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I Received ATF Approval to Build a Draco Bull Pup Pistol


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Hurry up and get your type 07 ffl with a 02 SOT. With that you don't need permission before you build nfa firearms or pay over priced tax stamps. You can build them all day long, then fax in the paperwork at the end of the day.

 

 

How does one go about getting one of these licenses? I'd like to get one...

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SOT is very inexpensive as long as you don't deal in DD's. The cost of the FFL is cheap aswell. It's just filling out all the paperwork and applications to get started aswell as local codes that can be difficult to comply with. You must run your ffl as a business, not to advance your hobby. There is a lot of good info online. If you want a link to a good ffl startup site then let me know.. I'm in the process of getting mine.

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Here is a revised Photoshop mock up of the concept

 

MockUp001.jpg

 

 

Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To"....

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Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To"....

 

He wanted to make sure it wasn't considered a bullpup, or a device that could be fired from the shoulder....in short clarification.

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Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To"....

 

He wanted to make sure it wasn't considered a bullpup, or a device that could be fired from the shoulder....in short clarification.

 

 

Wouldn't he also have wanted clarification on the grip being forward of the receiver?

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From the "let's see if I can make it work"/engineering viewpoint I applaud the effort.

 

 

From the praticality/usefulness viewpoint I'm leaning towards "why?"

 

 

It's all about balance

 

I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it.

 

Try that with a Draco

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It's all about balance

 

I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it.

 

Try that with a Draco

 

 

Well, okay.

 

But that isn't what I was getting at......

 

 

 

 

 

Not crapping in your thread mind you, it's just not my cup of tea.

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From the "let's see if I can make it work"/engineering viewpoint I applaud the effort.

 

 

From the praticality/usefulness viewpoint I'm leaning towards "why?"

 

 

It's all about balance

 

I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it.

 

Try that with a Draco

 

It still looks like it's going to be heavy in the rear, especially with a fully loaded mag. I just don't see where you are going to have really good control of this thing. Perhaps it will evolve beyond what I'm envisioning.

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  • 4 months later...

You guys are missing something here that is rather important.

What the OP wanted was clarification that ATF wouldn't consider this mod an SBR. If he had planned to install some sort of buttplate or pad to the rear end, that's exactly what it would be, a bullpup SBR.

He got essentially the same thing, but without the SBR fees/hassles. You can shoot it from the shoulder, sort of. It won't be real comfortable, but doable for close range. Or, the center of the chest thing can be done with it. Plus, as he mentioned, it's balance is vastly improved for one-handed shooting.

It's kinda like the AR pistols. It's perfectly legal to have them with an M4 length buffer tube, so long as it doesn't have the lug along the bottom to work with a stock. It's even legal to have a foam pad tube on the buffer. Folks have these and tuck them in the armpit area and get good shots out to about 100yds or so with practice. Again, it's like an SBR, but without the fees/hassles.

There's an important section in the definition of both a rifle and an SBR. That is that they are designed to be fired from the shoulder. This means a buttstock, or a piece on the rear end that is designed to fit to the shoulder to steady the firing of the weapon.

His build doesn't have that, only a plain receiver end.

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Think subguns on shoulder slings. The Mexican cartel guy(Danny Trejo?) from the movie "Predators" comes to mind. In BD's case, the sling can help hold the rear of the reciever up as you push against the PG. I still like the idea of the forearm rest as well.

 

Now, I'd like to see a matched set. One regular, one for left hand ejection. Hmmmm :angel:

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I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much.

 

1259864610594.jpg

 

Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle.

Edited by SOPMOD
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I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much.

 

1259864610594.jpg

 

Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle.

 

Wow, those are crazy looking. What kind of mags are those?

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I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much.

 

1259864610594.jpg

 

Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle.

 

Wow, those are crazy looking. What kind of mags are those?

 

9x39 meant for hard hitting subsonic loads with a suppressor.

picture%5C35255123235.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

I would be happy with a Groza in ANY caliber but I would much rather have a Groza in EVERY caliber including 12ga.

 

I keep Cheking on Boba Debt and Pookie to see when they finally manage to turn their bullpup obsessions into a set of Groza Blueprints.

Edited by SOPMOD
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Boba, I applaud your out of the box thinking. Why would this be so much different than a Kel-Tec PLR-16? Just the ability to shoot it one handed? My PLR's almost gaurentee I have to use both hands, but you can use a sling on your shoulder and use it as a "reverse" buttstock, by pushing back against it. I haven't shot it yet with the c mag, but the PLR with a BETA C mag (100 rd) would be heavy for one hand unless you were the Arnold. But for both hands, it is controllable and a blast to shoot. I don't know anything about ballistics. It seems you would almost need a sling on the rear to tighten it up enough to shoot one handed. I may be wrong, as I normally am. The extra weight on the front will definately help recoil. I have some custom CNC aluminum grips on the front of my PLR's that tame that down to nothing. (still takes two hands to hold it steady, though) Cool concept.

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That plastic shroud on the receiver looks like a buttstock. Pretty sure the ATF would see it that way too. Pretty cool looking kit though.

 

Check out the website, they got a good-to-go from the ATF. Here is the quote from their page.

"Your new design eliminates the forward handgrip and thus does not facilitate two handed firing as your initial design did. Therefore FTB finds that an AK pistol mounted in your redesigned stock is intended to be fired with one hand and thus constitutes a "pistol" as defined in the Gun Control Act. Accordingly an AK pistol mounted in your newly designed stock would not meet the definition of an "AOW" as noted above and thus would not be regulated under the provisions of the NFA in any way."

Edited by chaseface
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That plastic shroud on the receiver looks like a buttstock. Pretty sure the ATF would see it that way too. Pretty cool looking kit though.

 

Check out the website, they got a good-to-go from the ATF. Here is the quote from their page.

"Your new design eliminates the forward handgrip and thus does not facilitate two handed firing as your initial design did. Therefore FTB finds that an AK pistol mounted in your redesigned stock is intended to be fired with one hand and thus constitutes a "pistol" as defined in the Gun Control Act. Accordingly an AK pistol mounted in your newly designed stock would not meet the definition of an "AOW" as noted above and thus would not be regulated under the provisions of the NFA in any way."

Damn, that's surprising as I definitely can see you could shoulder that thing. Pretty neat.

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