Richard Erichsen 0 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) All, See URL: While I'm not looking for legal advise, I'm curious if the general consensus is that this form of stock is NOT "a conspicuous pistol grip" given the location of the web of the hand in relation to the trigger and the bottom of the receiver. JAE build a stock for the M14/M1A that the CA DOJ declared did not constitute an AW on grounds that the web of the hand was higher than the trigger and receiver bottom. While they obviously look fairly different, it would seem the web of the hand is also above the trigger on the Saiga adjustable and non-adjustable skeleton stock. Granted, the Saiga stock has a support above the web of the hand which the JAE 100 G2/G3 does not have. Whether the height of the grip relative to the trigger is the defining characteristic or the presence of a support neutralizes that argument is up for debate. Does anyone know if the CA DOJ has given guidance on this matter to interpret what is and what isn't "a pistol grip" or does every vendor have to wait for a form letter with a relatively high level signature to know for sure? -R Edited March 6, 2011 by Juggernaut Removed non contributor links Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) i think technically, thats a thumb hole stock. and im not positive, but i think that is classified under the same legality as a pistol grip under california law. so you can put it on your saiga, but be sure to also have a bullet button on there too. Edited March 6, 2011 by Cali_Armz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Erichsen 0 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) i think technically, thats a thumb hole stock. and im not positive, but i think that is classified under the same legality as a pistol grip under california law. so you can put it on your saiga, but be sure to also have a bullet button on there too. Cali_Armz, You could be correct - poll updated. When I think thumhole though, I usually imagine a pistol grip directly attached to a buttstock, but not what that means in terms of the position of the hand. I haven't seen a legal definition either and it's possible it has not been tested in court. I wonder how much variation exists in the interpretation? -R Edited March 6, 2011 by R.Erichsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Nope, not a pistol grip, it is a thumbhole stock... Another EVIL feature. I'm so glad I moved from SoCal. Edited March 6, 2011 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 i think technically, thats a thumb hole stock. and im not positive, but i think that is classified under the same legality as a pistol grip under california law. so you can put it on your saiga, but be sure to also have a bullet button on there too. Cali_Armz, You could be correct - poll updated. When I think thumhole though, I usually imagine a pistol grip directly attached to a buttstock, but not what that means in terms of the position of the hand. I haven't seen a legal definition either and it's possible it has not been tested in court. I wonder how much variation exists in the interpretation? -R im not sure man, i havent really looked into it. im just curious though, if you could have either a conventional pistol grip or a thumbhole stock, which would you prefer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kliegl 304 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I flew through a connection at San Francisco once and did not leave the airplane. Hopefully, I will never have to set foot on the ground of that state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Erichsen 0 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 i think technically, thats a thumb hole stock. and im not positive, but i think that is classified under the same legality as a pistol grip under california law. so you can put it on your saiga, but be sure to also have a bullet button on there too. Cali_Armz, You could be correct - poll updated. When I think thumhole though, I usually imagine a pistol grip directly attached to a buttstock, but not what that means in terms of the position of the hand. I haven't seen a legal definition either and it's possible it has not been tested in court. I wonder how much variation exists in the interpretation? -R im not sure man, i havent really looked into it. im just curious though, if you could have either a conventional pistol grip or a thumbhole stock, which would you prefer? I'd prefer the conventional stock, though the Saiga stocks are just too short for me (I need LOP of about 14.5" to be comfortable and a raised comb for a good cheek weld), I'm not looking to go Tactical. The penultimate would be what I've attached from BattleRifleG3, but he's utterly unreachable (the bottom example specifically). What's available from the factory isn't quite it in either grip angle, length or comb height. Other options that some folks go with are "grip straps" to make it impossible to grip in the conventional manner (which are godawful ugly), or the presence of a thumbhole stock or pistol grip requires a magazine lock to make it "non detachable" thanks to the AW laws. -R Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrGonZo 157 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) http://ag.ca.gov/fir...ide/awguide.php Go to this page and download the PDF file and read pages 71 and 72. They will tell you exactly what you can and can not legally have on your rifles, pistols and shotguns in CA. The definition of a pistol grip is if the webbing of your hand (the skin between your index finger and thumb) is below the top of the trigger/bottom of the receiver. If you are talking about putting a thumbhole stock on a rifle, you will first need a magazine lock. If you are talking about putting one on a shotgun, go ahead and do it because if you already have a Saiga shotgun in CA legally, you will already have a mag lock on it. But in the shotgun's case, the mag lock is not what will allow you to incorporate a thumbhole stock. Thumbhole stocks are legal on shotguns, Removable mags are not, hence the mag lock. I hope this isnt too confusing... CA gun laws blow donkeys. Edited March 7, 2011 by DrGonZo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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