Photoguy 202 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I've taken to carrying my G-17 lately, but I never carry or keep it around with a round chambered; just with the magazine full. I'm somewhat afraid---or extremely paranoid---that the thing will have an AD. And yes, I have seen the video of the ATF guy who had a Glock go off, and I think it negatively affected me. Am I crazy, or do I have a valid concern? I'm planning on getting the gun fully checked out by a gunsmith for integrity, pretty much to ease my fears. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mcpny 3 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I carried a glock 19 chambered for about 2 years, never had a problem. I had a bunch of close calls, knocked it off my night table, kicked it under the bed, completely missed my holster and dropped it on the floor (yeah, i have issues). Thats not to say there arent freak (or frequent) accidents. As far as generally carrying chambered or non-chambered, I think you'll get a lot of people from both sides giving their argument. I've seen guys draw and chamber their weapon quicker then guys who were already chambered. From my perspective, it all comes down to training. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I carry a Glock 23 and never carry condition 1. I always have the mag loaded just like you. I fear that my finger may slip into the triggerguard upon holstering and have an accidental discharge. It almost happened once at the range where I was reholstering my firearm and my finger slipped into the triggerguard and as I pushed down I felt the trigger and stopped. I did not have it loaded and I'm glad I didn't. For me personally I feel more comfortable not having one in the chamber due to the lack of an external safety. Just a reminder, if you carry that way, always carry that way. Don't change it up. You may forget if you are in a self defense situation which condition you are carrying so if you always carry one way then you can train your brain to know what needs to be done to be ready to defend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffian72 548 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Carried a G29 daily since 96. Concealed or back up. Use the trigger plug, Dillon Prescion and others offer'm. Little fitted piece for behind trigger, auto pops out as finger goes to shoot mode. Had in a left hip cross draw, under jacket. Was in a highway speed crash and double roll over about 18 months ago. When released from medical center and retrieved firearm from sheriff's dept. Plug was still in place, yet popped out as usual when checked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Always carry with one in the chamber!! There's no time to be racking the slide in a stressful situation. Also, there's no way the gun can go off unless your finger pulls the trigger, which will be shielded by a proper holster. WARNING: graphic video http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 In my opinion, there is reason for concern not because the gun itself is unsafe in that condition, but because people are human. A lot depends on how disciplined you really are, not how much you think you are. My Glock is no longer my EDC because to me it makes no sense to not carry one in the chamber. The record of ADs and NDs with Glocks speaks for itself and it includes many in law enforcement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHSTC16 1 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I've taken to carrying my G-17 lately, but I never carry or keep it around with a round chambered; just with the magazine full. I'm somewhat afraid---or extremely paranoid---that the thing will have an AD. And yes, I have seen the video of the ATF guy who had a Glock go off, and I think it negatively affected me. Am I crazy, or do I have a valid concern? I'm planning on getting the gun fully checked out by a gunsmith for integrity, pretty much to ease my fears. I have 2 glocks the 21SF and the 23. I carry both with a round in the chamber and feel safe that way. I've seen the ATF video too but also there are thousands of officers and civilians that carry them everday with no problems. I have holstered and unholstered my glocks many times and never have any reason to put my finger on the trigger while doing it. When we carry a gun we need to be careful with every thing we do with it and not be careless with any aspect of using them. Alot of people avoid glocks because there is no external safety but at the same time would feel safe carrying a double action revolver.If you pull the trigger on a loaded double action revolver it goes bang but people for the most part feel they are safe to carry loaded. I think people think of a glock the same way they do a cocked single action pistol and if they touch the trigger it will go off. A glock firing mechanism is similar to the double action revolver when you pull the trigger the striker moves back to a breaking point then releases moving forward to fire the cartridge.It takes some effort to do this.s Like pulling the trigger on the revolver the hammer moves back to a point then releases to fire the cartridge. Based on the trigger pull of my 2 glocks I don't see how the triggere could be pulled accidently by holstering them or picking them up or whatever but both of mine are factory 5.5lb triggers so I can only base this on my glocks. After seeing the video you mentioned and another with I think a DEA agent whose glock went off while holstering I was hesitant to get one. But after learning how they actually work I think they are safe to carry with a round in the chamber and I think you will be ok to do the same. If your trigger has the factory 5.5lb pull and you don't pull it until you are ready to shot it you will be good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 In my opinion, there is reason for concern not because the gun itself is unsafe in that condition, but because people are human. A lot depends on how disciplined you really are, not how much you think you are. My Glock is no longer my EDC because to me it makes no sense to not carry one in the chamber. The record of ADs and NDs with Glocks speaks for itself and it includes many in law enforcement. Glock is the most common police pistol. It makes sense that they would thus have the most negligent discharges. A Glock cannot discharge unless the trigger is pulled. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I have several that I carry ALWAYS loaded, just buy a holster that won't allow you to put your finger into it....That's the key to SAFETY, the key to a Glock is your finger, what could be simpler ? It's not hard to train yourself (when it's your safety that's the concern, that ATF Agent put his finger in the holster and shoved the gun down was stupid. (as I have said many times before, you can't fix stupid). Carrying a Glock without one in the chamber means that you have to activate the slide, either by leaving the slide back (bad idea) or having to use your other hand or something else to bring the slide back and then pressing the slide release. Glock's safety's work, try this, empty the gun and then chamber check it again then activate the slide and check it one more time, NOW let the slide return (using the slide release) now try to press the trigger without activating the center trigger safety ( take both index fingers on the trigger without activating the trigger safety (I have tried it on many never been able to get ANY Glock to release the firing pin WITHOUT depressing the trigger safety). It's design won't allow it to fire. The Glock is a safe action pistol, but it can't overcome user mistakes and or bad habits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I know that it is safe to carry one in the chamber, but put me in the category of people who are scared of shooting myself. There are situations in which I do have one in tho, but normally I do not. I feel pretty confident in my ability to get one ready quick, I have had to do it before and was amazed at how quick it can be done when needed. I'm not knocking those who do, I just choose not to. Rockina, you don't have to press the slide release after racking the slide back.^ Maybe I misunderstood, carry on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I don't have a glock but my m&p and kahr are always loaded. No safeties on those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kliegl 304 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well, this is not one of those "everybody can have their opinion and be right and we'll all eat cupcakes." situations. There's a right opinion, and a wrong one. Here are some facts: 1. A Glock carried condition 3 is safer in terms of negligent discharge than one carried in...condition 2, I guess, is the ready state for a striker pistol. In other words, you cannot accidentally discharge a pistol without one in the chamber. 2. A gun, any gun, is faster to get firing when there is one in the chamber. While there may well be people that can Israeli draw and have it going in 1 second, even those people would be faster with it already chambered. So, for any given person, a chambered weapon is faster than non-chambered. 3. A good holster, and good training, virtually eliminates accidental discharges on the part of the operator. No amount of training can eliminate the risk of being attacked quickly. Those were facts, here is my logical, fact based conclusion: If you can afford a good holster and have the discipline to have good gun safety habits, and you don't live in a house with small kids who might get to it, a glock should be carried condition 2, which is round chambered, "hammer" down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I don't believe there us a condition 2 for glocks. Ther is only condition 1 and 3. Because there is no real external safety besides the trigger bar you can't block the firing pin from disengaging. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kliegl 304 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Condition 1 is hammer back and safety on. There is no hammer, there is no external safety. Condition 2 is hammer down and safety wherever. Glocks have been ruled by the ATF as double action only. Thus, the "hammer" is down for each trigger pull, making them condition 2 ready pistols. The striker pistol is somewhere in between one and two from a reality view, but, if you had to pick one, and we do, for legality, they are DAO, thus, condition 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 In my opinion, there is reason for concern not because the gun itself is unsafe in that condition, but because people are human. A lot depends on how disciplined you really are, not how much you think you are. My Glock is no longer my EDC because to me it makes no sense to not carry one in the chamber. The record of ADs and NDs with Glocks speaks for itself and it includes many in law enforcement. Glock is the most common police pistol. It makes sense that they would thus have the most negligent discharges. A Glock cannot discharge unless the trigger is pulled. It's as simple as that. Yep. Everything you said there is true. My point is that the "human" factor applies to everybody. A certain percentage of operators are figuring out a way to negligently pull that trigger no matter how much training and discipline they have had drilled into them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photoguy 202 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I really appreciate all the feedback. I think I will still get the thing checked by a smith and go from there, as far as training myself to properly carry the thing. I have a Fobus holster for it, so I don't have much worry about the trigger being accidentally pulled. I also have a Beretta 92FS. I may carry that instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kliegl 304 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thanks for clearing that up. NP. It's damn odd that we have to refer to the position of a non existant hammer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) glocks are thoroughly drop tested, so its safe to say that as long as you have a good holster, your glock will not discharge a round until you unholster and pull the trigger. i read recently how one member here had a beat up glock 17, which he chambered an empty round with a live primer, and then threw the gun at the ground repeatedly. the firing pin never struck the primer. i can totally relate to how you feel about chambering rounds in general though. personally, i will never chamber a round unless im at the shooting range and ready to fire rounds. but it might be worth adding that i do not carry. Edited March 20, 2011 by Cali_Armz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I posted this video in another thread where this question came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY&feature=player_embedded Unless you're Superman (or Bob Munden with a revolver), you're most likely not going to be able to draw, rack the slide and shoot, before an attacker is on top of you. Sure, you can probably train to get quicker than the woman in the video, but it's still never going to be quicker than drawing a gun with a round already chambered, period. There's no argument there. The ATF agent in the video pulled the trigger, because he wasn't practicing good trigger discipline. Plain and simple. A Glock is not going to go off on it's own, without the trigger being pulled. They've passed every single drop-test thrown at it, and passed. They've been dropped from airplanes and the gun didn't discharge, etc, etc, etc. All of that being said, if you're not comfortable with it, then you're not comfortable with it. I'm not sure that anything you read online is going to change your mind of that. But carrying a gun without one in the chamber is like carrying a heavy, expensive belt decoration, IMO. I'm no expert on concealed carry. I don't have my CWP yet. But, I've been wearing my G19 or G23 everyday since I got my Crossbreed Supertuck, around the house to break it in, with a round chambered, and have not even given it a second thought (bending, leaning, stretching, sitting, laying down watching movies with my girl, etc). I know if I don't pull the trigger, it's not going to go off. My Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Numerous Glocks, always with one in the pipe. A good holster and like I've stated before. "Keep your boogerhook out of the triggerguard unless you are going to fire it". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I know that it is safe to carry one in the chamber, but put me in the category of people who are scared of shooting myself. There are situations in which I do have one in tho, but normally I do not. I feel pretty confident in my ability to get one ready quick, I have had to do it before and was amazed at how quick it can be done when needed. I'm not knocking those who do, I just choose not to. Rockina, you don't have to press the slide release after racking the slide back.^ Maybe I misunderstood, carry on. With an empty magazine in the gun you will have to press the slide release to release the slide, but you are correct without a magazine the slide will not lock back. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Gaston designed it to be carried loaded with one in the chamber. I doubt that you are more knowledgeable in this area then he. Never yield to any unreasonable fear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TARE 47 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I suggest to all with this question to practice by carrying with empty chamber and a loaded mag, after a while if you haven't accidentally engaged the trigger you may feel more comfortable changing your carry condition. Until then don't endanger our or your life until you are sure of your competency. Personally I feel no more safe with a round in the chamber of a gun with a safety compared to one like a glock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Sell your G-17 to me so that I can carry it unsafely with a round in the chamber Joke As posted really recently, I carry a Glock every day with a round in the chamber and am happy to report I have yet to blow my peter off which it sits real close to. No need to rush your re-holster, that's where most issues come in to play with Glocks and NDs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 No need to rush your re-holster, that's where most issues come in to play with Glocks and NDs. Agree. Keep yer fingers out of the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have a G19 & G30 and which ever one that I'm carrying, it'll have one in the chamber. Never a problem. knock on wood Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kliegl 304 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Are you guys referring to the video of the fat black dude in the class room that shot himself? The only reason that dude shot himself was because he was a dumb fucking.....hoodlum, I guess I should say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photoguy 202 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thanks, everyone for their opinions, advice and expertise. I am feeling better about this subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I've carried a weapon for for work my entire adult life and I have my CCW and I feel safer with weapons that don't have external safeties. I carry a G22 and never think twice about it. I was a 50 gunner in Iraq and never had an issue with my M2 and it has no safety. Weapons with out safeties are perfectly safe as long as you are safe. Your brain is your safety. Keep your finger off the trigger and you'll be good. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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