Who else is working on their LRBHO install?

[Gunfixr 76]

Well, having a bag of them doesn't mean I can just screw them up and throw them away, I do have to pay for them.

And, I'm not exactly wasting my afternoon messing with them, as I will be paid to install them. So, technically, I am working.

 

Yes, I did bend it. It doesn't bend easily, but it will bend. They are hardened, but then tempered to somewhere in the 40s Rockwell C. So they're not brittle. Bending should be done cautiously, a little at a time until you get where you want. You don't want to be bending back and forth.

 

Grinding on things like this should always be done holding it in your bare hands. That way, you can feel it getting hot. Have a bucket of water to cool it in, and cool it often. Once it starts to discolor, you are starting to draw the temper and soften it.

[lksyotas 4]

Well, having a bag of them doesn't mean I can just screw them up and throw them away, I do have to pay for them.

And, I'm not exactly wasting my afternoon messing with them, as I will be paid to install them. So, technically, I am working.

 

Yes, I did bend it. It doesn't bend easily, but it will bend. They are hardened, but then tempered to somewhere in the 40s Rockwell C. So they're not brittle. Bending should be done cautiously, a little at a time until you get where you want. You don't want to be bending back and forth.

 

Grinding on things like this should always be done holding it in your bare hands. That way, you can feel it getting hot. Have a bucket of water to cool it in, and cool it often. Once it starts to discolor, you are starting to draw the temper and soften it.

 

NO offense meant regarding your work. I believe I speak for Bridis in that we are envious and wish our "work" was as cool as yours.

 

Anyway, I am familiar with metal working and I have so far done just as you recommended by grinding by hand and using water to keep the part cool. I also keep an eye out for the annealing of the steel by checking for "hot spots" or bluing of the contact surface. I'll try to do the bend tomorrow when I'm back in the shop but can you elaborate on how you bent it? Just give the beak a slight bend upward towards the tip?

[Bridis 319]

Well, having a bag of them doesn't mean I can just screw them up and throw them away, I do have to pay for them.

And, I'm not exactly wasting my afternoon messing with them, as I will be paid to install them. So, technically, I am working.

 

Yes, I did bend it. It doesn't bend easily, but it will bend. They are hardened, but then tempered to somewhere in the 40s Rockwell C. So they're not brittle. Bending should be done cautiously, a little at a time until you get where you want. You don't want to be bending back and forth.

 

Grinding on things like this should always be done holding it in your bare hands. That way, you can feel it getting hot. Have a bucket of water to cool it in, and cool it often. Once it starts to discolor, you are starting to draw the temper and soften it.

 

Didn't mean to insinuate anything negative... I truly envy what you do.

I'm looking forward to your field testing.

[Bridis 319]

NO offense meant regarding your work. I believe I speak for Bridis in that we are envious and wish our "work" was as cool as yours.

 

Anyway, I am familiar with metal working and I have so far done just as you recommended by grinding by hand and using water to keep the part cool. I also keep an eye out for the annealing of the steel by checking for "hot spots" or bluing of the contact surface. I'll try to do the bend tomorrow when I'm back in the shop but can you elaborate on how you bent it? Just give the beak a slight bend upward toward the tip?

 

The bending is interesting, though I haven't needed it. Some pics would be great.

 

Hopefully I'll have my LRBHO running tomorrow. By hand that is.

 

I'll grind some more off of POINT 5, install and grind retention screw, done... That's the plan.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Bridis

[Gunfixr 76]

I do want to say that Tom did not tell me to bend it, or even that I could bend it. This was a decision I made entirely on my own.

That said, it does seem to reduce the amount of metal that must be removed by a fair bit. However, it does not seem that it can be bent enough to not need to remove any metal.

 

Pretty much all bending was done before grinding on the "beak",as that changes the weak points and will cause the bending to happen in a place other than where desired. If you hold the entire beak in a vise, and use an adjustable wrench on the rear end of the body,, you can rotate the body around, which bends it at the "Z" twist, rotating the beak upwards (provided you go in the right direction). The body can be held in the vise and the wrench applied to the beak, but the other way seems to work better.

Because of where it bends, the part that goes vertical up to the beak swings away from the magazine and catch as the beak swings upwards. This reduces the amount removed to clear the magazine catch, and reduces the amount removed to get the round up high enough to feed. It also leaves the beak angled upward, which is the way the round comes up from the magazine anyway, angled upward and pointed directly into the chamber.

I also ground the beak's underside at a slight angle, as it is off center to the cartridge, to match the radius of the rim better. This makes the rim ride a flat spot instead of the edge of the beak, which spreads the contact pressure out, reducing the friction and making feeding smoother.

 

PS: I'll take some pics tomorrow. I now know why he charges so much to install them, and I don't blame him.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Gunfixr

[6500rpm 670]

^^^^Nate is a good guy to listen to and learn from his work-A+

[Bridis 319]

^^^^Nate is a good guy to listen to and learn from his work-A+

 

No one has said otherwise... I look forward to the report of his progress.

[P lang 51]

I also started my lrbho install today , I found it necessary to not only grind the screw head flat but to remove 3/4 of the screw head leaving only the 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock remaing before it would rise enough to engage the carrier , it was catching on the bottom leg of the carrier rail near the saftey lever slot. Now I'm try to gain upwards travel in the hb , I filed out the hole in the bottom of the reciever where the preveiously existing bho stuck through and narrowed the lever itself so no restriction to travel there , I've never ground the top of the hb but have ground up from the bottom to where it's only about 1/8 tall and have shortened it to about 2/3 it's original length . I've also ground down the area under the hammer axis pin as well as the top 1/2 circle shape to maintain clearance around the ejector block. I found that when inserting a empty mag the lever was bottoming out on the fcg pin before fully seating the mag , so with only a 1/8 tall hb I decided to notch the mag. Now my mag seats, the lever engages and locks the bolt. But when I tried to seat a loaded mag I found that the lever still doesn't have enough travel to allow the shell to fully rise in the mag , so I had to grind into the hump in lever above the fcg axis pin , got a little more travel ,but still lacking cus now I'm running into the bottom of the ejector block , which is were I had to call it a day after 8 hours , I'd probly still be be working on it but the girlfriend would be pissed ,can't wait to get back at it tomarrow morning , I'll post some pics tommarrow when I get it going. I was really happy to read all these other post to see where others are at , so thought I'd write about my experience thus far. Thanks guys !!

[Bridis 319]

I should have mine done tonight. Once I get it functioning I'll post a video of what I did.

[havok 21]

I also started my lrbho install today , I found it necessary to not only grind the screw head flat but to remove 3/4 of the screw head leaving only the 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock remaing before it would rise enough to engage the carrier , it was catching on the bottom leg of the carrier rail near the saftey lever slot. Now I'm try to gain upwards travel in the hb , I filed out the hole in the bottom of the reciever where the preveiously existing bho stuck through and narrowed the lever itself so no restriction to travel there , I've never ground the top of the hb but have ground up from the bottom to where it's only about 1/8 tall and have shortened it to about 2/3 it's original length . I've also ground down the area under the hammer axis pin as well as the top 1/2 circle shape to maintain clearance around the ejector block. I found that when inserting a empty mag the lever was bottoming out on the fcg pin before fully seating the mag , so with only a 1/8 tall hb I decided to notch the mag. Now my mag seats, the lever engages and locks the bolt. But when I tried to seat a loaded mag I found that the lever still doesn't have enough travel to allow the shell to fully rise in the mag , so I had to grind into the hump in lever above the fcg axis pin , got a little more travel ,but still lacking cus now I'm running into the bottom of the ejector block , which is were I had to call it a day after 8 hours , I'd probly still be be working on it but the girlfriend would be pissed ,can't wait to get back at it tomarrow morning , I'll post some pics tommarrow when I get it going. I was really happy to read all these other post to see where others are at , so thought I'd write about my experience thus far. Thanks guys !!

 

Same problem here with that screw head.

That spring screw head is a bad idea on cadiz it is just too big. It should just be a stud with no head and a notch to hold the spring.

[lksyotas 4]

Hello guys...I spent my entire lunch hour and about two hours after work finishing up the LRBHO. It cycles manually with the factory and APG mags. I took some quick vids with my Blackberry but can't upload them due to size. I only had five shells on hand to try but they were a mix of cheap Federal and Hornady slugs.

 

I'll tidy it up tomorrow, polish the edges, and install a stud in place of the screw for the spring retainer. Then take it to the range! I am a bit afraid that it will not hold up, in order to get it to work reliably I had to remove ALOT of material from the beak. It is only about .100" at the bend. I also had to modify all the mags to make it function properly. Must be my gun had the ejector block and mag lever assembled to close together to prevent the mag from being modified. Come to think of it when the gun was new I had to file the factory mag just to get it to lock in place.

 

I'll post some vids tomorrow - Wish me luck!

[Gunfixr 76]

Didn't mess with them today, had other more pressing things to do.

Like test fire the Desert Eagle .50AE I just refinished. It had been stolen and ditched in a culvert, to be found a year later.

 

Anyway, I did get a couple pics. I took one of the modified BHO next to an unmodified BHO. I took a second one of the modified BHO sitting on top of the unmodified BHO, with an FCG pin through the hole on both.

[lksyotas 4]

Anyway, I did get a couple pics. I took one of the modified BHO next to an unmodified BHO. I took a second one of the modified BHO sitting on top of the unmodified BHO, with an FCG pin through the hole on both.

 

Your pic of the modified one looks very similar to mine but my beak is even thinner! I did the bend trick also as you previously stated. Mine ended up having to be as thin as it is to clear the bolt carrier and not engage the release when an empty mag is inserted.

[PYRO 44]

Didn't mess with them today, had other more pressing things to do.

Like test fire the Desert Eagle .50AE I just refinished. It had been stolen and ditched in a culvert, to be found a year later.

 

Anyway, I did get a couple pics. I took one of the modified BHO next to an unmodified BHO. I took a second one of the modified BHO sitting on top of the unmodified BHO, with an FCG pin through the hole on both.

Wow, that is a lot of material removed,,,,,,thanks for the side by side comparison, reallly helps. And thanks to everyone that is sharing their info about this, I finely got my and hope to start installing it soon.

[Bridis 319]

Well I think I've cleared the LRBHO hurdle. I've ground and fitted, ground and fitted to the point that the LRBHO functions as it's suppose to. Now I've ran into yet another obsticle... When I put the gun back together the pressure from the hammer spring pressing against the LRBHO causes the LRBHO to stick during it's movement, like the BHO spring is too weak. So the LRBHO isn't pushed high enough to make contact with the bolt carrier when I manually cycle the gun. I've tried both my reduced tension hammer spring and the factory hammer spring, but both put too much pressure on the side of the LRBHO. I've also tried grinding the LRBHO a little thinner where the hammer spring makes contact. That helped a little but didn't solve the problem. It's after midnight and I worked from 7:00 until now. So I'm too beat to even try and think right now.... Any suggestions would be great.

[P lang 51]

Well I think I've cleared the LRBHO hurdle. I've ground and fitted, ground and fitted to the point that the LRBHO functions as it's suppose to. Now I've ran into yet another obsticle... When I put the gun back together the pressure from the hammer spring pressing against the LRBHO causes the LRBHO to stick during it's movement, like the BHO spring is too weak. So the LRBHO isn't pushed high enough to make contact with the bolt carrier when I manually cycle the gun. I've tried both my reduced tension hammer spring and the factory hammer spring, but both put too much pressure on the side of the LRBHO. I've also tried grinding the LRBHO a little thinner where the hammer spring makes contact. That helped a little but didn't solve the problem. It's after midnight and I worked from 7:00 until now. So I'm too beat to even try and think right now.... Any suggestions would be great.

Have you tried installing the hammer without the spring , if it only drags with the spring installed I'd check three things which I had problems with , 1 the screw head , the Phillips formation will bite into the side of the receiver if not ground smooth , 2 the new lrbho spring itself , the top leg is to long with the saftey installed and needs to be trimmed about 1/4 or so . 3 the spring on the mag release , the leg projecting into the area under the ejector block is to long and drag for sure if not trimmed back. One more if you're not installing the side release and are running it just like the original bho that slot needs filed . Hope you find it

[lksyotas 4]

Figure'd I would share a quick video of the initial installation. Sorry for the crappy quality - was taken with my Blackberry...

 

No fire control components installed yet but the timing of the LRBHO is good at least for manual cycling. The video shows an AGP mag loaded with a mix of 2 low brass and 2 high brass slugs. No firing pin in the bolt either for those who are wondering.

 

Hopefully, I'll get it all buttoned up today and hit the range tomorrow. I have an IDPA match in the AM so I'm going to try to run it after the match is over. Hopefully I don't run into the same issues as Bridis did with the hammer spring. Haven't gotten that far yet...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXmpsWwMPvw&feature=channel_video_title

 

Edited March 25, 2011 by lksyotas

[P lang 51]

I got mine up and running , I seriously considered the bending idea but choose a different approach to achieve the same goal , to achieve more elevation on the hawks beak I ground the entire length of the body on the bottom side alot , including the half circle under the trigger axis pin. When done the hole just below the screw completely protuded threw the bottom of the receiver . To install the side lever I welded that hole closed and drilled and tapped a new one as close to the screw as I could. This still doesn't let the round touch the top of the mag but it's very close and the bolt picks it up fine . I also had a problem with the carrier dropping as soon as a loaded mag was inserted , after cycling several times I could see a mark on the catch part of the unit where the carrier was landing , I filed a very tiny notch there and that seems to work. But to release the bolt with a loaded mag you have to pull back the bolt just like the original bho and to release on a empty mag you need to push the side pin down while holding the bolt back . Ill try to post some pictures later but my lrbho lever is very similar to the the pics above , mine Is 3 and 7/8 in length with the hb tappering from 3/32 down to a point .

[lksyotas 4]

Just another quick update. I too am having issues with the hammer spring putting to much side load on the LRBHO. I am either going to get an after market spring that has a thinner cross section or mill a counter bore into the LRBHO where the stock spring is hitting to relieve some tension. Other than that, the fire controls and safety are all installed. Worth mentioning, I also had to cut the mag release spring a bit to clear the LRBHO. It protruded into the area that the bend of the LRBHO sits so I cut it to still engage the receiver fine but not interfere with operation. All seems good for now except the hammer spring tension. Anyone else find similar issues?

[P lang 51]

I hate to say it but I'm gonna have to write a bit of a retraction here , the hb needs to be left a little longer, when the round jumps up into the top of the mag if the hb is to short it can cause the front end of the round to cock up and catch on top lip of the barrel .

[Battosaii 99]

have you guys tried putting some lubricant where the spring is hitting?

 

dosnt hurt to try

[Bridis 319]

Have you tried installing the hammer without the spring , if it only drags with the spring installed I'd check three things which I had problems with , 1 the screw head , the Phillips formation will bite into the side of the receiver if not ground smooth , 2 the new lrbho spring itself , the top leg is to long with the saftey installed and needs to be trimmed about 1/4 or so . 3 the spring on the mag release , the leg projecting into the area under the ejector block is to long and drag for sure if not trimmed back. One more if you're not installing the side release and are running it just like the original bho that slot needs filed . Hope you find it

 

Things seem to function properly without the hammer spring. I'll try grinding the catch screw down a little and smooth it out. That'll give me smoother surface and a little more space between the hammer spring and LRBHO too. I may even remove a little more material from the area where the hammer spring contacts the LRBHO.

[P lang 51]

Have you tried installing the hammer without the spring , if it only drags with the spring installed I'd check three things which I had problems with , 1 the screw head , the Phillips formation will bite into the side of the receiver if not ground smooth , 2 the new lrbho spring itself , the top leg is to long with the saftey installed and needs to be trimmed about 1/4 or so . 3 the spring on the mag release , the leg projecting into the area under the ejector block is to long and drag for sure if not trimmed back. One more if you're not installing the side release and are running it just like the original bho that slot needs filed . Hope you find it

 

Things seem to function properly without the hammer spring. I'll try grinding the catch screw down a little and smooth it out. That'll give me smoother surface and a little more space between the hammer spring and LRBHO too. I may even remove a little more material from the area where the hammer spring contacts the LRBHO.

On mine the Phillips pattern is almost completely gone .

[Bridis 319]

Grinding down the catch screw fixed my issue with the hammer spring. And the screw is almost gone in my case too. I also had to cut about an 1/8" off the end of the mag release spring because the LRBHO was hitting it under the ejector block. The gun is now completely back together and fuctioning perfectly except for one thing. I don't think I have any more play/material I can remove to prevent the LRBHO from disengadging when a loaded mag is inserted. I even had to notch my factory mag to make room for the Hawks Beak so the rear of the LRBHO would engadge the bolt carrier after the last round is ejected.

 

I had a video made, but I was chewing gum so loud durring the recording that I drove myself nuts.

 

I'm going to try and do another tomorrow. Without the gum.

 

 

[havok 21]

Grinding down the catch screw fixed my issue with the hammer spring. And the screw is almost gone in my case too. I also had to cut about an 1/8" off the end of the mag release spring because the LRBHO was hitting it under the ejector block. The gun is now completely back together and fuctioning perfectly except for one thing. I don't think I have any more play/material I can remove to prevent the LRBHO from disengadging when a loaded mag is inserted. I even had to notch my factory mag to make room for the Hawks Beak so the rear of the LRBHO would engadge the bolt carrier after the last round is ejected.

 

I had a video made, but I was chewing gum so loud durring the recording that I drove myself nuts.

 

I'm going to try and do another tomorrow. Without the gum.

 

 

Everything you just describe is the same problem I'am having. The the back of the HB just does not sit high enough in my gun. running out of space on the bottom of HB.

[Bridis 319]

A few people in this thread, including Gunfixr have talked about bending the HB upward. Before I do that I think I'll wait for Tom to comment. He's done many of these things.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Bridis

[P lang 51]

Grinding down the catch screw fixed my issue with the hammer spring. And the screw is almost gone in my case too. I also had to cut about an 1/8" off the end of the mag release spring because the LRBHO was hitting it under the ejector block. The gun is now completely back together and fuctioning perfectly except for one thing. I don't think I have any more play/material I can remove to prevent the LRBHO from disengadging when a loaded mag is inserted. I even had to notch my factory mag to make room for the Hawks Beak so the rear of the LRBHO would engadge the bolt carrier after the last round is ejected.

 

I had a video made, but I was chewing gum so loud durring the recording that I drove myself nuts.

 

I'm going to try and do another tomorrow. Without the gum.

 

 

Everything you just describe is the same problem I'am having. The the back of the HB just does not sit high enough in my gun. running out of space on the bottom of HB.

I had the same problem , to gain elevation on the hb I probly took 3/16 off the bottom for the entire length of the body and ground the hump above the trigger axis pin deeper to the point that the hole just below the screw completely protruded from the bottom of the receiver. Then welded that hole closed and drilled and tapped another hole as close to the screw as I could. That still wasn't quit enough travel i ended up putting a very small notch on the lrbho where it catchs the carrier. When I insert a loaded mag the hb compress's the the round taking up the slack room in the mag. When you pull the carrier back it let's off the lrbho and the shell jumps to the top of the mag.

[hobbyshooter 59]

It seems to me the shape of the stopping surface would have more to do with auto closing on insertion of a loaded mag than anything else. I remember Tom saying he designed it so that it would auto close. Therefore the rear surface has a slight forward cant. If that surface were shaped so that it pointed straight up when in the up or locked bolt position it would hold the bolt carrier when the mag was loaded rather than sliding down and releasing.

[lksyotas 4]

I've found the same issue with my setup. When I load four rounds in my AGP mag it does not automatically actuate the bolt release but it will on a full mag. The lever will push the top round down into the mag body when it is partially loaded but there is to much spring tension in the mag on a full load and overcomes the spring holding the LRBHO in place.

 

I personally don't mind the auto bolt closing on a full mag. It will def. speed up the reloads during competition shooting but I'm afraid of getting a miss feed if the mag is not seated all the way stove piping the first round...We will see tomorrow, I'm going to give it a live fire run.

[rocinante 100]

You guys have totally convinced me NOT to do this LRBHO. It is one thing to shave a little bit off a drum or mag to get it to lock in but it all sounds like you guys have a hunk of metal that forces you to be junior engineers to guess how it is suppose to work. If it was just notch the bolt and file a tweak here and there cool but that is not what I am seeing at all. Brave souls all.

Edited March 26, 2011 by rocinante