State of The Saiga 12 Address

[Wildcatter 28]

Back in 2003, I was looking at the quarterly mailer from CDNN in Abiline, TX. They had a funny-looking magazine-fed shotgun that vaguely resembled an AK listed for $179. I thought, "that's novel, but my 100-year-old Browning A5 carries the same amount of ammunition and surely handles better". I never thought about them again. Until...

 

I had Tony Rumore help me with chambering and threading a barrel I had profiled for a 458 SOCOM AR project I was doing in 2005. I went to his website and saw what he was doing to that funny-looking AK-esque shotgun I had seen in the CDNN catalog. I thought that was pretty neat. I thought "I should pick one up since we are free of all of the AW Ban malarkey". I looked around for a good price. CDNN didn't carry them any more. I asked a gunsmith friend of mine if he ever got Saiga 12s in. He ordered one for me and one for him to play around with. The price was $375, which I thought was outlandish.

 

I coverted and went down a road that few had treaded (at the time) with my build. I got so much help from folks like Cobra76 II, Dinzag, and Tromix. I carved a walnut forend, installed a Tapco G2, a Romy folder, a custom sight set-up, and waited patiently for someone to make magazines the would help my new build outclass my 90+ year-old Browning.

 

I recieved 3 AGP mags from the first pre-order, soft aluminum feed-libs and all. They worked pretty well in their first iteration. they sent me properly hadened steel feed lips and everything ran fine. I proceeded to amaze my friends at every outing!

 

Fast-forward to 2011. Today I paid $750 plus shipping for a Z-109, stock S12 from a shop listing on Gunbroker. I was stunned at the prices. I made nearly 30 calls to find a better price, but to no avail. All of these shop owners, completely behind the curve, were saying things like "I think I saw those in the book, it says I can get you one for around $450. Let me call my distributor on Monday". I didn't let the grass grow, I BOUGHT IT NOW for 750 little ones. I am still a little stunned. This build is going to be an SBS on a Form 1 with all 3 pieces of funiture made out of some really finely figured walnut on an ACE hinge. I'm building it like I'm building a custom Mauser express rifle, with custom sights, checking, and all. It's a funny road that this advanced design in shotgun technology (1947 isn't really cutting edge is it?) has traveled.

 

I'm not one to yell the sky is falling. This is just a hobby and folks need to realize that. Still, I hope those folks that wanted one, have gotten one. It would be a real shame if the Saiga 12 evaporates from the importable list.

 

I just have to think, I could have put 100 of them on a credit card in 2003, paid the interest, and would be able to pay off my house with the profit today! Unbelievable.

 

 

---Catter

Edited March 14, 2011 by Wildcatter

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

There are several factors to consider...

 

1. the simple fact that prices on....well everything...have gone up. We can argue why, in another thread, until the cows come home, but it's mainly due to the dollar losing value.

 

2. panic buying with the S12. The ATF buttfucked the stryker and the sweeper, and let's not kid ourselves....it's bad enough news that they are even doing a "study" on these at all.

 

Now, I'm sure some will come to this thread and announce that the stryker and sweeper were different animals, and that is a somewhat plausible argument, and they'll also make up some excuse as to why the study is no big deal. And hey, I hope and prey that they are correct.

 

 

I want to by 100% crystal clear here....I'm not trying to start or turn this thread into an ATF study thread. I'm simply pointing out the reasons, in my opinion, that the S12 prices are heading north at an alarming rate.

[Wildcatter 28]

I wrote the above to influence others to maybe share their history with the Saiga 12. If this thread turns into a "tin-foil-hat" party, I'd rather it be locked by the administators. I should have made the sub-title "Share your Saiga 12 story" rather than "What is with these prices".

 

The fact is, (and somebody said it recently in another thread) this platform has been much cheaper than could be obtained from an American manufacturer. We have probably just been spoiled on the prices.

 

 

---Catter

Edited March 14, 2011 by Wildcatter

[schultze13 354]

You aren't kidding my first was in 04 for $325 I sold it after a year cause I couldn't find any extra mags and needed the money. At the time I did not get into computer forums and thought they were for nerds, geeks, homo's, and losers as I was out running the bars and conquering the world(In my 20's). A wife, kid and a house payment later I quit running the bars and found the internet and I became a "loser" then in 08 I found the 3rd love of my life after my kid and dog(hope the wife doesn't read this) the saiga forum and thought I need another after seeing how far they came and bought a S-12 for $450 and join here in 09. Then I got lucky on Jan.4 2011 I bought another S-12 and a S-20 for $525 each at a local shop that does lay-a-way and picked them up last week when I got my income tax great buy considering the price increase. Then on GB I just bought another S-12 for $699 just in case the sky is really falling and if that is not enough I sent the check out today to Koljec a member here for his .410. $500 with 4 mags and a paradox rifled choke. I got alot of work to do but aleast I have them in case the ATF put it to us, But I hope they don't and the price goes back down and I over paid for everything it will be the first time I over paid and was happy about it.

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

I wrote the above to influence others to maybe share their history with the Saiga 12. If this thread turns into a "tin-foil-hat" party, I'd rather it be locked by the administators. I should have made the sub-title "Share your Saiga 12 story" rather than "What is with these prices".

 

The fact is, (and somebody said it recently in another thread) this platform has been much cheaper than could be obtained from an American manufacturer. we have probably just spoiled on the price.

 

 

---Catter

 

Dude, "what is with this prices". That seemed like one of your main topics. That's the only reason I answered like I did.

 

I also agree that everyone is/was VERY spoiled on the price of an awesome, semi-auto, mag fed shotgun. I mean, just say that out loud. It's so fucking awesome it's crazy.

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

You aren't kidding my first was in 04 for $325 I sold it after a year cause I couldn't find any extra mags and needed the money. At the time I did not get into computer forums and thought they were for nerds, geeks, homo's, and losers as I was out running the bars and conquering the world(In my 20's). A wife, kid and a house payment later I quit running the bars and found the internet and I became a "loser" then in 08 I found the 3rd love of my life after my kid and dog(hope the wife doesn't read this) the saiga forum and thought I need another after seeing how far they came and bought a S-12 for $450 and join here in 09. Then I got lucky on Jan.4 2011 I bought another S-12 and a S-20 for $525 each at a local shop that does lay-a-way and picked them up last week when I got my income tax great buy considering the price increase. Then on GB I just bought another S-12 for $699 just in case the sky is really falling and if that is not enough I sent the check out today to Koljec a member here for his .410. $500 with 4 mags and a paradox rifled choke. I got alot of work to do but aleast I have them in case the ATF put it to us, But I hope they don't and the price goes back down and I over paid for everything it will be the first time I over paid and was happy about it.

 

I wouldn't worry about it to much. I haven't known to many people that paid X amount for any gun and had it worth less than that years later. Guns, even if you hate the idea of them, are a very solid investment on several fronts.

[Spartacus 1,619]

 

<clip>......

 

I'm not one to yell the sky is falling. This is just a hobby and folks need to realize that.

 

.....<clip>

 

 

Uhh no. Firearms are by far NOT just a hobby!

Good post in general, but your "hobby" of firearms is an extremely serious issue for many people.

[Wildcatter 28]

 

<clip>......

 

I'm not one to yell the sky is falling. This is just a hobby and folks need to realize that.

 

.....<clip>

 

 

Uhh no. Firearms are by far NOT just a hobby!

Good post in general, but your "hobby" of firearms is an extremely serious issue for many people.

 

 

You are, of course, right about that. The second amendment is the the one that protects the rest. Personaly, my interest is far more than a hobby. I will maintain, though, that any certain platform of interest to folks is, infact, part of their hobby of gun collecting, the shooting sports, hunting, you name it. One can defend themseves with a pump 870 effectively and a Saiga 12 is not neccessary. That being said, I disagree with any disenfranchisement of law-abiding citizens to own any small arm they desire, no matter the caliber, capacity, or capability.

 

 

 

---Catter

[Spartacus 1,619]

Amen brother!

 

I certainly understand the hobbyist aspect of firearm ownership too.

 

Just bothers me that some people DO have the frame of mind that guns are just for hunting and hobbyists. That's the frame of mind that starts to lead into the statements like "nobody needs assault weapons" and "nobody needs more than 10 rounds" and "nobody needs a gun like that for hunting".

[Ned Beatty 39]

Theres nothing to worry about, I read it in another thread, from one of the industry guys, quit worrying already, its just driving up prices.

[StudentDeSaiga 2]

I remember seeing them in the back pages of Shotgun News in the late 90's and thinking "cool, good price, no rush". Added it to my "ideal bare essentials list" and focused on obtaining other guns mainly rifles. A LOT of guns have come and gone since then and I decided this year would be the year to mark the Saiga 12 off the list. Did my taxes, scheduled deposit was March 4th, and started shopping Saigas - and was floored at the prices. Did some "interneting" that brought me to the atf study and read through several forums/threads trying to decide if it was worth waiting til May 1st. I may have overpaid 150 but its a small price for insurance. Even if they don't ban importation who's to say everything is going back to normal May 1st, considering the state of Izhmash, importation relations, and dollar value.

 

I hope those that are optimistic are correct, but regardless of the outcome, its a panic buy I don't regret.

[schultze13 354]

I have a Shotgun News from "04 it was the first issue after the AW ban sunsetted and on the back page it has a S-12 MSRP $299. Sure wish I knew then what I know now.

[Mephis 82]

I have a Shotgun News from "04 it was the first issue after the AW ban sunsetted and on the back page it has a S-12 MSRP $299. Sure wish I knew then what I know now.

 

 

Exact year I bought mine and signed up here. I grabbed it for $199.

 

I do like the finish better on the newer ones, but hey, I'm not paying $700 for a flat finish.

[Saiga12Lover 0]

I have a Shotgun News from "04 it was the first issue after the AW ban sunsetted and on the back page it has a S-12 MSRP $299. Sure wish I knew then what I know now.

 

Exact year I bought mine and signed up here. I grabbed it for $199.

 

I do like the finish better on the newer ones, but hey, I'm not paying $700 for a flat finish.

 

Do it yourself!

 

Get it sandblasted somewhere, build one of these: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1609093, order $60 worth of chemicals from Brownells (Gun-Kote and KPhos), and spend a Saturday making your baby awesome for roughly $120 + sandblasting!

 

I am considering tricking mine out with a Gun-Kote finish, AK wood furniture, polishing up the bolt and the carrier, and selling it on an auction site, and buying 2 more.

[manly 0]

there have been some s 12's listed locally used non converted with one 12 rd mag at $1000...............WTF.....lol

 

 

[702Saiga12 6]

there is this douchebag gun store around the corner...they have a converted s12 with tapco furniture, light, and pro-mag drum..and they are asking $3000!!! i hope that place burns down.

 

just wait a few months and s12's will be back in full effect.

[retrocon 0]

Been researching this and decided to contact RAAC... Clyde said, and i'll paraphrase ... The 12 gage version is under review by the ATF. Announcement from them is expected May 1st.

 

Possibly another Obama "regulatory" action.

 

Anyone have a confirmation?

[beerasaurus 9]

The thing I'll toss in--which has been mentioned by others but not dwelled upon--is that it's unlikely prices are going to go down. And even if they do, it won't be by much.

 

There are dozens of reasons for the prices of Saigas to go up, and all are probably contributing to the scrum, but as anyone who was collecting assault rifles before the Clinton ban will tell you, the prices for them never rebounded. ARs used to be around $500. AKs and SKS were a couple hundred. And now? Does anyone sell an AR for less than $900?

 

Point being, it would be nice if people avoided the scare (which is absolutely helping to drive prices up). But now that dealers know what they can get for Saigas, it's incredibly unlikely that they'll suddenly decide to drop the prices a few hundred bucks even after this shit is over.

 

$650 is the new base price for Saigas...and those of us who bought ours for cheaper should be happy with the deals we got.

[armyjnd 2]

ar prices have decreased alot lately and I have seen bushmasters go for 650 with a cheap bushnell scope on them. So it is not totally impossible for the price to go back down. If you think about it this all started in january so it has been less than 90 days while it was a dramatic turn up there is no way to tell if it is permanent the best way to tell is to stop buying them for a couple of months. The tin foil hat group unbfortinatly lives in the gun community so I doubt that as a group we could come together and drive down merchant prices. People do need to stop blaming merchants for this problem though it is simple supply and demand on top of good old capitalism which is what america runs on. The merchants have the right to sell there products for whatever they want and you have the choice to not buy them. I got my saiga 2 to 3 years ago for 450 and have loved it since. I was going to build one for my brother than this situation happened so he might get a saiga 762x39 or a 308 instead ow well.