PinkFloyd 63 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hurry up and get your type 07 ffl with a 02 SOT. With that you don't need permission before you build nfa firearms or pay over priced tax stamps. You can build them all day long, then fax in the paperwork at the end of the day. How does one go about getting one of these licenses? I'd like to get one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Pay a few grand for special occupation tax...pay a few more for ffl...paperwork...i am just pulling this out of my ass, but it is a good start to begin looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
presto_z 125 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 SOT is very inexpensive as long as you don't deal in DD's. The cost of the FFL is cheap aswell. It's just filling out all the paperwork and applications to get started aswell as local codes that can be difficult to comply with. You must run your ffl as a business, not to advance your hobby. There is a lot of good info online. If you want a link to a good ffl startup site then let me know.. I'm in the process of getting mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 skip that and set up a trust if you only want to own and not build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
308SAIGA 55 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Here is a revised Photoshop mock up of the concept Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To".... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To".... He wanted to make sure it wasn't considered a bullpup, or a device that could be fired from the shoulder....in short clarification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 From the "let's see if I can make it work"/engineering viewpoint I applaud the effort. From the praticality/usefulness viewpoint I'm leaning towards "why?" 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fumes 84 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Why did you have to get permission to do this? It is a pistol and you are turning it into a pistol. No authorization needed, unless you just wanted a clarification about the law, then I could understand... Please post when she is finished, and what would really be cool is you take photos along the way for a "How To".... He wanted to make sure it wasn't considered a bullpup, or a device that could be fired from the shoulder....in short clarification. Wouldn't he also have wanted clarification on the grip being forward of the receiver? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Debt 350 Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 From the "let's see if I can make it work"/engineering viewpoint I applaud the effort. From the praticality/usefulness viewpoint I'm leaning towards "why?" It's all about balance I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it. Try that with a Draco 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It's all about balance I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it. Try that with a Draco Well, okay. But that isn't what I was getting at...... Not crapping in your thread mind you, it's just not my cup of tea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 From the "let's see if I can make it work"/engineering viewpoint I applaud the effort. From the praticality/usefulness viewpoint I'm leaning towards "why?" It's all about balance I can hold one of my 10 pound bull pup rifles with one hand and shoot it. Try that with a Draco It still looks like it's going to be heavy in the rear, especially with a fully loaded mag. I just don't see where you are going to have really good control of this thing. Perhaps it will evolve beyond what I'm envisioning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timdp 1 Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 First of all much thanks to Boba Debt for taking the initiative to contact the ATF and get legal clarification on adding the bullpup kit to a Draco pistol. My project is here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68531-draco-bullpup-progress/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 You guys are missing something here that is rather important. What the OP wanted was clarification that ATF wouldn't consider this mod an SBR. If he had planned to install some sort of buttplate or pad to the rear end, that's exactly what it would be, a bullpup SBR. He got essentially the same thing, but without the SBR fees/hassles. You can shoot it from the shoulder, sort of. It won't be real comfortable, but doable for close range. Or, the center of the chest thing can be done with it. Plus, as he mentioned, it's balance is vastly improved for one-handed shooting. It's kinda like the AR pistols. It's perfectly legal to have them with an M4 length buffer tube, so long as it doesn't have the lug along the bottom to work with a stock. It's even legal to have a foam pad tube on the buffer. Folks have these and tuck them in the armpit area and get good shots out to about 100yds or so with practice. Again, it's like an SBR, but without the fees/hassles. There's an important section in the definition of both a rifle and an SBR. That is that they are designed to be fired from the shoulder. This means a buttstock, or a piece on the rear end that is designed to fit to the shoulder to steady the firing of the weapon. His build doesn't have that, only a plain receiver end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Think subguns on shoulder slings. The Mexican cartel guy(Danny Trejo?) from the movie "Predators" comes to mind. In BD's case, the sling can help hold the rear of the reciever up as you push against the PG. I still like the idea of the forearm rest as well. Now, I'd like to see a matched set. One regular, one for left hand ejection. Hmmmm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much. Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle. Edited July 6, 2011 by SOPMOD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much. Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle. Wow, those are crazy looking. What kind of mags are those? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) I wish there was a bullpup kit with hard mechanical linkage instead of cable or wire. I would like to have an OC-14/OTs-14 Groza replica very much. Imagine the one on the bottom as a pistol without the buttpad.That would be a handy little piece in a vehicle. Wow, those are crazy looking. What kind of mags are those? 9x39 meant for hard hitting subsonic loads with a suppressor. I would be happy with a Groza in ANY caliber but I would much rather have a Groza in EVERY caliber including 12ga. I keep Cheking on Boba Debt and Pookie to see when they finally manage to turn their bullpup obsessions into a set of Groza Blueprints. Edited July 6, 2011 by SOPMOD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BronCobraJet 80 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Boba, I applaud your out of the box thinking. Why would this be so much different than a Kel-Tec PLR-16? Just the ability to shoot it one handed? My PLR's almost gaurentee I have to use both hands, but you can use a sling on your shoulder and use it as a "reverse" buttstock, by pushing back against it. I haven't shot it yet with the c mag, but the PLR with a BETA C mag (100 rd) would be heavy for one hand unless you were the Arnold. But for both hands, it is controllable and a blast to shoot. I don't know anything about ballistics. It seems you would almost need a sling on the rear to tighten it up enough to shoot one handed. I may be wrong, as I normally am. The extra weight on the front will definately help recoil. I have some custom CNC aluminum grips on the front of my PLR's that tame that down to nothing. (still takes two hands to hold it steady, though) Cool concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Here is a revised Photoshop mock up of the concept If you used a kit like this it would be easier to shoulder Here is a picture of the rear Edited July 8, 2011 by chaseface Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BronCobraJet 80 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 OK qiut teasing. Who makes it, Where can I get it> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 OK qiut teasing. Who makes it, Where can I get it> Which one are you referring to? If your talking about the one I posted then its at the cbrps website. They have a Saiga one that looks pretty cool too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 That plastic shroud on the receiver looks like a buttstock. Pretty sure the ATF would see it that way too. Pretty cool looking kit though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) That plastic shroud on the receiver looks like a buttstock. Pretty sure the ATF would see it that way too. Pretty cool looking kit though. Check out the website, they got a good-to-go from the ATF. Here is the quote from their page. "Your new design eliminates the forward handgrip and thus does not facilitate two handed firing as your initial design did. Therefore FTB finds that an AK pistol mounted in your redesigned stock is intended to be fired with one hand and thus constitutes a "pistol" as defined in the Gun Control Act. Accordingly an AK pistol mounted in your newly designed stock would not meet the definition of an "AOW" as noted above and thus would not be regulated under the provisions of the NFA in any way." Edited July 8, 2011 by chaseface Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 That plastic shroud on the receiver looks like a buttstock. Pretty sure the ATF would see it that way too. Pretty cool looking kit though. Check out the website, they got a good-to-go from the ATF. Here is the quote from their page. "Your new design eliminates the forward handgrip and thus does not facilitate two handed firing as your initial design did. Therefore FTB finds that an AK pistol mounted in your redesigned stock is intended to be fired with one hand and thus constitutes a "pistol" as defined in the Gun Control Act. Accordingly an AK pistol mounted in your newly designed stock would not meet the definition of an "AOW" as noted above and thus would not be regulated under the provisions of the NFA in any way." Damn, that's surprising as I definitely can see you could shoulder that thing. Pretty neat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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