josey88 21 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I know that the106fr Arsenals are 1 to 7 twist , but I would like to know if the twist is the same on the .223 Saigas . Anybody knows for sure ?... Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 They are Just over 1 in 9 from the factory rep I spoke with, use the search option it has been heavily discussed...oh and yes you can shoot 5.56 from your 223... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theplastik 67 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) I know that the106fr Arsenals are 1 to 7 twist , but I would like to know if the twist is the same on the .223 Saigas . Anybody knows for sure ?... Thanks 1 in 9 Twist http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=25207 Yes, I agree, the search function on this forum is sub-par. But typing in "Saiga 223 barrel twist" (in Google) got me an immediate result. Edited March 2, 2011 by Plastik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Well, that is a bummer , because I have 2000 rds of 75 gr . I also have another 2500 rds of 62 gr , so I guess I can use the 62 grs with the Saiga and the 75 grs with my AR-15 which is 1 to 7 twist . BTW... what happens if I shoot the 75 grs ? will I damage the rifle or lose all accuracy ? thanks Edited March 2, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 You will not damage the rifle and their is a slight chance your rifle may like them better...mine devours the 62gr hpbt brown bears...try them out and see if they stabalize from your barrell...I have seen much odder things from these rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lashlarue 1 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 At close range a 75gr keyholing just makes a bigger hole and is more likely stop the zombies. I love their glow in the dark blood. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) I'm FAR from an expert but, from all I've READ, it's generally better to have a little too much twist than not enough!! Edited March 3, 2011 by Mike1234567 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I'm FAR from an expert but, from all I've READ, it's generally better to have a little too much twist than not enough!! You are correct. However; realize that 1:7 is MORE twist than 1:9, 1:10, or 1:12. It means, that the twist, "The rifling groove gut" goes one complete revolution of the barrel, every 7 inches; 9 inches; 10 inches; 12 inches;. So yes, it is better to have TOO MUCH TWIST. Hence; a 1:7 is BETTER than a 1:12. Having said that; a 1:7 can have some issues with very light bullets such as 40 grain. Just like 1:9 or 1:10 can have issues with heavy bullets like 75-80 grain bullets. On a side note: If you look hard at buying ammo; especially retail; you'll find that 55 grain and 62 grain are the most available. A 1:9 twist is perfect for these. Those who really want/need the 1:7 twist are usually spending a lot or reloading for the 75+/- grain bullets that they're using for match/tournament/competition shooting. I.e. If you're not shooting competition type, the 1:7 really isn't that necessary. Unless of course you're deer hunting with it. But I won't address that issue, because I've hunted most states in the country, and I would never use a .223/5.56 against a deer. Deer aren't where you practice being a precise marksman. And unless you're a precise marksman, you highly risk simply wounding the deer and it running off to die a slow death later. Yes, I've seen way too many of these. Luckily here, we don't allow .223 for deer. But for everyone else; if you're not competing, then you can save money by having a 1:9 twist barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) ^^^ Understood ^^^ 1:9.44 is fine for me in .223. There are only 2 calibers for which I really want a tighter twist for use with SS ammo with longer/heavier bullets and a sound suppressor... .22LR and 7.62x39. This is for silent hunting should that ever become a need. A already bought plenty Aguila SSS in .22LR and a 1:9 twist barrel for a 10/22... now I'm looking for reasonably priced SS 7.62 ammo... and this is the one cartridge which I'll probably buy the Arsenal version for the 1:7 twist rifling. Edited March 3, 2011 by Mike1234567 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dorky_D 8 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have heard of some of the .223s having a 1:7. I hoped and prayed that mine did, but I have a 1:9.5. You can check it by using a flashlight a cleaning rod with a mop and couple of pieces of tape. Put the mop on the rod. Place piece of tape on the mop with a mark on it, so that you can see the mark move as you twist (put the mark at 12 oclock or so). Put the rod in the barrel and position it so that it is just past the chamber where it picks up the rifling. On the business/muzzle end, mark the rod with a piece of tape. Have someone with a flashlight watch as you pull the rod out. When the mop has made a complete revolution, mark or measure the distance from the other piece of tape. That is your twist rate. I believe Jim will be along at anytime. He will tell you his is a 1:9ish twist and his can stabilize a 75 grain. I believe he has shot it to 100 yards and it was fine, but I'll let him confirm that. Has anyone had any issues stabilizing 62 grain bullets? I am wanting to order a pile of ammo. I don't want to order some 62s if they do not work properly. Yes, I know each rifle is different, but I just wanted an opinion. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have heard of some of the .223s having a 1:7. I hoped and prayed that mine did, but I have a 1:9.5. You can check it by using a flashlight a cleaning rod with a mop and couple of pieces of tape. Put the mop on the rod. Place piece of tape on the mop with a mark on it, so that you can see the mark move as you twist (put the mark at 12 oclock or so). Put the rod in the barrel and position it so that it is just past the chamber where it picks up the rifling. On the business/muzzle end, mark the rod with a piece of tape. Have someone with a flashlight watch as you pull the rod out. When the mop has made a complete revolution, mark or measure the distance from the other piece of tape. That is your twist rate. I believe Jim will be along at anytime. He will tell you his is a 1:9ish twist and his can stabilize a 75 grain. I believe he has shot it to 100 yards and it was fine, but I'll let him confirm that. Has anyone had any issues stabilizing 62 grain bullets? I am wanting to order a pile of ammo. I don't want to order some 62s if they do not work properly. Yes, I know each rifle is different, but I just wanted an opinion. Thanks! See my earlier post...Mine loves the 62grn bthp brown bear...lucky me...lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dorky_D 8 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yeah, i saw your above post. I wanted to get other opintions in addition to yours. From what I have read, it should not be a problem, but before I order a boat load, I wanted to check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) I understand that 62 gr is no problem for the 1 to 9 . I have about 2000 rds of Gold Bear and 500 of Silver Bear , all 62 gr. but I also have 2000 rds of 75 gr which I wanted to share with my 1 to 7 AR-15 and the Saiga , but if my .223 is a 1 to 9 , I would have to do along with the 62s and some 55s (200 rds or so) and leave the 75 s for my AR ... ah, well... life sucks , isn`t ? Edited March 3, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 It doesn't matter what the twist of the rifle is; and it doesn't matter the weight of the bullets are. You simply shoot them and see if your rifle likes them or not. It's not like your rifle explodes or something if you put a 75 grain bullet in a 1:9 rifle. Hell; you can put an 80 grain bullet in a 1:10 and it's not going to hurt anything. Also realize; that most of the issues (Which is ONLY ACCURACY) is usually as pretty large distances. I say usually, because each gun is unique. At 100 yards, I can always hit my target, no matter what weight bullet it is shooting. And it doesn't matter if it's my saiga .223 or my AR15. Most times, people who are "Seriously" debating rifle twist and bullet weight, are anal about it, because they are into competition type shooting. But I promise you; that if you can hit a 100 yard target, consistently in a 3" group; you'll also be able to do that pretty much with a 62 or 75 grain bullet too. Now; if you're one of those people who are into the competition type shooting; and actually care what the letters MOA stand for; or into prairie dogs at 200 yards; then disregard what I've said. But if you're the type of person that likes to shoot paper targets and such, and might use the gun for home defense at under 100 feet; then buy whatever ammo you want. The only reason I don't buy 75 grain bullets is: They are more expensive than 55 and 62 grain bullets. If I could buy 75 grain ammo at the $3.50-$4.80 that I'm buying my 55 and 62 grain bullets; I would. Remember; the ONLY THING twist and Bullet weight have to do with each other is accuracy. And that accuracy isn't a real issues for most people until you start getting out to the 200+ yard range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike38 26 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) Hell; you can put an 80 grain bullet in a 1:10 and it's not going to hurt anything. That’s not really true. A lot of the 80 grain stuff out there requires a throated chamber. If you try 80 grain .223 / 5.56 in a non throated chamber, it will jam the bullet into the rifling. The bolt may not be fully closed, or if it does close, firing will create extremely high pressures. We're not talking about that. We're simply discussing the misconception that rifle twist vs bullet weight. There is nothing that a bullet's weight will have any negative impact on a gun because of the twist of the rifling. Non at all. I was simply taking the extreme bullet weight, and basically the extreme opposite direction twist and illustrating that it's not an issue. Edited March 4, 2011 by christcorp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I believe a longer barrel in 1:9 will stabilize a heavier bullet a little better than a 1:9 shorter barrel. A Saiga 223 in 20" may shoot the 75grn well. But I cannot say that I've tried with mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) That would make some sense. Given the same twist, a longer barrel will have increased muzzle velocity, which, in turn, will mean a higher rotational velocity. Some quick and dirty calculations result in an increase of 7%, well below the 31% increase gained by upping the twist from 1:9 to 1:7. Still, it could give slightly heavy-for-twist bullets the little extra stability they need. Edited March 4, 2011 by DrThunder88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 That would make some sense. Given the same twist, a longer barrel will have increased muzzle velocity, which, in turn, will mean a higher rotational velocity. Some quick and dirty calculations result in an increase of 7%, well below the 31% increase gained by upping the twist from 1:9 to 1:7. Still, it could give slightly heavy-for-twist bullets the little extra stability they need. Well, that is good news , because fortunately, my .223 has s a 20" barrel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Well, I just measured the twist on my 20" Saiga and it is 1 to 9 . I will be using the 55gr and the 62gr on this rifle , and then put away the 75gr for my 1 to 7 Ar-15 . Perhaps I will try the 75gr once or twice with the Saiga to see what it does , but overall , that is what I will do. Edited March 5, 2011 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Well, I just measured the twist on my 20" Saiga and it is 1 to 9 . I will be using the 55gr and the 62gr on this rifle , and then put away the 75gr for my 1 to 7 Ar-15 . Perhaps I will try the 75gr once or twice with the Saiga to see what it does , but overall , that is what I will do. Definitely "TRY" shooting the 75 grain bullet in your rifle???? You might find that it shoots perfectly. Depending on what you plan on doing with the rifle, many of the "Twist vs Bullet weight" comments are way too over rated. Matter of fact; the correct answer whenever anyone mentioned the twist of their rifle, and what ammo to use, should be: "Try it and find out". Any other answer is incorrect. Why? Because no two rifles are the same, and there is no firm law that says it won't work. And it's not possible to hurt anything, so the answer is: "Try it for yourself and find out". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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