MHSTC16 1 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I have an ACE fixed skeleton stock on my saiga 7.62. I love the stock but after firing about 200 rds the 2 allen bolts that hold the stock to the receiver were so loose that when I picked the gun up by the pistol grip after coming home from the range the butt stock came off and the rest of the gun was still laying in the case. I know now that I should have put loctite on the 2 bolts when I first bought the stock and put it on but I did get them very tight and honestly I didn't realize the bolt was hitting the rear of the receiver that hard. Also the instructions that came from ACE said nothing about using it. I put blue loctite on the bolts when I put it back together and I also installed the Blackjack recoil buffer. I haven't fired the gun yet. What I'm asking is is this type of recoil normal? Will the loctite be enough? And does the recoil buffer affect reliability? I have fired 700 to 800 rds through this gun and have never had any malfunction whatsoever and for what I bought this gun for reliability is the most important thing for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I have an ACE fixed skeleton stock on my saiga 7.62. I love the stock but after firing about 200 rds the 2 allen bolts that hold the stock to the receiver were so loose that when I picked the gun up by the pistol grip after coming home from the range the butt stock came off and the rest of the gun was still laying in the case. I know now that I should have put loctite on the 2 bolts when I first bought the stock and put it on but I did get them very tight and honestly I didn't realize the bolt was hitting the rear of the receiver that hard. Also the instructions that came from ACE said nothing about using it. I put blue loctite on the bolts when I put it back together and I also installed the Blackjack recoil buffer. I haven't fired the gun yet. What I'm asking is is this type of recoil normal? Will the loctite be enough? And does the recoil buffer affect reliability? I have fired 700 to 800 rds through this gun and have never had any malfunction whatsoever and for what I bought this gun for reliability is the most important thing for me. You don't need the recoil buffer unless your gun is over-gassed. It won't reduce recoil, only prevent the bolt carrier from hitting the rear truncheon of your receiver if it's over gassed thus reducing wear and tear. A normal ak design doesn't make any (or at least very little) contact with the reciever. It shouldn't affect recoil or reliability in any case. Loctite should be enough to keep the screws in place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHSTC16 1 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I have an ACE fixed skeleton stock on my saiga 7.62. I love the stock but after firing about 200 rds the 2 allen bolts that hold the stock to the receiver were so loose that when I picked the gun up by the pistol grip after coming home from the range the butt stock came off and the rest of the gun was still laying in the case. I know now that I should have put loctite on the 2 bolts when I first bought the stock and put it on but I did get them very tight and honestly I didn't realize the bolt was hitting the rear of the receiver that hard. Also the instructions that came from ACE said nothing about using it. I put blue loctite on the bolts when I put it back together and I also installed the Blackjack recoil buffer. I haven't fired the gun yet. What I'm asking is is this type of recoil normal? Will the loctite be enough? And does the recoil buffer affect reliability? I have fired 700 to 800 rds through this gun and have never had any malfunction whatsoever and for what I bought this gun for reliability is the most important thing for me. You don't need the recoil buffer unless your gun is over-gassed. It won't reduce recoil, only prevent the bolt carrier from hitting the rear truncheon of your receiver if it's over gassed thus reducing wear and tear. A normal ak design doesn't make any (or at least very little) contact with the reciever. It shouldn't affect recoil or reliability in any case. Loctite should be enough to keep the screws in place. I'm going to shoot it tomorrow and see how it does. I'll probably shoot a couple of mags and check the bolts. I'm not really feeling any recoil on my shoulder with the 1 in. recoil pad on the stock I just thought I would try the blackjack buffer to keep the bolt from pounding the back of the receiver. If the loctite does the job I'll just keep using it without the buffer. I had read that the buffer could affect reliability in some guns. My gun is 100% reliable and I don't want to change that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 The 7.62x39 doesn't have nearly the high intensive recoil that people like to assume it does (at least for the semi-autos). Does it recoil more than 223? Yeah, but we aren't talking shotgun type recoil here. I've got a pad, without it, the only thing I notice is a shorter stock with less grip on the end. To check if it will effect the reliability, see how far your bolt pulls back with the recoil buffer installed. If it clears the ejection slot in the dust cover before hitting buffer, you should be fine. I originally bought one for my 7.62x39, and moved it over to my S-12. I figured that would be the one that I should have more of a concern with receiver wear and tear if I forget to change the gas settings. If you like the buffer, it won't cause much noticeable damage, if any at all, to your gun. Some say that it'll crack the receiver though I've never seen that effect reported , but why take the risk if you don't have over-gassing issue? Oh, and the S-12 does have an ACE stock as well. I loctited mine and tightened them pretty snug with no issues even before the buffer was installed. Hope the loctite holds up well man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHSTC16 1 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 The 7.62x39 doesn't have nearly the high intensive recoil that people like to assume it does (at least for the semi-autos). Does it recoil more than 223? Yeah, but we aren't talking shotgun type recoil here. I've got a pad, without it, the only thing I notice is a shorter stock with less grip on the end. To check if it will effect the reliability, see how far your bolt pulls back with the recoil buffer installed. If it clears the ejection slot in the dust cover before hitting buffer, you should be fine. I originally bought one for my 7.62x39, and moved it over to my S-12. I figured that would be the one that I should have more of a concern with receiver wear and tear if I forget to change the gas settings. If you like the buffer, it won't cause much noticeable damage, if any at all, to your gun. Some say that it'll crack the receiver though I've never seen that effect reported , but why take the risk if you don't have over-gassing issue? Oh, and the S-12 does have an ACE stock as well. I loctited mine and tightened them pretty snug with no issues even before the buffer was installed. Hope the loctite holds up well man! Thanks for the feedback on this. Hopefully the loctite will put this to bed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 This thing about blackjack buffers ... everybody have a different theory . Me, at first I installed it on my PSL 7.62x54R to avoid the beating of the trunnion . I read a lot of opinions , mostly negatives about it : that it would damage the gun , that would crack open the receiver , that would impede the functioning and would cause problems... I installed it anyway and after more than 200 rds it works perfectly , my trunnion is safe and protected and I am very happy about it. Now that I have purchased a Saiga .223 , I also installed a Blackjack buffer on it. Have not fired it yet , but I am sure it would be performing as well as my PSL . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 i have an ace stock and have run over 2k rounds through the gun since installing it.. no loctite no issues maybe mine is just on tighter? but seriously.. no issues at all.. certainly doesn't come loose in any way.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHSTC16 1 Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 The 7.62x39 doesn't have nearly the high intensive recoil that people like to assume it does (at least for the semi-autos). Does it recoil more than 223? Yeah, but we aren't talking shotgun type recoil here. I've got a pad, without it, the only thing I notice is a shorter stock with less grip on the end. To check if it will effect the reliability, see how far your bolt pulls back with the recoil buffer installed. If it clears the ejection slot in the dust cover before hitting buffer, you should be fine. I originally bought one for my 7.62x39, and moved it over to my S-12. I figured that would be the one that I should have more of a concern with receiver wear and tear if I forget to change the gas settings. If you like the buffer, it won't cause much noticeable damage, if any at all, to your gun. Some say that it'll crack the receiver though I've never seen that effect reported , but why take the risk if you don't have over-gassing issue? Oh, and the S-12 does have an ACE stock as well. I loctited mine and tightened them pretty snug with no issues even before the buffer was installed. Hope the loctite holds up well man! Took my rifle out today. Fired 100rds. Checked the bolts after the first 60 and they were still tight. Fired the last forty and checked them again. And they were still very tight. Looks like its good to go now! I was just curious. How can I tell if my rifle is overgassed? And if it is will it hurt anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Took my rifle out today. Fired 100rds. Checked the bolts after the first 60 and they were still tight. Fired the last forty and checked them again. And they were still very tight. Looks like its good to go now! I was just curious. How can I tell if my rifle is overgassed? And if it is will it hurt anything? I dont know if my rifle is over gassed either. All I know is that my first shots thru it I noticed an audible crack when my action hit the rear of the reciever. I bought a blackjack buffer and it worked like a charm, no more steel on steel slap. Well, my buffer broke after 200rds and I sent it back to black jack. It cost $2 +stamp and I got it back in less than a full week. Blackjack has great customer service and if you get one ORDER FROM BLACKJACK DIRECTLY, then if it breaks you dont have to add the 2 dollars to the envelope. Randy from there was great answering all questions and responding in a timely maner. Even though mine broke well before the 5000rd rating, the CS was what really sold me on their product. Also they are thinner than buffertech buffers seeming to eliminate FTF's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shane_eld 0 Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have an ACE fixed skeleton stock on my saiga 7.62. I love the stock but after firing about 200 rds the 2 allen bolts that hold the stock to the receiver were so loose that when I picked the gun up by the pistol grip after coming home from the range the butt stock came off and the rest of the gun was still laying in the case. I know now that I should have put loctite on the 2 bolts when I first bought the stock and put it on but I did get them very tight and honestly I didn't realize the bolt was hitting the rear of the receiver that hard. Also the instructions that came from ACE said nothing about using it. I put blue loctite on the bolts when I put it back together and I also installed the Blackjack recoil buffer. I haven't fired the gun yet. What I'm asking is is this type of recoil normal? Will the loctite be enough? And does the recoil buffer affect reliability? I have fired 700 to 800 rds through this gun and have never had any malfunction whatsoever and for what I bought this gun for reliability is the most important thing for me. You don't need the recoil buffer unless your gun is over-gassed. It won't reduce recoil, only prevent the bolt carrier from hitting the rear truncheon of your receiver if it's over gassed thus reducing wear and tear. A normal ak design doesn't make any (or at least very little) contact with the reciever. It shouldn't affect recoil or reliability in any case. Loctite should be enough to keep the screws in place. wrong wrong wrong indeed..EVERY god damn AK-47 slams its carrier into the rear trunnion..overgassed or not i think they all slam. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Mine doesn't, I guess I must be doing something wrong eh... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaba1017 71 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Put a compensator on it. After putting a compensator on my 7.62x39 I can hardly tell the difference in recoil between it and the .223. So I put one on the .223 and I can't tell the difference between it and an airsoft rifle. The recoil buffers of 7.62 x 39 don't do anything for felt recoil. But haven't affected performance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thread necromancy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian M1 50 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) I'm not a fan of "Buffer's". IMHO, they move the impact from the reciever trunion (designed to take a beating) to the receiver welds/rivets themselves (which are NOT designed to take that beating). AK's have been operating since the '40's withOUT buffers. There is not a sudden need for them. They are often used to "fix" VERY ill fitting receivers that cause the carrier to "pop out" of the rail when cycled under heavy rounds, but again... this is a bandaid fix for a diff problem. Buffers shorten the cycle of the bolt and fix NOTHING. They only move the recoil impact from one place (designed to handle it) to another (not designed to handle it). IMHO... as for "buffers"... DON'T. As for recoil... you could always try a recoil pad. You could try the "soviet style" slip on boot (looks like a clown shoe) or trim a Simms Recoil reducer pad (otherwise known as "limbsaver" pad) to fit. You could trip a slip on OR factory small shotgun version to fit, then glue it on the buttstock plate with 3m spray adhesive. .... or you could shoot lots of 12ga (like me) and realize that 7.62 is nothing compared to it and be happy :-) I have the .223 version now and laughed out loud when I shot it. I cannot believe that people buy slip on pads for the .223. What a joke. That round shoots like a pea shooter compared to 12 ga (obviously 7.62 is more, but still less than 12ga). Snap on limbsaver pads for M4's?? You have got to be kidding me! Lol! But seriously.. it's all relative. Shoot some heavy loads (12ga, .308, 30-06, etc) for awhile, or you could use the clown shoe, or spray glue on a Simms (limbsaver) pad. Edited August 19, 2012 by Brian M1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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