Which to get : Romanian PSL or a Russian Tigr?

[MrOneEyedBoh 14]

Lets not be biased on the Tigr, since its Izhmash produced. I just have always been interested in these guns, and I was like "hmm, prolly should get one while I have the money". I DO want a Dragunov, but Im not going to dump that amount of money on it.

 

So my choices are a Tigr or a PSL. Is there a BIG difference in accuracy? Im sure there is a tad better shoot ability with the Tigr, but does it warrant the extra 1000 or so bucks that the Tigr calls for?

[7N6Wolf 61]

I have not fired either of these rifles, but I have been told that the PSL is just as accurate as an SVD. Personally, I would save my money and go with the PSL if I were you. I have also seen a fair deal of Tigr rifles selling for $3K, so unless I am mistaken, the difference between the PSL and Tigr is greater than $1000. Dragunov magazines also cost more, which would be another factor when it comes to having the Tigr. In my opinion, SVD style rifles are more suited for collectors and such that have a lot of spare money to burn. For practical shooting, I would go with the PSL for a marksman rifle in 7.62X54R. And even if the Tigr were more accurate than the PSL, I seriously doubt that it would warrant the extra cost (if I were really concerned about accuracy, I would probably just go with a gun that is more accurate than a PSL or SVD, i.e. DPMS LR308, Remington 700, etc.).

Edited March 15, 2011 by 7N6Wolf

[MrOneEyedBoh 14]

Ok cool, I seen a few Tigrs for sale on ARF and they went for around 2-2500

[L5K 162]

They are totally different beasts.

The Tigr is based on the Dragunov design by Yevgeny Dragunov, the PSL is just a big Kalashnikov. Accuracy wise I really can't say but I have heard of people hitting head sized targets at 600 meters with a PSL. That said, the SVD is used as a DMR and a sniper rifle, whereas the PSL is really just a DMR.

 

All that said, if you have the money to spend I'd get a SVD. But if you were in my position, without a lot of extra money PSL all the way.

[jmzzl 146]

I'm dying for a PSL. Poor man's Dragunov .

[kresk 10,063]

If you got the bucks, go for the Tigr. If not, PSL.

[TX-Zen 287]

Part of the question is how much accuracy do you get for the money vs cool factor. Some guys only count the dollar to MOA ratio and if that's what matters get the PSL for sure, it's much cheaper and will perform very similarly.

 

If you really want an SVD though, Tiger's and NDM86's are fantastic rifles. There's really nothing else out there like them and they are (IMO) much nicer to shoot than PSL's. Trigger pull is very smooth and light, the stock is easier to get used to than the PSL and there's a big optical quality difference in the PSO-1M2 on the Tiger vs the LPS/TIP2 on the PSL.

 

Out of the box I think Tiger's and NDM's are going to be more consistent shooters (I've never heard anyone say they got a lemon), PSL's on the other hand can suffer luck of the draw like any kit build...some are great and some aren't. Like I said in PM my TGI was a dog and could never hold better than 4 MOA but at the Behind Lines class Marco Vorobiev's PSL was a real 1 MOA shooter.

 

Safest bet IMO is to go for the PSL first and see how you like the combloc style DMR. It's not as comfortable as the Tiger or NDM but will give you an idea of how they operate, later you can sell it and get most of your money back at least, then buy a Tiger if the mood strikes you.

 

Having owned both, for me the argument is more like an underfolder vs a side folding stock AK...both will basically perform the same but to me the underfolder is not as nice as the side folder, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

eta

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is an NDM86 in 308/7.62x51. It's a true sub MOA shooter, my old one did .74 MOA using Winchester Ballistic Silvertips in 168gr and did 1 MOA without any effort on my part. The nice thing is they are generally much cheaper than 54R versions but in the last few years they have become really hard to find for some reason.

 

With the 308 version you need to be careful about what ammo you use though, the SVD action is violent and I had continual problems with pierced primers liquifying and jamming the firing pin because Western commerical primers are really soft. I sent it to PA Distributing and Bill rounded the FP tip and that was a huge improvement. CCI 200 primers are much harder than many 308 primers on the market, when I handloaded for my 54R I never had a single pierced primer and had not had the work done to the FP on it.

 

Speaking of 54R again, if you get into handloading you can really can work up a load that will shoot sub MOA, at least for less than 400-500 yards. I used .311 Speer 150gr flat tail bullets and shot a .93" at 100 yards, but the flat tails don't do as well at longer ranges. Still, there is room to cook something up that will get the most out of the SVD design which is truly capable of sub MOA performance. It just needs a decent shooter and the right ammo.

 

308 NDM:

 

 

 

 

Z

Edited March 15, 2011 by TX-Zen

[YEL13 3]

somewhat off topic, but there is sort of a third choice....if you want something a little better than a PSL, but still much cheaper than a Tigr theres always the M76, kind of in between in cost too, shoots 8mm mauser though.... I just wanted to mention it lol, I've been thinking about getting one for a little while now but the funds elude me

[Arik 565]

Or a converted S308. Like a psl but with better/more ammo choices.

[atakacorp 147]

Part of the question is how much accuracy do you get for the money vs cool factor. Some guys only count the dollar to MOA ratio and if that's what matters get the PSL for sure, it's much cheaper and will perform very similarly.

 

If you really want an SVD though, Tiger's and NDM86's are fantastic rifles. There's really nothing else out there like them and they are (IMO) much nicer to shoot than PSL's. Trigger pull is very smooth and light, the stock is easier to get used to than the PSL and there's a big optical quality difference in the PSO-1M2 on the Tiger vs the LPS/TIP2 on the PSL.

 

Out of the box I think Tiger's and NDM's are going to be more consistent shooters (I've never heard anyone say they got a lemon), PSL's on the other hand can suffer luck of the draw like any kit build...some are great and some aren't. Like I said in PM my TGI was a dog and could never hold better than 4 MOA but at the Behind Lines class Marco Vorobiev's PSL was a real 1 MOA shooter.

 

Safest bet IMO is to go for the PSL first and see how you like the combloc style DMR. It's not as comfortable as the Tiger or NDM but will give you an idea of how they operate, later you can sell it and get most of your money back at least, then buy a Tiger if the mood strikes you.

 

Having owned both, for me the argument is more like an underfolder vs a side folding stock AK...both will basically perform the same but to me the underfolder is not as nice as the side folder, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

eta

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is an NDM86 in 308/7.62x51. It's a true sub MOA shooter, my old one did .74 MOA using Winchester Ballistic Silvertips in 168gr and did 1 MOA without any effort on my part. The nice thing is they are generally much cheaper than 54R versions but in the last few years they have become really hard to find for some reason.

 

With the 308 version you need to be careful about what ammo you use though, the SVD action is violent and I had continual problems with pierced primers liquifying and jamming the firing pin because Western commerical primers are really soft. I sent it to PA Distributing and Bill rounded the FP tip and that was a huge improvement. CCI 200 primers are much harder than many 308 primers on the market, when I handloaded for my 54R I never had a single pierced primer and had not had the work done to the FP on it.

 

Speaking of 54R again, if you get into handloading you can really can work up a load that will shoot sub MOA, at least for less than 400-500 yards. I used .311 Speer 150gr flat tail bullets and shot a .93" at 100 yards, but the flat tails don't do as well at longer ranges. Still, there is room to cook something up that will get the most out of the SVD design which is truly capable of sub MOA performance. It just needs a decent shooter and the right ammo.

 

308 NDM:

 

 

 

 

Z

+1 on what Zen is saying, I have PSL, love it, accurate enough,fun gun to shoot 7.62X54R light ball is great round and cheap too,but if I would have more money to spent on my toys I would definitely go with Dragunov/Tigr, Different rifle better quality

 

 

PS and they have Dragunov/Tigr in 308

Edited March 15, 2011 by atakacorp

[TX-Zen 287]

 

 

 

This is an ideal setup for me, the SVD stock made for the PSL removes what I think the biggest turn off of the rifle which is poor ergonomics compared to the actual Dragunov. I have the black poly on my NDM and love it, the same stock on a PSL should make it a very comfortable shooter.

 

 

 

 

Z

[AK_Fanatic_N_AZ 6]

If you have the money to drop on a Tigr or NDM86 go for it! The SVD is my #1 dream rifle right now. However, I don't think you would be disappointed with a PSL if you get one. It's not a sub-MOA shooter, but you can still get very good accuracy, ≈2 MOA or less depending on the particular rifle, at 300m.

[BuggingOut 0]

Sorry if this has been asked already: What will you be using it for?

 

atakacorp: that first shot of your 308 NDM looks great!

[atakacorp 147]

Sorry if this has been asked already: What will you be using it for?

 

atakacorp: that first shot of your 308 NDM looks great!

I wish, but its Zens.lucky bastard

[MrOneEyedBoh 14]

I'm just going tk be punching paper. I may just go psl....

[IndyArms 10,186]

There are multiple threads on the forum from me about the accuracy of *MY* PSL. I have shot a .75" group just last fall with my reloads. pics are someplace. and another shot somewhere else, too, of a 10 shot group about the size of a quarter.

 

Maybe I got a good one... regardless... I would get the PSL. It does NOT have the wow and cool factor and "class" of the tigr, but its a third the price at the least. Thats a LOT of ammo and other toys you can buy to make up for that.

 

Thats just MY 2 cents.

 

 

 

[BuzzNectar 35]

i absolutly love the SVD....however,in terms of accuracy and reliability the PSL and SVD are close to one another,UNLESS you have an actual bayonet specificly for the SVD(ment to be attached while shooting,acts as a boss system) and use 7N1 sniper rounds(designed just for the SVD) then the SVD will by far surpass many rifles.now the thing is that getting ahold of this total set up is very hard and expensive.also you are looking at the Tigr which will not accept the bayo anyway.so i say get the PSL due to cost unless you have the money for the Tigr which would be cool.oh yeah the SVD mags are quite a bit more than PSL.not trying to knock anything just my way of thinking.i have shot the chineese,the Tigr,and owned a couple PSL's.i like all of them and if i had my way i would have a russian SVD with the bayo and cans of 7N1,but thats not possible for me right now and my PSL does a great job.

[BuzzNectar 35]

There are multiple threads on the forum from me about the accuracy of *MY* PSL. I have shot a .75" group just last fall with my reloads. pics are someplace. and another shot somewhere else, too, of a 10 shot group about the size of a quarter.

 

Maybe I got a good one... regardless... I would get the PSL. It does NOT have the wow and cool factor and "class" of the tigr, but its a third the price at the least. Thats a LOT of ammo and other toys you can buy to make up for that.

 

Thats just MY 2 cents.

 

 

 

and thats .02 cents well spent except alot of people don't know the difference between a PSL and SVD.so they are like "dang man you got a dragunov just like off call of duty" i usually just smile and say "yep"

[corbin 621]

I saw a nice "Drag" made on an NDS receiver the other day. Don't know much about it, but it looked good. 7.62x54R

 

A century build maybe?

[TX-Zen 287]

: except alot of people don't know the difference between a PSL and SVD.so they are like "dang man you got a dragunov just like off call of duty" i usually just smile and say "yep"

 

 

I'll never understand the people you meet at ranges when it comes to Dragunov's

 

 

When I had a PSL people would ask me if it was a Chinese Dragunov. Later they would ask me about 10x as often if my NDM86 was a Romanian Dragunov. The other day some guy asked me what kind of SKS I was shooting, he recognized the polymer furniture and wanted to get one for himself. I told him it was actually a Chinese SVD and he insisted it looked just like an SKS that his buddy had.

 

facepalm

 

 

 

Z

[MrOneEyedBoh 14]

haha yeah

 

ok guys well I had someone contact me on a PSL with 10 mags, all the accessories and a hard case for 700 shipped.

 

Or I can get a kit locally for 550 with a nodak receiver ( unsure if its a flat or bent ) unsure if it comes with the scope.

 

If I got he parts kit route, Im going to try and get it a tad lower... I also have someone locally that has built AKs before, and he is going to help me without charge!!!

[Jpanzer 1,265]

 

 

 

This is an ideal setup for me, the SVD stock made for the PSL removes what I think the biggest turn off of the rifle which is poor ergonomics compared to the actual Dragunov. I have the black poly on my NDM and love it, the same stock on a PSL should make it a very comfortable shooter.

 

 

 

 

Z

 

 

Zen, where could I find a polymer PSL stock like that one?

[AK_Fanatic_N_AZ 6]

 

 

Zen, where could I find a polymer PSL stock like that one?

 

Try this site...http://www.comblocstore.com/PSL-Romak-3-Polymer-Stock-set_p_12.html. I'm not sure if another site has it cheaper, but this is one I ran across while searching for a SVD type buttstock for the PSL.

[Mephis 82]

I really love my PSL, and it's my go-to rifle if I don't know what I want to do that day, whether messing around or heading to the range.

 

Always fun when you can plop down with an oversized AK and actually beat the accuracy or a lot of other rifles out there. I just evened up the crown on mine, and it'll out-shoot me regardless of the range.

 

Was kind of hard to sight in because with a 25 yard zero it was about a foot and a half high at 100.

 

I think it's an attractive looking rifle as well. Managed to get the action so flawlessly smooth I still have trouble believing it's an oversized AK. That being said, if I had $2000 or $2500 and could find a tigr I'd snatch it in a heartbeat even if I was eating ketchup and bread for a few months. For now though, I don't believe there's a functional difference, I just want an Izhmash in x54r.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Tombs

[Arik 565]

haha yeah

 

ok guys well I had someone contact me on a PSL with 10 mags, all the accessories and a hard case for 700 shipped.

 

Or I can get a kit locally for 550 with a nodak receiver ( unsure if its a flat or bent ) unsure if it comes with the scope.

 

If I got he parts kit route, Im going to try and get it a tad lower... I also have someone locally that has built AKs before, and he is going to help me without charge!!!

 

I'd go for the package deal. Mags for them arnt cheap. I think centerfire had them 4/$80 or something like that. Any chance it was bigSal?

 

If you buy one change out the fcg with one from red star. A world of differance.

[MrOneEyedBoh 14]

haha yeah

 

ok guys well I had someone contact me on a PSL with 10 mags, all the accessories and a hard case for 700 shipped.

 

Or I can get a kit locally for 550 with a nodak receiver ( unsure if its a flat or bent ) unsure if it comes with the scope.

 

If I got he parts kit route, Im going to try and get it a tad lower... I also have someone locally that has built AKs before, and he is going to help me without charge!!!

 

I'd go for the package deal. Mags for them arnt cheap. I think centerfire had them 4/$80 or something like that. Any chance it was bigSal?

 

If you buy one change out the fcg with one from red star. A world of differance.

 

 

Good deal man. thanks.. Long story short, someone was supposed to buy it never sent money. So he contacted me yesterday. I hope I get it. Its a true romanian built one too. He said it may have a crack on the hangard, but thats just wood, so who cares.

[atakacorp 147]

haha yeah

 

ok guys well I had someone contact me on a PSL with 10 mags, all the accessories and a hard case for 700 shipped.

 

Or I can get a kit locally for 550 with a nodak receiver ( unsure if its a flat or bent ) unsure if it comes with the scope.

 

If I got he parts kit route, Im going to try and get it a tad lower... I also have someone locally that has built AKs before, and he is going to help me without charge!!!

Original Rom. PSL +10 mags, for 700$? make sure you buy it ,or I will

Very hard to find original PSL this days.

[atakacorp 147]

I really love my PSL, and it's my go-to rifle if I don't know what I want to do that day, whether messing around or heading to the range.

 

Always fun when you can plop down with an oversized AK and actually beat the accuracy or a lot of other rifles out there. I just evened up the crown on mine, and it'll out-shoot me regardless of the range.

 

Was kind of hard to sight in because with a 25 yard zero it was about a foot and a half high at 100.

 

I think it's an attractive looking rifle as well. Managed to get the action so flawlessly smooth I still have trouble believing it's an oversized AK. That being said, if I had $2000 or $2500 and could find a tigr I'd snatch it in a heartbeat even if I was eating ketchup and bread for a few months. For now though, I don't believe there's a functional difference, I just want an Izhmash in x54r.

Nice stick ,CAT

[atakacorp 147]

Hey, Indy tell us more about the girl

[BuzzNectar 35]

I really love my PSL, and it's my go-to rifle if I don't know what I want to do that day, whether messing around or heading to the range.

 

Always fun when you can plop down with an oversized AK and actually beat the accuracy or a lot of other rifles out there. I just evened up the crown on mine, and it'll out-shoot me regardless of the range.

 

Was kind of hard to sight in because with a 25 yard zero it was about a foot and a half high at 100.

 

I think it's an attractive looking rifle as well. Managed to get the action so flawlessly smooth I still have trouble believing it's an oversized AK. That being said, if I had $2000 or $2500 and could find a tigr I'd snatch it in a heartbeat even if I was eating ketchup and bread for a few months. For now though, I don't believe there's a functional difference, I just want an Izhmash in x54r.

someone correct me if im wrong but if i remember right then zeroed out at 25 meters = 300meters and at 100 it should be around 16cm above.since you were doing it at yards instead of meters it sounds about right.