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Bridis

Who else is working on their LRBHO install?

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I'm working on mine and I've got the LRBHO into the gun. I've been using Tom's pictures, instructions and latest tip "Metal will need to be removed from the forward edge of the device to allow clearance for the BHO to fit under the ejection block." Once I got the LRBHO in the gun I had to grind down the edge that protrudes into the mag release to get the mag to seat properly. Then I ground the notch into the bolt and now have it fitted to where the gun cycles like it use to. I have now hit a small road block and would like some help or to brainstorm with someone who is also working on the install.

 

1. I am guessing the screw on side of the LRBHO is to remain installed and act as the BHO spring catch. However, when the screw is installed it cants the LRBHO to the point I can not install the axis pin. What should I do about this, grind down the screw?

2. I'd still like to see a drawing, photo or video on how to install the LRBHO spring.

3. When I put the gun together (without the trigger group, hammer or springs) with the LRBHO, both axis pins, Shepard's crook, bolt bolt carrier and recoil spring and try to manually cycle a round, the bolt will not pick up the round. I would think that the gun should be able to manually cycling ammo at this stage on assembly?

4. I'd still like more info on Step 4 and 10 of the instructions.

Edited by Bridis
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Did you cut the hole in the side? The first thread Tom posted about this part being released, in his section of the forum, mentions this,,,,,,bottom of the first page.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=47688

Edited by PYRO

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You should not have to cut that hole for the LRBHO. It is designed to work like the factory and protrude out the bottom of the receiver. Im guessing that the picture you posted is showing what can be done if you want it on the side.

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I plan to install mine after I get back from Alaska next week I hope you guys have all these issues worked out by then.

 

My S-12 was never equipped with the bold hold open device. So I'm going to make a slot in the side. I shoot left handed anyway so it should be in a nice spot for me.

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Did you cut the hole in the side? The first thread Tom posted about this part being released, in his section of the forum, mentions this,,,,,,bottom of the first page.

http://forum.saiga-1...attach_id=47688

 

No, I didn't do that. I opened up the existing BHO slot to let the new LRBHO protrude through the bottom. The new LRBHO is wider than the factory BHO so you have to widen the existing slot so the new LRBHO will fit through.

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:Johnboy:

 

I was hoping you might have some expert advice or instruction to share. Always good to hear from one of the masters.

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Okay, so I thought I'd provide an update with a few pictures. I'll also post this over in CGW forum as well. I'm hoping one of the experts will get a look at it and offer some advice.

 

Most of the modifications are my interpretation of the instructions and pictures provided by CGW. (Please don't take this as advice as what to do. I'm still working through this)

 

This first pic is of the receiver with the LRBHO installed.

198106_10150131384143711_816833710_6466102_6555059_n.jpg

 

POINT 1: Is where I notched the ejection plate to allow fitting of the LRBHO

POINT 2: Is where the existing BHO penetrated the bottom of the receiver. I widened this a bit to allow the LRBHO to penetrate the bottom of the receiver. The LRBHO is actually made of thicker material than the factory BHO.

 

This picture is of my modified LRBHO. This is what has been done so far.

199925_10150131371648711_816833710_6466011_3461231_n.jpg

 

POINT 1: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to get the LRBHO to fit under the ejection block.

 

POINT 2: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to allow the mag to fit into the gun and the mag release to function.

 

POINT 3: Is the edge (in combination with notching the bolt) that I ground down to allow the round to rise high enough that the bolt would catch it and begin pushing it into the chamber.

 

POINT 4: Is the tip of the "Hawk's Beak". I had to remove a small bit of material from the end to allow the round to clear as it rose to the chamber.

 

The last pic is of the bolt. As you can see it has been notched to allow smooth transitions over the LRBHO and to allow the "Hawk's Beak" to rise high enough so the bolt catches the round.

197161_10150131371413711_816833710_6466009_2270051_n.jpg

 

Right now the gun seems to cycle very well without ammo. Once ammo is introduced I run into my current problem. I am now at the point where the bolt picks up the round and cleanly chambers it. However, when the bolt carrier is pulled back and the extractor has a hold of the shell, the "Hawk's Beak" catches on the back of the shell before the extractor can release it, jamming the gun. I have to manually remove the shell from the extractor. Now it's pretty obvious to me that the "HB" is not suppose to catch the back of the shell. But there isn't enough play (up or down) for the "HB" to clear the extracting shell. There must be more I need to do.

 

Any advice or help would be great.

Edited by Bridis
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Okay, so I thought I'd provide an update with a few pictures. I'll also post this over in CGW forum as well. I'm hoping one of the experts will get a look at it and offer some advice.

 

Right now the gun seems to cycle very well without ammo. Once ammo is introduced I run into my current problem. I am now at the point where the bolt picks up the round and cleanly chambers it. However, when the bolt carrier is pulled back and the extractor has a hold of the shell, the "Hawk's Beak" catches on the back of the shell before the extractor can release it, jamming the gun. I have to manually remove the shell from the extractor. Now it's pretty obvious to me that the "HB" is not suppose to catch the back of the shell. But there isn't enough play (up or down) for the "HB" to clear the extracting shell. There must be more I need to do.

 

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks for your pics on the process, I'm looking forward to installing mine myself as well, please keep us updated!!!!

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Thanks for your pics on the process, I'm looking forward to installing mine myself as well, please keep us updated!!!!

 

Your welcome. I'll help out the best I can.

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:Johnboy:

 

I don't know why, but I found that fucking hilarious :lolol:

Me too, specifically with regards to who posted it. :lolol:

 

Oh, and Bridis -- Tony is not "one of." Tony is thee master when it comes to the Saiga platform. ;)

.

.

.

.

Edited by Gary

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I've made a little more progress since Tom's last post, so I've updated my LRBHO photo to show the progress and provide a little more detail.

Tom say's he thinks I'm doing fine so far. So that's a good sign I'm doing things right.

 

190128_10150132054943711_816833710_6470646_741337_n.jpg

 

POINT 1: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to get the LRBHO to fit under the ejection block.

 

POINT 2: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to allow the mag to fit into the gun and the mag release to function.

 

POINT 3: Is the edge (in combination with notching the bolt) that I ground down to allow the round to rise high enough that the bolt would catch it and begin pushing it into the chamber.

 

POINT 4: Is the tip of the "Hawk's Beak". I had to remove a small bit of material from the end to allow the round to clear as it rose to the chamber.

 

POINT 5: Is the edge I needed to grind to get the "Hawk's Beak" to dip down so that the bolt could pass over it with a round being held by the extractor.

 

Now the gun will cycle ammo with a little assistance. I have to manipulate the LRBHO manually because I have not installed the spring. However, the LRBHO still doesn't catch the bolt, bolt carrier or anything that would cause the bolt to hold open on the last round. So there is still more to do.

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Oh, and Bridis -- Tony is not "one of." Tony is thee master when it comes to the Saiga platform. ;)

.

 

I think a statement like that diminishes the accomplishment of others. I know Tony is a leading innovator in the Saiga community, but I'll respectfully stick with "one of". :D

Edited by Bridis
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I've made a little more progress since Tom's last post, so I've updated my LRBHO photo to show the progress and provide a little more detail.

Tom say's he thinks I'm doing fine so far. So that's a good sign I'm doing things right.

 

190128_10150132054943711_816833710_6470646_741337_n.jpg

 

POINT 1: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to get the LRBHO to fit under the ejection block.

 

POINT 2: Is the edge that I needed to grind down to allow the mag to fit into the gun and the mag release to function.

 

POINT 3: Is the edge (in combination with notching the bolt) that I ground down to allow the round to rise high enough that the bolt would catch it and begin pushing it into the chamber.

 

POINT 4: Is the tip of the "Hawk's Beak". I had to remove a small bit of material from the end to allow the round to clear as it rose to the chamber.

 

POINT 5: Is the edge I needed to grind to get the "Hawk's Beak" to dip down so that the bolt could pass over it with a round being held by the extractor.

 

Now the gun will cycle ammo with a little assistance. I have to manipulate the LRBHO manually because I have not installed the spring. However, the LRBHO still doesn't catch the bolt, bolt carrier or anything that would cause the bolt to hold open on the last round. So there is still more to do.

 

Hello Bridis, I also am working on installing my LRBHO and am not as far along as you but close behind. I noticed that mine wouldn't rotate on an empty magazine enough either to engage the bolt carrier until I slowly removed more material from Point 3 and 5. Now, it will rotate far enough to hold the bolt carrier back on an empty mag but I haven't trimmed the top of the "HB" yet to fit below the carrier and bolt head. So I'm afraid that removing to much material from the "HB" on the top and bottom will yield a very thin profile that won't be very strong. What are your thoughts?

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I haven't taken anything off of the top of the "HB". I found notching the bolt and removing material from POINT 3 was enough to get the bolt to slide over the LRBHO.

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I haven't taken anything off of the top of the "HB". I found notching the bolt and removing material from POINT 3 was enough to get the bolt to slide over the LRBHO.

 

Well if that is the case then I say go for more removal on the bottom. That is what allowed mine to at least allow the rear top tab to engage the bolt carrier. Tomorrow, I'll finish the top and bolt and report back with my findings. I haven't seen anyone else say this yet but thank you for your write up and great pictures. Your pictures were a huge help to me getting going!

 

I'm one of those impatient "mechanical engineers" that needs to get projects done with or without the instructions completed. I know I should have waited a bit longer for the full install video but I really want to get this running, so thanks again for jumping in head first - at least I'm not the only one...

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Well, here is where I piss everyone off, I suppose.

I got a half dozen customer guns which need these installed, so it'll have to be figured out.

I decided to tinker with one today on a gun I have stripped down. I tweaked and ground and cut, and the big problem I had was that the "beak" hit the magazine body and kept the BHO down, so it could not lock the bolt. I figured I'd already screwed the part. I hadn't done the bolt yet, just getting it in the gun.

So I got ahold of Tom and we talked a bit. He assured me I coud cut even more away without problems, as it was sufficiently overbuilt.

However, I started with a one (I have a bag of them), and began over. I've got one working, at least by hand. You can install the BHO and hammer on the hammer pin, the BHO spring goes on the trigger pin, and I put in the shepherds hook to keep the pins in. Then I installed the bolt and carrier with recoil spring. I inserted an AGP mag with 2 loaded rounds in it.

THE HAMMER SPRING WAS NOT INSTALLED, NOR WAS THE FIRING PIN IN THE BOLT.

Anyway, when the bolt was drawn back and let go, it chambered the first round, and when the bolt was drawn back again, it ejected the first round and chambered the second. When the bolt was drawn back a third time, it locked open.

 

Test fire will be the final proving, but I think I got it.

 

Took most of the afternoon.

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@ lksyotas

 

Your words here and Tom's/others posts over in the CGW forum are very helpful as well. From that info I've gathered that I need to remove more material from POINT 5 to get the front of the LRBHO to tilt forward far enough and the back to rise high enough to engage the bolt on an empty mag.

 

If you haven't notched your bolt yet you need to. I believe that is a very important step in the cycling process and allowing the "HB" to rise high enough to feed rounds into the chamber.

 

Thanks for participating

Edited by Bridis
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Well, here is where I piss everyone off, I suppose.

I got a half dozen customer guns which need these installed, so it'll have to be figured out.

I decided to tinker with one today on a gun I have stripped down. I tweaked and ground and cut, and the big problem I had was that the "beak" hit the magazine body and kept the BHO down, so it could not lock the bolt. I figured I'd already screwed the part. I hadn't done the bolt yet, just getting it in the gun.

So I got ahold of Tom and we talked a bit. He assured me I coud cut even more away without problems, as it was sufficiently overbuilt.

However, I started with a one (I have a bag of them), and began over. I've got one working, at least by hand. You can install the BHO and hammer on the hammer pin, the BHO spring goes on the trigger pin, and I put in the shepherds hook to keep the pins in. Then I installed the bolt and carrier with recoil spring. I inserted an AGP mag with 2 loaded rounds in it.

THE HAMMER SPRING WAS NOT INSTALLED, NOR WAS THE FIRING PIN IN THE BOLT.

Anyway, when the bolt was drawn back and let go, it chambered the first round, and when the bolt was drawn back again, it ejected the first round and chambered the second. When the bolt was drawn back a third time, it locked open.

 

Test fire will be the final proving, but I think I got it.

 

Took most of the afternoon.

 

 

Great update Gunfixr! You give us hope! Can't wait to hear how you make out with the live fire test. I just hope that the "beak" will be strong enough with such a thin profile left after the tweaking...I noticed that also today while working mine that the beak was hanging up on the rear of the magazine and I wondered just how much I would have to remove to get it to clear both the mag and the bolt head...

 

 

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Great update Gunfixr! You give us hope! Can't wait to hear how you make out with the live fire test. I just hope that the "beak" will be strong enough with such a thin profile left after the tweaking...I noticed that also today while working mine that the beak was hanging up on the rear of the magazine and I wondered just how much I would have to remove to get it to clear both the mag and the bolt head...

 

 

 

Where on the 'HB" was hanging up on the mag? The only thing that ever interfered with my mag/mag release was POINT 2.

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Actually, the two I have doen are much thicker than the one in the above pics.

I went back and was able to save the one I thought I'd screwed up.

 

To answer some of the questions posted earlier, the spring goes on the trigger pin, with the legs pointing towards the rear. One leg sits on the bottom of the receiver, the other sits agains the underside of the screw head.

The BHO will sit parallel with the receiver if the screw head is ground down some, jut don't take too much.

A lot less material can be taken off the "beak" if it is properly bent upwards somewhat. Also, less has to be taken off the front part underneath the "beak" where it gets in the way of the mag catch.

 

I guess I'll have to take some pics tomorrow.

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Great update Gunfixr! You give us hope! Can't wait to hear how you make out with the live fire test. I just hope that the "beak" will be strong enough with such a thin profile left after the tweaking...I noticed that also today while working mine that the beak was hanging up on the rear of the magazine and I wondered just how much I would have to remove to get it to clear both the mag and the bolt head...

 

 

 

Where on the 'HB" was hanging up on the mag? The only thing that ever interfered with my mag/mag release was POINT 2.

 

 

 

On mine, position 3 is currently limiting the LRBHO in down travel by the rear of the stock factory mag. You didn't have that issue or did you remove material from that position prior to test fitting a mag? I'm also fighting to get the darn mag release lever reinstalled. I've lost the darn pin three times in my workshop...LOL...I've even used the slightly smaller dowel pin trick to guide the spring and release lever into position.

Edited by lksyotas

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Actually, the two I have doen are much thicker than the one in the above pics.

I went back and was able to save the one I thought I'd screwed up.

 

To answer some of the questions posted earlier, the spring goes on the trigger pin, with the legs pointing towards the rear. One leg sits on the bottom of the receiver, the other sits agains the underside of the screw head.

The BHO will sit parallel with the receiver if the screw head is ground down some, jut don't take too much.

A lot less material can be taken off the "beak" if it is properly bent upwards somewhat. Also, less has to be taken off the front part underneath the "beak" where it gets in the way of the mag catch.

 

I guess I'll have to take some pics tomorrow.

 

I also ground down the screw head slightly to allow the LRBHO to position parallel to the receiver side. It would not fit in its original form...

 

What do you mean by the beak being properly bent upwards? Did you do this with grinding or physically bend it? 4140 steel seems to hard to physically bend by hand - I would think it would be to brittle? Also, I'm thinking of reheat treating the beak portion after I've ground most of the heat treat out of it...what are your thoughts?

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Well, here is where I piss everyone off, I suppose.

I got a half dozen customer guns which need these installed, so it'll have to be figured out.

I decided to tinker with one today on a gun I have stripped down. I tweaked and ground and cut, and the big problem I had was that the "beak" hit the magazine body and kept the BHO down, so it could not lock the bolt. I figured I'd already screwed the part. I hadn't done the bolt yet, just getting it in the gun.

So I got ahold of Tom and we talked a bit. He assured me I coud cut even more away without problems, as it was sufficiently overbuilt.

However, I started with a one (I have a bag of them), and began over. I've got one working, at least by hand. You can install the BHO and hammer on the hammer pin, the BHO spring goes on the trigger pin, and I put in the shepherds hook to keep the pins in. Then I installed the bolt and carrier with recoil spring. I inserted an AGP mag with 2 loaded rounds in it.

THE HAMMER SPRING WAS NOT INSTALLED, NOR WAS THE FIRING PIN IN THE BOLT.

Anyway, when the bolt was drawn back and let go, it chambered the first round, and when the bolt was drawn back again, it ejected the first round and chambered the second. When the bolt was drawn back a third time, it locked open.

 

Test fire will be the final proving, but I think I got it.

 

Took most of the afternoon.

 

Congrats!!!! I wish I had a bag of LRBHOs and all day to mess with this. I've been plugging away at this cautiously for a couple of hours over the past few days because from what I've read these things are now on back order. I also wish I had time in my work day to call Tom and ask questions. :(

This thing called work is really screwing up my hobby :lolol: .

 

I so envy the Gunsmiths who get to do what they love all day.

 

Thanks guys.

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ALLL RIGHT!!!! Thanks to all this brain storming and fantastic info, I think that I'll have a functioning LRBHO tomorrow night.

 

LOOK OUT!!! :lolol:

 

I'll post a video documenting the process as soon as I can.:super:

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On mine, position 3 is currently limiting the LRBHO in down travel by the rear of the stock factory mag. You didn't have that issue or did you remove material from that position prior to test fitting a mag? I'm also fighting to get the darn mag release lever reinstalled. I've lost the darn pin three times in my workshop...LOL...I've even used the slightly smaller dowel pin trick to guide the spring and release lever into position.

 

POINT 3 never interfered with my mag or mag release. POINT 2 was what caused that problem.

 

BTW, something I haven't mentioned is that the way the "POINTS" are numbered is the way I modified the LRBHO. I worked POINT 1 to a fit. Moved on to POINT 2, then 3 and so on.

 

I also believe that modifying POINT 3 and notching the bolt coincide.

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