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2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD


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#1 Mike Davidson

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 09:13 PM

I wanted to let everyone know that MD Arms is now offering 2 different piston designs for the Saiga shotguns.

Stainless Saiga Piston, $10 Click here for details.

Saiga Booster Piston, $16 Click here for details.


Review and ask questions...
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#2 Snoofer Inc.

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 09:32 PM

Sweet.

Love the prices.
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#3 Mike Davidson

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 09:37 PM

The pics are huge on the site!!! I thought I took smaller ones. We'll resize them tomorrow.

Stainless

Posted Image




Booster

Posted Image

#4 physicsnerd

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:00 PM

Mike, they certainly do look nice. I read the descriptions on your website and was curious if the main difference between the two is the coating on the booster plug? Is there a subtle difference between the dish profiles? Thanks!
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#5 superdrag67

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:33 PM

Looks familiar...
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#6 King of the Hill

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:35 PM

My questions are:
Can you briefly explain the way the booster increases cycling power?
Could you ease the concern some may have about it causing increased wear to the inside of the GB?
Thank you for the new products. I will be getting one
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#7 HunterOfSkulls

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:53 PM

Those look very slick, I think I'm going to have to have one.


#8 Bridis

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 11:01 PM

Looks cool. Wish I needed one.

Thanks Mike.

#9 AZ-DAVE-IZ109

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 11:58 PM

Why must you make everything so affordable? Now if you can just make a metal tri-rail for the S12 and sell it for $20 LOL. I will be getting me one of these, or possibly both.
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#10 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 12:11 AM

Looks familiar...

No it doesn't.
There's an important difference.
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#11 Azrial

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 02:09 AM

I am wondering if the Booster model will be capable of overcoming the difference I anticipate if I take my stock barrel back to 18.25 inch, counting the muzzle brake... :unsure:

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#12 nattyiceking

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 02:31 AM

PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.


I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?
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#13 Guns Are Great

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 03:48 AM

I second that question! Mine also does the fte/ftfd crap when stock not braced and hip fired :unsure: with the factory puc and the CSS puc today x1 or 2.
It has 4 ports all visible and open on 19" gun. polished bolt and FCG, MDArms V-Plug setting 5, and tromix large knurled charging handle, shooting federal bulk 3 dram 7.5 shot.

In theory if the flat side turned to ports no different than normal puc unless longer?

If the concave side is towards the ports and puc is longer and/or same length as fact puc, I can see that the length = smaller rigid container same gas volume from shells = more driving power to the piston via the puc.

And the concave area properly shaped should in theory also direct gas towards the center of the puc instead of sides rolling it backwards resulting in possibly more driving force or efficiency from the puc to bcg piston?

so if the pucs are identical except the coating how does the coaing make one so much better? specifics please. and which direction will the puc install?

and if the tail or nipple faces the ports what benefit is it over a true bowl? does it just increase laminar flow or smooth directional roll of the the gas rearward which increases power?? B/C Laminar flow is much better than Turbulent flow of gasses/liquids = Venturi effect and/orThe Bernulli Principle and/or Poiseulle's Law??? you get the point.

if the pucs are identical except coating then we are back to why coating makes it special???

Boyle's law, Charles's law, and Gay-Lussac's law form the combined gas law. The three gas laws in combination with Avogadro's law Generalize the Ideal gas law .
Examples
  • Change of Pressure in a Syringe w/o vent push plunger
  • The popping of a Balloon
  • Increase in size of bubbles as they rise to the surface
  • Death of deep sea creatures due to change in pressure.
  • Popping of ears at high altitude
  • heated gas driven Saiga 12 puc/piston or any other gas driven semi/full auto shotgun?????
  • putting gas tanks i.e. O2, Nitrous, etc... in a hot room from a cold room= gas heats expands and tank remains same size = increase pressure in tank.EquationThe mathematical equation for Boyle's law is:

    Posted Image
where:

p denotes the pressure of the system.V denotes the volume of the gas.k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.



the other gas laws are basically just rearranging variables, sort of involving temp, volume, pressure, container etc....
I've not noticed any difference when shooting drums or mags with hip fire fte, but may not be paying attn to when prob occurs? mags or drums?

quote] PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your more driving power? I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?


Edited by Guns Are Great, 22 March 2011 - 04:48 AM.


#14 Guns Are Great

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 04:03 AM

and no i'm not drunk! I just read folks saying stuff like "oh this puc really helps" or that "pucs are just ways to screw you out of money or just for 922r compliance?" I'm not trying to do anything but get some specifcs and facts to understand how this works to improve cycling before dropping 26 bucks plus shipping? thats money I can spend on one of his drums or a muzzle brake (74 style dinzag or polychoke css) you know! but if it truly helps and is guarunteed, then I may just get me one of each!!

I second that question! Mine also does the fte/ftfd crap when stock not braced and hip fired :unsure: with the factory puc and the CSS puc today x1 or 2.
It has 4 ports all visible and open on 19" gun. polished bolt and FCG, MDArms V-Plug setting 5, and tromix large knurled charging handle, shooting federal bulk 3 dram 7.5 shot.

In theory if the flat side turned to ports no different than normal puc unless longer?

If the concave side is towards the ports and puc is longer and/or same length as fact puc, I can see that the length = smaller rigid container same gas volume from shells = more driving power to the piston via the puc.

And the concave area properly shaped should in theory also direct gas towards the center of the puc instead of sides rolling it backwards resulting in possibly more driving force or efficiency from the puc to bcg piston?

so if the pucs are identical except the coating how does the coaing make one so much better? specifics please. and which direction will the puc install?

and if the tail or nipple faces the ports what benefit is it over a true bowl? does it just increase laminar flow or smooth directional roll of the the gas rearward which increases power?? B/C Laminar flow is much better than Turbulent flow of gasses = The Bernulli Principle and/or Poiseulle's Law?

if the pucs are identical then we are back to why coating makes it special???

Boyle's law, Charles's law, and Gay-Lussac's law form the combined gas law. The three gas laws in combination with Avogadro's law Generalize the Ideal gas law .
Examples

  • Change of Pressure in a Syringe w/o vent push plunger
  • The popping of a Balloon
  • Increase in size of bubbles as they rise to the surface
  • Death of deep sea creatures due to change in pressure.
  • Popping of ears at high altitude
  • heated gas driven Saiga 12 puc/piston or any other gas driven semi/full auto shotgun?????
  • putting gas tanks i.e. O2, Nitrous, etc... in a hot room from a cold room= gas heats expands and tank remains same size = increase pressure in tank.EquationThe mathematical equation for Boyle's law is:

    Posted Image
where:

p denotes the pressure of the system.V denotes the volume of the gas.k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.



the other gas laws are basically just rearraning variables, sort of.


quote] PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your more driving power? I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?



#15 Tombs

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 04:25 AM

Man, I just woke up to see this released and was trying to wipe the goop out of my eyes to see to type in my payment info!

Awesome deal Mike!
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#16 King of the Hill

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 08:00 AM

Guns are great: I would say it is definatly installed with the concave side facing the muzzel with the flat side facing the reciever.
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#17 jaymizzlebot

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 09:18 AM

Would the weight of the puck make a difference? If the puck is lighter, would it be pushed around by the gases more effectively? The factory puck is pretty heavy.

(ಠ_ಠ)


#18 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 09:42 AM

Mike, they certainly do look nice. I read the descriptions on your website and was curious if the main difference between the two is the coating on the booster plug? Is there a subtle difference between the dish profiles? Thanks!

The profiles are exactly the same. I will explain the working difference of the 2 pistons in a following post.

#19 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 09:57 AM

Looks familiar...

It may look similar due to the dished ring but let me point something out. First the stainless one isn't advertised as a reliability increaser where as the other similar one from others are...

Also our design intent is quite different. The KA puck is advertised that the dish is to increase the gas explosion in the chamber. I couldn't disagree more. The increase in gas chamber volume isn't a plus, it's a negative. It is also stated that the button in the middle is to help burn up fouling. It doesn't in my opinion to any measurable degree.

We have a somewhat similar dished ring, which I'll add is shallower and miore narrow in comparison. This minimizes volume increase to the gas chamber. Unlike the others which have flat angular surfaces in the dish our is a nice radius to help direct much more smoothly and better put the directed gas into the path to disrupt gas loss. The real effect from the dished ring is it disrupts gas flow past the piston during pressurization. Once pressurized it doesn't do jack... Increased surface area is not a factor. Though the surface area is greater the gas doesn't work like that in this application. When calculating surface area and gas pressure the surface should be caluclated in 2d in this aspect. So there for the working surface area is essentially the same. If you notice AK rifles have this concave feature in the piston for the same reasons we put it in our shotgun piston. The only reason there is a button in the middle of ours is because the factory gas plug needs this surface. Without it the piston could seal off against the gas plug when using high brass ammo. The factory gas plug has a stand off on the front of it to prevent this with use with the factory piston. If we made the piston without the button the stand off on the factory gas plug would have nothing to touch.

#20 nattyiceking

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:02 AM

PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.


I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?


Mike, If you aren't too busy would you mind addressing what I posted earlier?

:smoke:
The greatest hypnotist on the planet earth is an oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.
The greatest form of control is when you think you're free, when you're being fundamentally manipulated and dictated to. One form of dictatorship is being in a prison cell and you can see the bars and touch them. The other one is sitting in a prison cell but you can't see the bars, but you think you're free.
What the human race is suffering from is mass hypnosis. We are being hypnotized by people like this: Newsreaders, politicians, teachers and lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is going on and what's really going on is absolutely enormous.

#21 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:09 AM

My questions are:
Can you briefly explain the way the booster increases cycling power?
Could you ease the concern some may have about it causing increased wear to the inside of the GB?
Thank you for the new products. I will be getting one

First let me easy your concerns of damage... A couple years ago I designed a piston that would let a gun missing a gas port cycle low brass ammo. It worked so good in fact that out of a 4 port gun I could cycle low brass using a gunfixer plug that was sitting in a posistion equvielt to the 1 setting on the V-Plug. This is almost completely shut off! I quickly realized that this was not a good piston to release to the public. Not because it didn't have great potential to fixing certain peoples problems, but because it would put many pistons into circulation that if not properly used would damage guns. I knew that despite efforts to educate on proper use the info would be lost, forgoten or not passed along when people sold their guns... I wouldn't release a product that I felt could be a major wear factor. Despite the fact that I would have made tens of thousands of dollars from it by now if I had released it then. At MD Arms it isn't all about the money. If it were I would have a website full of junk with jacked up claims... :lolol:

As far as the boosters finish, it isn't as hard as hard chrome so it would actually wear your chamber less than the factory piston. The factory pistons have a coating of hard chrome on the outer diameter. Hard chrome is very hard! The hard chrome on the factory piston I think is only there to prevent corrosion on the diameter as that would not be good at all. The front and back of the factory aren't covered and the do rust. I'm sure many of you have seen this rust... If you notice most after market piston makers are using stainless steel. This prevents the need for hard chrome. I would recommend avioding after market pistons that aren't made out of stainless steel if they don't have a durable corrosion protection finish on the diameter.

I will explain the booster pistons working feature below in another post.

#22 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:10 AM

Why must you make everything so affordable? Now if you can just make a metal tri-rail for the S12 and sell it for $20 LOL. I will be getting me one of these, or possibly both.

We do have rail systems in the works... :smoke:

#23 Alpha Kilo

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:15 AM

Can someone explain the difference between the two new pucks so that a dumbass can understand the difference between the two?
Thanks in advance.

#24 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:20 AM

I am wondering if the Booster model will be capable of overcoming the difference I anticipate if I take my stock barrel back to 18.25 inch, counting the muzzle brake... :unsure:

I haven't tested this yet. I did test in a 24 inch cut to 19 inches and it couldn't touch the deficencey there. It is hard to say. I will put it on my list to test. If you want to give it a try I can send you a sample.

#25 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:31 AM

PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.


I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

It most definately will. If you can fire from the shoulder with the factory no problem it will definately make your gun fire from the hip no problem with the booster piston. I will dig out some test results and post them. But in brief one new from the box 19inch 3 portgun that had a few ftes from a fully loaded MD-20 with Federal bulk pack from the shoulder would cycle very losely held from the hip using whinchest bulk and even a low recoil remington that was only 2 3/4 dram (instead of the bulk pack 3 dram). That exact ammo was Remington Permier STS Light Target 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz shot. The factory piston wasn't even thinking about firing this ammo or winchest bulk from the shoulder buyt did all day without fail from the hip with the booster plug. I know a couple pistons exist that claim to increase reliability. The V-Plug increases the reliability more than the KA piston and we don't advertise the V-Plug as a reliability increaser... I am very comfortably advertising the booster piston as such though. I know many are gun-shy when it comes to increased reliability from pistons because they have all really feel way short but like I said, there is no other piston on the market that increases cycling power like the booster plug. They don't even come close! When MD Arms makes a statement about one of our items you can take it to the bank. I am very careful that what we claim is not easily arguable. I'll go through the test data and post the exact numbers, firing postion, and ammo from this gun in discusion. But I do garantee it.

#26 nattyiceking

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:50 AM


PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.


I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

It most definately will. If you can fire from the shoulder with the factory no problem it will definately make your gun fire from the hip no problem with the booster piston. I will dig out some test results and post them. But in brief one new from the box 19inch 3 portgun that had a few ftes from a fully loaded MD-20 with Federal bulk pack from the shoulder would cycle very losely held from the hip using whinchest bulk and even a low recoil remington that was only 2 3/4 dram (instead of the bulk pack 3 dram). That exact ammo was Remington Permier STS Light Target 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz shot. The factory piston wasn't even thinking about firing this ammo or winchest bulk from the shoulder buyt did all day without fail from the hip with the booster plug. Like I said, there is no other piston on the market that increases cycling power like the booster plug. I'll go through the test data a post the exact numbers, firing postion, and ammo from this gun in discusion. But I garantee it.


Well shit, I guess I'm sold. My S12 is a 19" 3 port gun also.

You recommend the VPlug for using high brass along with the booster puck. Can you elaborate a little bit on how not using the Vplug will "overwork the system"?

:smoke:
The greatest hypnotist on the planet earth is an oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.
The greatest form of control is when you think you're free, when you're being fundamentally manipulated and dictated to. One form of dictatorship is being in a prison cell and you can see the bars and touch them. The other one is sitting in a prison cell but you can't see the bars, but you think you're free.
What the human race is suffering from is mass hypnosis. We are being hypnotized by people like this: Newsreaders, politicians, teachers and lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is going on and what's really going on is absolutely enormous.

#27 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:59 AM

and no i'm not drunk! I just read folks saying stuff like "oh this puc really helps" or that "pucs are just ways to screw you out of money or just for 922r compliance?" I'm not trying to do anything but get some specifcs and facts to understand how this works to improve cycling before dropping 26 bucks plus shipping? thats money I can spend on one of his drums or a muzzle brake (74 style dinzag or polychoke css) you know! but if it truly helps and is guarunteed, then I may just get me one of each!!


I second that question! Mine also does the fte/ftfd crap when stock not braced and hip fired :unsure: with the factory puc and the CSS puc today x1 or 2.
It has 4 ports all visible and open on 19" gun. polished bolt and FCG, MDArms V-Plug setting 5, and tromix large knurled charging handle, shooting federal bulk 3 dram 7.5 shot.

In theory if the flat side turned to ports no different than normal puc unless longer?

If the concave side is towards the ports and puc is longer and/or same length as fact puc, I can see that the length = smaller rigid container same gas volume from shells = more driving power to the piston via the puc.

And the concave area properly shaped should in theory also direct gas towards the center of the puc instead of sides rolling it backwards resulting in possibly more driving force or efficiency from the puc to bcg piston?

so if the pucs are identical except the coating how does the coaing make one so much better? specifics please. and which direction will the puc install?

and if the tail or nipple faces the ports what benefit is it over a true bowl? does it just increase laminar flow or smooth directional roll of the the gas rearward which increases power?? B/C Laminar flow is much better than Turbulent flow of gasses = The Bernulli Principle and/or Poiseulle's Law?

if the pucs are identical then we are back to why coating makes it special???

Boyle's law, Charles's law, and Gay-Lussac's law form the combined gas law. The three gas laws in combination with Avogadro's law Generalize the Ideal gas law .
Examples

  • Change of Pressure in a Syringe w/o vent push plunger
  • The popping of a Balloon
  • Increase in size of bubbles as they rise to the surface
  • Death of deep sea creatures due to change in pressure.
  • Popping of ears at high altitude
  • heated gas driven Saiga 12 puc/piston or any other gas driven semi/full auto shotgun?????
  • putting gas tanks i.e. O2, Nitrous, etc... in a hot room from a cold room= gas heats expands and tank remains same size = increase pressure in tank.EquationThe mathematical equation for Boyle's law is:

    Posted Image
where:

p denotes the pressure of the system.V denotes the volume of the gas.k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.



the other gas laws are basically just rearraning variables, sort of.


quote] PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your more driving power? I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

The dished area faces the gas plug. It is just like an AK rifle in that it decreases gas loss around the piston. Both our pistons have this and this feature alone shouldn't be considered a realiability increaser. Although more effecient it makes very little difference on the grand scale. The button's purpose is explained above and has no working function for realiability increase or flow. But yes and thanks for pointing out... Our dished ring is a smooth radius and Laminar flow where the dished areas of the other similar pistons are turbulent flow...

The coating on the booster piston doesn't have anything to do with increasing reliability either. We tested many, many finishes and the best being teflon was still not a measurable difference in cycling reliability. On top of that teflon is no good in this application as it is soft and wears away and also breaks down under the heat of the gasses.

The Booster piston is the same size as the factory piston.

#28 Russian Hammer

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 10:59 AM

finally an aftermarket puck worth buying, good job, ill definitely be getting one of these.
If money smell bad Russian Hammer be stinkin

#29 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 11:00 AM

Guns are great: I would say it is definatly installed with the concave side facing the muzzel with the flat side facing the reciever.

Correct.

#30 Mike Davidson

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 11:08 AM



PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.


I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

It most definately will. If you can fire from the shoulder with the factory no problem it will definately make your gun fire from the hip no problem with the booster piston. I will dig out some test results and post them. But in brief one new from the box 19inch 3 portgun that had a few ftes from a fully loaded MD-20 with Federal bulk pack from the shoulder would cycle very losely held from the hip using whinchest bulk and even a low recoil remington that was only 2 3/4 dram (instead of the bulk pack 3 dram). That exact ammo was Remington Permier STS Light Target 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz shot. The factory piston wasn't even thinking about firing this ammo or winchest bulk from the shoulder buyt did all day without fail from the hip with the booster plug. Like I said, there is no other piston on the market that increases cycling power like the booster plug. I'll go through the test data a post the exact numbers, firing postion, and ammo from this gun in discusion. But I garantee it.


Well shit, I guess I'm sold. My S12 is a 19" 3 port gun also.

You recommend the VPlug for using high brass along with the booster puck. Can you elaborate a little bit on how not using the Vplug will "overwork the system"?

:smoke:

Because all saiga-12s with the factory gas plug over work the system with some of the hottest high power rounds; like some 3 inch slugs or 2 3/4 or 3 inch turkey loads both. Some guns are a lot worse than others too depending how your gas block and/or factory gas plug is threaded. If you view the V-Plug page on our site you will see an example of the great difference of gas flow on the high brass setting in the same gas block from 2 different factory gas plugs. If you add in a significant increase in cycling power from the booster piston it will only multiply the issue. The V-Plug will eliminate the issue when used properly.




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