GoGun - Horrible Experience

[KC913 324]

For any customers of E-TAC, E-TAC CNC INC. that have pending or unfinished work.

 

All work will be transfered to a new company and will be completed or paid off by Esteban.

 

please dont post here as this forum will not be checked after today.

 

email

 

 

 

unfinished-business-E-TACCNCINC@hawaii.rr.com

 

Horrible.

[ram123 17]

hmmm, is this a polite way for telling your customers that you screwed them?

[gunboy69 50]

Wow....That is impressive. WTF

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Motherfucking scam artist motherfuckers. Translation:

 

"We're declaring bankruptcy and ceasing to exist as a company, but, uh, you'll feel better if we give you a vague promise of personal responsibility extending beyond the existence of a legal obligation. *snicker*"

 

Lies stacked upon lies. Sue these fuckers.

[beefcakeb99 572]

Motherfucking scam artist motherfuckers. Translation:

 

"We're declaring bankruptcy and ceasing to exist as a company, but, uh, you'll feel better if we give you a vague promise of personal responsibility extending beyond the existence of a legal obligation. *snicker*"

 

Lies stacked upon lies. Sue these fuckers.

BEFORE it is too late.

[raleighsaiga 81]

If ETAC is indeed declaring bankruptcy, then customers are at the bottom of the list for claims against their assets. This usually means that they get nothing since a court will not approve a bankruptcy unless liabilities are much greater than assets in the first place. Bankruptcy means that basically you don't sue, but you file a claim with the bankruptcy court and pray there is enough money left after liquidation and paying banks and everybody else to get you something back. You must also file a claim to ensure that the court doesn't sell your gun and then give the money to other debt holders.

 

Regardless, if I had an unfinished gun with ETAC, I'd be insisting on a refund versus starting all over again with some nameless new company which may or may not receive the same amount of money to put into your gun as you paid in the first place. If Esteban doesn't have the money to refund you, he doesn't have the money to finish your gun. It's just that simple.

[Garys4598 1,065]

. . . You must also file a claim to ensure that the court doesn't sell your gun and then give the money to other debt holders.

 

Your statement above intrigues me. How can a court "sell your gun" if it is registered via its serial number, to you the original owner (who of course in this case, is located in another state, and therefore of course that firearm is also registered in that state)? The physical firearm itself in this case, was never an "asset" of the company.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Gary

[raleighsaiga 81]

. . . You must also file a claim to ensure that the court doesn't sell your gun and then give the money to other debt holders.

 

You're statement above intrigues me. How can a court "sell your gun" if it is registered via its serial number, to you the original owner (who of course in this case, is located in another state, and therefore of course that firearm is also registered in that state)? The physical firearm itself in this case, was never an "asset" of the company.

 

Bankruptcy courts don't audit everything a business claims as their assets. The court only manages the process and does not manage the details. It is up to the creditors and customers to make a claim on the assets held by the business.

 

Yes, ETAC should not include customer-supplied guns as assets, but that won't keep them from doing it (purposely or not). So, if a bankrupt business says "these are our assets" and nobody else lays claim to them, then they absolutely could get sold to pay off the creditors.

 

To be clear, I do not know one way or another what Esteban is doing. His restructuring might not involve the bankruptcy courts at all, for all anybody here knows. However, I would absolutely stay on top of this, not accepting the promise that unfinished work is somehow going to get finished by another company for whatever reason.

[KC913 324]

So, what's to stop every customer involved from reporting a stolen firearm and fraud and bringing a shitstorm down on them?

[raleighsaiga 81]

So, what's to stop every customer involved from reporting a stolen firearm and fraud and bringing a shitstorm down on them?

 

You/they probably will not get the results you expect this way. Evidence gets locked away for a long time, so even if you could get a magistrate to file criminal charges against Esteban (unlikely), you'd delay getting your gun and/or a refund more than filing a complaint with the AG's office or filing a claim in civil or bankruptcy court. In any case, every time Esteban posts that he will do something vague to "make things right," he buys a little time with these types of proceedings.

 

More to your point, though, it would indeed be helpful if forum members coordinated their response to this new development, whatever that may be. If one customer call the AG, another calls the ATF, another tries to sue, and another just sucks his thumb, nothing will happen. If everyone gets behind one course (or courses) of action, I think you'd see results much, much more quickly.

 

I know I got my gun, but it took a lot of work on my part, including the very real threat of a chargeback. The others who have recently posted they finally received their guns also took similar drastic steps. Just chilling out and letting him get his job done will not work with Esteban, as those still affected hopefully know by now.

 

Funny enough, he emailed me a month ago to let me know that he finally got his "accounting program up" so he could order the 3 Surefire magazines that were supposed to come with my gun (fitted and function checked). He then proceeded to pressure me into posting a positive review of my gun without mentioning anything about how screwed up the whole process was. "I don't want a write up of the business, just a review on the shotgun that Craig built for you."

 

It is really, really sad, but I've come to the conclusion that Esteban has a pathologically warped sense of reality. He honestly doesn't see what all the fuss is about.

 

Oh, and I'm still waiting on those mags that should've been ordered when I paid for them in December. If he can't get me $125 worth of readily available magazines in the 4 weeks since he said he was going to finally order them, what makes you think he's going to get these unfinished/unstarted guns done? This is an enormous train wreck in process, and the sooner you get off the train, the less damage you will suffer.

[physicsnerd 139]

I wonder if this is the company to which they're being transferred: http://www.red-letter-industries.com/

That was at the bottom of the GoGun webpage. I couldn't find anything out from it as the only active link is the one to send an email about ordering a conversion.

[clifton 354]

Looks to be the New company..

[raleighsaiga 81]

That is Craig's new company, but the "Esteban Customs" link suggests a much stronger tie with Esteban than was the original idea. When I first spoke with Craig about this, I was very hopeful that he could put out the guns that people like without the drama that resulted from how Esteban ran ETAC. My final conversation with him (ever) leaves this in doubt. On the one hand, he had a firm grasp of what business practices got Esteban into trouble and knew what needed to be done to avoid those pitfalls. On the other hand, some of his comments sounded like echoes of Esteban's attitude toward his customers.

 

You have to ask, though. How is Craig getting the money to finish Esteban's guns? Is it all up front? Will it be trickled in as Esteban can swing the payments? If my gun were still tied up in this, I'd have a LOT of questions about the process, and I would demand firm completion dates in writing.

[ck43001 12]

Red Letter Industries is my conversion company.

 

It is not Jammer's company and he does not run it. The link at the bottom of the E-Tac/Gogun webpage is a favor that Jammer did for me. The "Esteban Custom" link on the RLI page was a return favor that I did for Jammer. He asked me to remove it several weeks ago because he didn't want my company to be affected by having his name on it. It's been removed and will no longer be there when the website is updated.

 

RLI does not have any agreement with Jammer to finish the handful of old E-Tac conversion jobs he has remaining. As Jammer said in his statement, he's going to finish those conversions or offer refunds, personally. As far as all that goes though, I know as much about it as you do, so don't quote me.

 

I have not been an employee of E-Tac for some time. As I've mentioned on the forum before, Esteban has been my friend for over 20 years now. So, I help him out whenever I can; as was the case with Raleigh Saiga's gun.

 

If you have an order with E-Tac, your best bet is to contact Esteban directly.

 

Thanks

Craig

[chevyman097 2,579]

Red Letter Industries is my conversion company.

 

 

Who are you? Just curious.

[Garys4598 1,065]

Red Letter Industries is my conversion company.

 

 

Who are you? Just curious.

ck43001 is Craig Kashiwai. Precisely as he stated in his reply post, he use to work at E-Tac CNC/GoGun for Esteban. . . but allegedly he's now in charge of this Red Letter Industries (RLI) enterprise. Naturally, RLI is located in Hawaii as well.

 

~Gary

Edited May 30, 2011 by Gary

[HarvKY 72]

IMO it does not inspire a great amount of confidence that this newest incarnation of company name(RLI) has "Esteban Custom" prominantly displayed at the top of the Red Letter Industries new website

 

If there werent a multitude of company names in the past, this wouldnt be such a question.

 

Harv

[chevyman097 2,579]

Red Letter Industries is my conversion company.

 

 

Who are you? Just curious.

ck43001 is Craig Kashiwai. Precisely as he stated in his reply post, he use to work at E-Tac CNC/GoGun for Esteban. . . but allegedly he's now in charge of this Red Letter Industries (RLI) enterprise. Naturally, RLI is located in Hawaii as well.

 

~Gary

 

Hrm aight, was just wondering. Seems lately ive seen a few with business member tags but no direct links or indications of their business. Kinda leaves one wondering.

 

hrm maybe i should be a business member too...the orange is all purdy.

[YOT 3,743]

Red Letter Industries is my conversion company.

 

 

Who are you? Just curious.

ck43001 is Craig Kashiwai. Precisely as he stated in his reply post, he use to work at E-Tac CNC/GoGun for Esteban. . . but allegedly he's now in charge of this Red Letter Industries (RLI) enterprise. Naturally, RLI is located in Hawaii as well.

 

~Gary

 

Hrm aight, was just wondering. Seems lately ive seen a few with business member tags but no direct links or indications of their business. Kinda leaves one wondering.

 

hrm maybe i should be a business member too...the orange is all purdy.

 

Here's a link, but it sure doesn't inspire confidence.... http://red-letter-industries.com/

Edited June 2, 2011 by Yeoldetool

[Garys4598 1,065]

That is Craig's new company, but the "Esteban Customs" link suggests a much stronger tie with Esteban than was the original idea. When I first spoke with Craig about this, I was very hopeful that he could put out the guns that people like without the drama that resulted from how Esteban ran ETAC. My final conversation with him (ever) leaves this in doubt. On the one hand, he had a firm grasp of what business practices got Esteban into trouble and knew what needed to be done to avoid those pitfalls. On the other hand, some of his comments sounded like echoes of Esteban's attitude toward his customers. . .

 

(Sorry for digging-up this old thread, but. . .)

 

OMG Raleigh Saiga!!! You are so totally spot-on with the statement you provided above! After very recently being involved in a Saiga conversion job order with Craig Kashiwai that took six months to complete, and previously having 2 1/2 years of experiencing nothing but misery from Cem Esteban. . . I can readily (and I feel very accurately) convey that the two gentlemen are very much alike, specifically with how they speak to and manipulate their customers. Hell, their voices even sound almost identical on the telephone (no joke).

 

Such was my experience anyway.