 PM

Sounds simple enough if I'm understanding you correctly. But isn't it necessary to make the "L" tab more permanent on the follower, i.e. JB Weld and small recessed flat-head screws? Have you tried this mag mod and does it really work every time? Any chance for some pics?



No problem, just don't bust me too hard on my fit and finish.

This may seem hard to believe, but even when the tab missed the hold open, the 3M doublesided tape was strong enough to stop the bolt on the tab itself. At least I know it's just empty and the gun hasn't shit the bed.


Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by Heath_h49008, 13 February 2011 - 05:02 PM.

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"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#21 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:43 PM

Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by Heath_h49008, 13 February 2011 - 04:44 PM.

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"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#22 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:09 PM

I need to put the standard disclaimers here... this is an example of what MIGHT work for you. I do not consider it safe, nor will I be held liable if anyone tries this tab trick and spends $5 and they find a way to blow themselves or others up in the process.


That being said, it has NOT been tried on the new Russian LRBHO guns. It was used in another prototype.
"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#23 Mike1234567

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 06:01 PM


Sounds simple enough if I'm understanding you correctly. But isn't it necessary to make the "L" tab more permanent on the follower, i.e. JB Weld and small recessed flat-head screws? Have you tried this mag mod and does it really work every time? Any chance for some pics?

No problem, just don't bust me too hard on my fit and finish.

This may seem hard to believe, but even when the tab missed the hold open, the 3M doublesided tape was strong enough to stop the bolt on the tab itself. At least I know it's just empty and the gun hasn't shit the bed.


Thank you, Heath. Wow... that is indeed a simple straightforward solution. And what I REALLY love about it is it's ultra-cheap... that's my kind of fix. You've had no issues with it ever? Oh... and I don't care what it looks like as long as it works!! What brand/model prototype LRBHO are you using?

Edited by Mike1234567, 13 February 2011 - 06:03 PM.


#24 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:29 PM

Thank you, Heath. Wow... that is indeed a simple straightforward solution. And what I REALLY love about it is it's ultra-cheap... that's my kind of fix. You've had no issues with it ever? Oh... and I don't care what it looks like as long as it works!! What brand/model prototype LRBHO are you using?



My own version of the Russian I fabricated. No, the LRBHO isn't a simple design, but before the Russian mags were available, it was the only way other than the Warfield tab method, or Cadiz Ruger 10-22 shell contact design that I found would work. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

With the new mags it is only useful to update old stick-mags. This trick won't work on the drums. They require a spring loaded fake shell, but I haven't run very far with the design for that.

Edited by Heath_h49008, 13 February 2011 - 07:37 PM.

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"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#25 goober

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:57 PM

Guess I'll be happy to just rerack mine.. It's not like I'm in combat I guess... Shame nothing is interchangeable...
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#26 mellow

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:48 PM

has anyone determined if and when these new bho mags for the bho model are going to be available?

#27 Heath_h49008

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:48 PM

Good question. Those mags make all of this unnecessary. It does take a bit of tuning to get them to work.
"Μολὼν λαβέ"... that's Greek for "When you kick in my door, I'll say I lost them", right?

#28 Alwaystryin

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:28 PM

Thanks for the heads up.

I canceled my order. You saved me a ton of aggravation.

#29 mellow

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:29 PM

Thanks for the heads up.

I canceled my order. You saved me a ton of aggravation.


i switched my order from the bho to the saiga 12 with rpk handguards, saved me a ton of trouble it would appear

#30 WhiskeyMinion

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:03 PM

i switched my order from the bho to the saiga 12 with rpk handguards, saved me a ton of trouble it would appear



I did the exact same thing a week ago when they "found" more non BHO models. Just came in today!

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