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GoGun - Horrible Experience

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UPDATE...

 

Esteban has contacted me and things are moving in the right direction. I am still waiting to see how this ends up, but he says he is going to make this right. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

---------------------------------------

My other thread somehow disappeared. Craig called and offered to refund my money. Esteban then left a message saying that he wanted to finish the build. I left a message last week saying I want a refund due to the horrible process and lack of communication. They also should have let me know that they were not going to build guns starting the week after I put my order in. Still no communication back from Esteban and no refund.

 

This has to be one of the most disappointing experiences I have ever had. Why claim you are a real company if you don;t have time to actually treat customers like customers.

Edited by bluebear
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My other thread somehow disappeared. Craig called and offered to refund my money. Esteban then left a message saying that he wanted to finish the build. I left a message last week saying I want a refund due to the horrible process and lack of communication. They also should have let me know that they were not going to build guns starting the week after I put my order in. Still no communication back from Esteban and no refund.

 

This has to be one of the most disappointing experiences I have ever had. Why claim you are a real company if you don;t have time to actually treat customers like customers.

I agree I would advise that no one gives Etac directly any money for anything. They will not return your emails or phone calls. It is very unprofessional for them to handle their business this way.

I paid for an order over 2 months ago and they refuse to send me the order or my money back. They have stopped all communications with over 12 emails and phone calls I have sent. This should be a warning to everyone including all vendors.

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My other thread somehow disappeared. Craig called and offered to refund my money. Esteban then left a message saying that he wanted to finish the build. I left a message last week saying I want a refund due to the horrible process and lack of communication. They also should have let me know that they were not going to build guns starting the week after I put my order in. Still no communication back from Esteban and no refund.

 

This has to be one of the most disappointing experiences I have ever had. Why claim you are a real company if you don;t have time to actually treat customers like customers.

I agree I would advise that no one gives Etac directly any money for anything. They will not return your emails or phone calls. It is very unprofessional for them to handle their business this way.

I paid for an order over 2 months ago and they refuse to send me the order or my money back. They have stopped all communications with over 12 emails and phone calls I have sent. This should be a warning to everyone including all vendors.

It's good to hear this from a reputable vendor here. When a customer says it, it seems to be categorized as "whining". This kind of Bullshit has been going on for far too long from Etac and sometimes I wonder what exactly it takes for a vendor to be banned from here.

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I'm so fed up with Etac jerking people around, and they haven't even ever ripped me off. Its just messed up that they come on here touting their silly little products they churn out on the CNC machine (which are all pretty gimmicky, IMO), all the while soliciting services to people, and not delivering. No wonder they stay isolated out on the islands, its more difficult for people to pay them a visit.

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You're not the only one waiting, I was a part of that "forum lottery" or whatever they did 2 years ago. Won my spot, knew when they said they were hoping to have the guns ready by the end of that year that it wasn't going to happen, but I was okay with that. Figured it might take about a year or so... but now I'm just 2-3 months away from 2 years since I sent payment in full. No replies lately, no phone calls, got one a few months ago stating they were painting, never heard anything back. My gun has been waiting on a "rail" for as long as I can remember. I requested a refund a while ago, but was told they wanted to make it right, and that they would have it done.... obviously I agreed, that I still wanted it, and decided to keep waiting.

 

Pretty damned stupid mistake on my part, but figured they had a reputation for quality so it would be worth it. Two years later I'm still waiting to see that quality haha. Not sure what my options will be but once it hits the 2 year mark I guess I'll be on a quest to get my money back somehow, out almost $2500.

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...but now I'm just 2-3 months away from 2 years since I sent payment in full...almost $2500.

 

I really try not to comment about other vendors, but WTF.

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He has not contacted me and offered to "make it right" on the the money he took. He will not return any of my communications.

It is very sad he seems to not give a shit about anyone.

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at least their cinematography is better than their customer service!

 

 

err.. maybe not.

Edited by volkov

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Seems to be quite the trend from them. Makc should just drop them as a business member. I've heard more negatives than positives.

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I made the mistake of having them do my s12 conversion and I've wasted allot of time and money. If you want to get raped go with Etac.

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I wonder why people even still send them money.

 

Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section, giving E-TAC a deceptively good appearance on what is the most influencial source of Saiga information on the net. I've never seen that before anywhere, so when I did my due diligence, I saw great guns and happy people in the E-TAC section, where I'd expect to find any negative reviews, as well. The search function here did turn up ONE unhappy thread about delivery delays, but I bought the story about the "old" versus "new" orders since I had seen that kind of restructuring before.

 

Anyway, I got out by sheer luck with a nice gun. It wasn't exactly what I ordered, nor do I have all that I paid for, but it is a nice gun, and it only took 8 weeks. Yep, you read that right. I paid my deposit the last week of December 2010 and got my gun on February 25th. The only reason that happened is that Craig, the actual gunsmith at E-TAC, quit, but decided to come in an finish my gun UNPAID so he could get an example gun for his new business. In other words, Esteban has all the money, but Craig did all the work, and got paid for only half of it.

 

I will say that there were two moments where I caught a glimpse of why Esteban was so sought after years ago. He caught a bend in the front rail that Craig didn't notice. He also realized that the mini-rail Craig was doing (because Esteban ran out of full rails...) was going to get in the way of the Galil handle that was already finished, and he suggested that Craig upgrade my build to a left side charging handle for free. Really, I just don't get how a guy who has his extreme attention to detail about the guns themselves is so piss poor with all the other details of running a business. I guess it is an artist mentality.

 

Anyway, Esteban has indeed gotten out of the conversion business, and Craig is getting set up to do his own thing, knowing EXACTLY how Esteban got in trouble, versus how well Tromix is doing. First, only take the orders you can complete in a reasonable amount of time. Second, do NOT spend the deposits on anything but the parts for the gun you are about to build. Third, communicate, communicate, communicate. If there is a problem, don't assume the customer is going to like your solution to it.

 

I understand that another forum member filed a claim with PayPal, which means that they probably drained every cent out of E-TACs business account. If you are owed either money or product, contact PayPal or your credit card company (if your charge was within their chargeback period). I don't see E-TAC becoming financially solvent again.

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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section, giving E-TAC a deceptively good appearance on what is the most influencial source of Saiga information on the net. I've never seen that before anywhere, so when I did my due diligence, I saw great guns and happy people in the E-TAC section, where I'd expect to find any negative reviews, as well. The search function here did turn up ONE unhappy thread about delivery delays, but I bought the story about the "old" versus "new" orders since I had seen that kind of restructuring before.

 

Which is exactly why negative reviews should be posted outside of business forums, like this one is. :up:

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Dude I am SOOOOOO fucking sick of seeing people on this forum dogged by these guys. I realize they are trying BUT DAMMIT I got buddies on this forum that have been waiting FOR ONE RIFLE to be converted FOR OVER TWO YEARS, WHILE I HAVE HAD Red Jacket do my .223 and Tac 47 about to be done with my 12 any day now....it's fucking sad. Talent only goes so far without organization.

 

(let me emphasis, I got no skin in the game, just my buddies)

Edited by Bean.223
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Dude I am SOOOOOO fucking sick of seeing people on this forum dogged by these guys. I realize they are trying BUT DAMMIT I got buddies on this forum that have been waiting FOR ONE RIFLE to be converted FOR OVER TWO YEARS, WHILE I HAVE HAD Red Jacket do my .223 and Tac 47 about to be done with my 12 any day now....it's fucking sad. Talent only goes so far without organization.

 

(let me emphasis, I got no skin in the game, just my buddies)

 

Since I'm close to Tac47, I get to see their guns.

They do great work.

They are also now getting into the AR game.

Post some pics when you get it back.

Edited by Jetmech
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When I was researching my saiga purchase in the summer of 09 I came across threads on this board about how people had been waiting almost 2 years for their guns that had been paid for but not delivered. There was also a lot of information about the delays and needless, or is that endless, excuses. Personally I wouldn't buy a twister puck or recomend one to anyone because I wouldn't do business with Estaban or Jammer or any of those assholes.

 

Greg I see you have discounted the piss out of those twister pucks... Maybe you should remove them from your site and instead give them away to anyone who spends more then "X" number of dollars at CSS. ...and stop promoting that assholes stuff.

Edited by TO THE FLOOR

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Yeah I got royally screwed on this deal, first time, and last time, I ever buy an expensive gun online. As I won't forget this experience ever. I guess I'll be contacting an attorney here soon, not that I have any course of action, but I'll be happy spending money on them just to cost these assholes money. And since their website is gone I guess I need to keep a close eye out for these individuals and look for their new business whenever that gets setup under a third or fourth name.

 

 

And maybe since I sent them a US Postal Service money order, since they requested payment in full in order for me to even get my order in.. I can get some sort of fraudulent claim against them, who knows. But naturally, this being close to two years ago... I'm pretty sure he knows he screwed people and doesn't care. I just like that they did a special "forum lottery" at a time when people were looking for badly for conversions in order to screw people.

 

Contacted the better business beurea today and filed a complaint, will see a lawyer sometime over the next month. Just lol at having to do this. This was my last contact with ole Cem...

 

3/6/10

 

John,

 

We are looking to finishing your gun within this month.

 

Aloha Cem Esteban

E-TAC CNC Inc.

Edited by Wotan1105
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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section,

 

We "allow it?"... please.. It's THEIR SECTION! NOT OURS! they paid for it... This is why we have a feedback section.. as you see the thread has been untouched by staff.

(I suppose we are manipulating or conspiring SOMEHOW... after all, it's the internet!!!)

 

It's like saying applebees can't remove a sign that says applebees sucks on their own property.

 

Haters gonna hate...

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And don't forget to contact ATF...He has your money and has stolen your gun.

 

Can I do that? I didn't send him my gun for a conversion, I opted for the "buy new" from them and have them modify it. So not sure where that is at, technically, they should have one there with my name on it. Only thing I failed to provide was FFL info as I thought I'd just wait til they told me it was ready to ship. They never sent me anything with a serial # on it where I can say "hey that's my gun!"

Edited by Wotan1105

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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section,

 

We "allow it?"... please.. It's THEIR SECTION! NOT OURS! they paid for it... This is why we have a feedback section.. as you see the thread has been untouched by staff.

(I suppose we are manipulating or conspiring SOMEHOW... after all, it's the internet!!!)

 

It's like saying applebees can't remove a sign that says applebees sucks on their own property.

 

Haters gonna hate...

With all due respect, this is just lame. They are only here, in their section, treating people like dirt, because they are allowed to be. Maybe not by you personally, but allowed nevertheless. This is a slap in the face to all the other reputable vendors here as well as people who come here looking to spend their money with reputable vendors. I don't think this site is served well by letting even one business drag it's reputation down.

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If you keep the complaints in the feedback section they can't do anything about it. Definately will help to inform people. You are right about the reputation thing though. It does kind of look bad having them onboard. Just try to keep new members informed I guess, they will pull out on their own if customers wise up and their sales drop.

 

Seems like they're the Lancaster of saiga-12s

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With all due respect, this is just lame. They are only here, in their section, treating people like dirt, because they are allowed to be. Maybe not by you personally, but allowed nevertheless. This is a slap in the face to all the other reputable vendors here as well as people who come here looking to spend their money with reputable vendors. I don't think this site is served well by letting even one business drag it's reputation down.

 

Either way, that decision is left to ADMIN.. not the mods... until then, I WILL continue to do my job as per my instructions.

People HAVE a place to leave feedback. you are looking at it now.

I would hope people would use SEARCH prior to making a decision to buy a converted rifle.

 

"Caveat Emptor"

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Granted things may have changed since 09 but even before I ordered they had a reputation of taking their sweet time. BUT if you ever did manage to get one from Esteban, that it was very high quality. So I knew that going in. And I was prepared to wait a year or so from the get go. But my patience has finally worn thin and can't get any answers so it seems I've about run out of options. Continue waiting, but that hasn't worked for me so far. I sure do feel fucking stupid ordering from them now tho.

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And don't forget to contact ATF...He has your money and has stolen your gun.

 

Can I do that? I didn't send him my gun for a conversion, I opted for the "buy new" from them and have them modify it. So not sure where that is at, technically, they should have one there with my name on it. Only thing I failed to provide was FFL info as I thought I'd just wait til they told me it was ready to ship. They never sent me anything with a serial # on it where I can say "hey that's my gun!"

 

I don't know if it will go anywhere but... who knows maybe some of his other unhappy customers have called about him. The idea was a spin-off of a conversation I had yesterday. One of my friends bought a gun on GB, it's been over a month. and the FFL paperwork was sent and the money was sent the first day. Guy has had lots of excuses. Long and short is I asked another friend who is a mod on the GB forum and that was one of his suggestions. Good luck

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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section,

 

We "allow it?"... please.. It's THEIR SECTION! NOT OURS! they paid for it... This is why we have a feedback section.. as you see the thread has been untouched by staff.

(I suppose we are manipulating or conspiring SOMEHOW... after all, it's the internet!!!)

 

It's like saying applebees can't remove a sign that says applebees sucks on their own property.

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

Jeez, man. Take a breath.

 

I guess it is somewhere in the TOS that business owners have actually paid for these sections and have this control, but honestly, name one other forum set up this way. This is not a physical piece of land. This is an internet forum. Your rules are more like saying Applebees can block a news article about them in the restaurant section stating that they failed a health inspection because they buy ads in the newspaper. The only allowable place for such information would be limited to the editorial page, to continue the analogy.

 

I sure have not seen your way of business before, so I didn't know to be mindful of this possibility until it was much too late. It works for you, and that's fine, but it is not HATE to point out that someone coming in from outside sorting through the great information here will not necessarily catch that distinction. You are really being too sensitive about this.

 

Also, this feedback forum is not organized in any way, so yes, you must rely upon your search-fu to get what you want. I'm hardly incompetent when it comes to search, and the clues that were there when I was making my decision were hidden under a lot of Esteban-controlled content that, again, was not obvious to me was actually "cleaned" of all negative feedback by Esteban himself.

 

Lastly, it is obvious that forum members themselves prefer to vent their frustrations directly under the specific section of the business member in question. That is why we keep seeing negative comments in those areas one day, only to have them removed another (but truly, E-TAC is the worst about this). It is just how people think and organize their own posts.

 

This is your sandbox, and we are guests. You can certainly set the rules however you want, but it does indeed impede the sharing of accurate information regarding not only the bad things that business members do, but also the good things that NON-business members do. It takes a while on this forum before you realize that is the way things are.

Edited by Raleigh Saiga
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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section,

 

We "allow it?"... please.. It's THEIR SECTION! NOT OURS! they paid for it... This is why we have a feedback section.. as you see the thread has been untouched by staff.

(I suppose we are manipulating or conspiring SOMEHOW... after all, it's the internet!!!)

 

It's like saying applebees can't remove a sign that says applebees sucks on their own property.

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

Jeez, man. Take a breath.

 

I guess it is somewhere in the TOS that business owners have actually paid for these sections and have this control, but honestly, name one other forum set up this way. This is not a physical piece of land. This is an internet forum. Your rules are more like saying Applebees can block a news article about them in the restaurant section stating that they failed a health inspection because they buy ads in the newspaper. The only allowable place for such information would be limited to the editorial page, to continue the analogy. We are not any other forum.. Certainly, you can not talk smack on their add space in the paper... You are more than welcome to open your own buisness section here to bash Etac.

I sure have not seen your way of business before, so I didn't know to be mindful of this possibility until it was much too late. It works for you, and that's fine, but it is not HATE to point out that someone coming in from outside sorting through the great information here will not necessarily catch that distinction. You are really being too sensitive about this.

 

Also, this feedback forum is not organized in any way, so yes, you must rely upon your search-fu to get what you want. I'm hardly incompetent when it comes to search, and the clues that were there when I was making my decision were hidden under a lot of Esteban-controlled content that, again, was not obvious to me was actually "cleaned" of all negative feedback by Esteban himself. Again. HIS Section.

 

Lastly, it is obvious that forum members themselves prefer to vent their frustrations directly under the specific section of the business member in question. That is why we keep seeing negative comments in those areas one day, only to have them removed another (but truly, E-TAC is the worst about this). It is just how people think and organize their own posts.

 

This is your sandbox, and we are guests. You can certainly set the rules however you want, but it does indeed impede the sharing of accurate information regarding not only the bad things that business members do, but also the good things that NON-business members do. It takes a while on this forum before you realize that is the way things are.

 

It is NOT my sandbox.. I'm here of my own free will..there is no paychek or income.. just volunteers. just like you...

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Because this forum allows business members to delete negative comments from their section,

 

We "allow it?"... please.. It's THEIR SECTION! NOT OURS! they paid for it... This is why we have a feedback section.. as you see the thread has been untouched by staff.

(I suppose we are manipulating or conspiring SOMEHOW... after all, it's the internet!!!)

 

It's like saying applebees can't remove a sign that says applebees sucks on their own property.

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

Your rules are more like saying Applebees can block a news article about them in the restaurant section stating that they failed a health inspection because they buy ads in the newspaper. The only allowable place for such information would be limited to the editorial page, to continue the analogy.

 

 

I think its more like saying the newspaper can't put anti applebees stuff in their own add space- but are free to put it anywhere else in the newspaper. You have to think of the vender subforums as what they are- a place to advertise, anounce new products, and answer questions.. Not many people want to pay for a section that's used to humiliate them. I don't like E-tac, but just because in this one case it seems like it would be good to stop letting venders mod their sections doesn't mean it would be. For example, if you didn't let them mod it anyone could make shill accounts and trash their subforums that they are paying for (and not just for etac, good venders too; some customers suck).

 

I think having E-tac onboard is a bad thing for the forum, but to start attacking the privaleges of all venders because one sucks is probably not the best solution. A better structured feedback forum probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally I wish they'd just get kicked out so people could trust that any vender on this forum was a good one. They're consistently horrible.

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