takasaki 0 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hello when I install the top rail on my utg quad rail my saiga will jam every 2 or 3 rounds. If I take off the top rail the gun cyles like a dream. Is there a mod or fix anyone knows of to make the gun cycle with the top rail installed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hello when I install the top rail on my utg quad rail my saiga will jam every 2 or 3 rounds. If I take off the top rail the gun cyles like a dream. Is there a mod or fix anyone knows of to make the gun cycle with the top rail installed? Either fabricate some spacers or remove material from the inside so it doesn't clamp down on the gas system so hard. The guns don't like the gas systems clamped down on hard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yep that is the dirty little secret that no one talks about and it isn't just the UTG rail. I have seen that happen with all kinds of rails, the only thing I can guess is the quad rails and tri-rails in some instances do not let the gun flex enough to cycle. I have worked on several guns that cycled just fine prior to installing a quad rail, after installation the gun would cycle unreliably at best. I also had a personnel gun that would cycle great until I installed a side mounted optic, unfortunately I didn't put two and two together and chased my tail for a couple of weeks before I pulled the optic rail off and the gun started cycling again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Makc 64 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Either fabricate some spacers …………. so it doesn't clamp down on the gas system so hard. The guns don't like the gas systems clamped down on hard. +1 Deferent rail systems have different design and mounting options… UTG clamps to the gas tube - if over-tightened it might make your gun jam. When you hear folks say "Buy a Chaos. Fixed." what they mean is that the Chaos Quad Rail System is mounted and secured to the bottom of the gun first, and then the top rail is mounted to the bottom rail without clamping to the gas tube at all… Very well thought through rail system!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G-30 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. Um not 100%, I have the Chaos extended quad rail and it does the same thing as the OP's on my S-12. It looks like on mine it either binds up the gas system or it blocks the vent hole on the gas block too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. Um not 100%, I have the Chaos extended quad rail and it does the same thing as the OP's on my S-12. It looks like on mine it either binds up the gas system or it blocks the vent hole on the gas block too much. Yep I didn't want to say it but one of the guns I worked on had a Chaos rail, when the tri-rail was installed it ran pretty well, once the top rail was installed it would hardly cycle at all. That said I think it has more to do with the individual gun than any one rail design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. +1 My Chaos has never caused any problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
takasaki 0 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G-30 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. Um not 100%, I have the Chaos extended quad rail and it does the same thing as the OP's on my S-12. It looks like on mine it either binds up the gas system or it blocks the vent hole on the gas block too much. Yep I didn't want to say it but one of the guns I worked on had a Chaos rail, when the tri-rail was installed it ran pretty well, once the top rail was installed it would hardly cycle at all. That said I think it has more to do with the individual gun than any one rail design. I would agree, mine will run great with the tri-rail but not with the top rail on. So for some reason my gun does not like the top rail, I think it is probably a prety small percentage of guns that have this issue but it does happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Buy a Chaos. Fixed. Um not 100%, I have the Chaos extended quad rail and it does the same thing as the OP's on my S-12. It looks like on mine it either binds up the gas system or it blocks the vent hole on the gas block too much. Yep I didn't want to say it but one of the guns I worked on had a Chaos rail, when the tri-rail was installed it ran pretty well, once the top rail was installed it would hardly cycle at all. That said I think it has more to do with the individual gun than any one rail design. I think I'm having this same problem with the Chaos quad rail. Is there a fix?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stsai465 0 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 +1. Not sure if this is my issue, but now that I think of it, it's possible. Mine also has the UTG top rail. When I first got the gun, I cycled high-brass no problem. While doing so, I noticed my sight was wiggling and noted that the screws holding the top rail were loose, so I tightened them. The next day, at a 3-gun match, the same ammo was having quite a few cycling and FTF issues. I'm going to have to try and removing the top rail and see if that makes a diff. If it does, then I may decide to switch to a side-receiver rail to hold my sight instead (similar to my AK 7.62). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 There is more going on than meets the eye with regard to recoil. When you mount anything as bulky as these rails onto the gun it messes with the harmonics of the whole system and affects reliability. Sure, people been lucky and gotten them to work, but I wouldn't mess with it. It's called the "k.i.s.s. principle" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I drilled a hole into the side of my quad rail so the vent can breathe.. I'll be testing it out on Friday to see if it helps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parson Julabee Jones 32 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hello when I install the top rail on my utg quad rail my saiga will jam every 2 or 3 rounds. If I take off the top rail the gun cyles like a dream. Is there a mod or fix anyone knows of to make the gun cycle with the top rail installed? I've learned how to mount my UTG rail set without it negatively affecting my gun whatsover....I mount it in a extra gun parts bin, under the extra bed. Haven't had a misfire since.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuaSponte 1 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I drilled a hole into the side of my quad rail so the vent can breathe.. I'll be testing it out on Friday to see if it helps So did the hole work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Razr 23 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I drilled a hole into the side of my quad rail so the vent can breathe.. I'll be testing it out on Friday to see if it helps So did the hole work? I have UTG and the gun works like an raped ape . UTG rail is not supposed to cover exhaust port on the gas tube, so, it should not be an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fauxknight 30 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I've used the UTG and a Chaos Titan, they both mount completely differently, but they both also reduced cycling to some degree. Now that I'm properly gassed or close to properly gassed, it runs fairly well with the Titan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Mine runs great with this rail.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jef817 2 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Mine runs great with this rail.... +1000 on the factory tactical forarm,they fit the gun well,if you are lucky enough to find one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 hmm, gathering knowledge here. Very interesting. And yes did the hole work? There is a way to have an OEM tactical forearm and find one easily, go get one moded by tromix. That is the one I have. The one downside is that it did not come from the factory that way but it works the same and is even vented. Now I will take this opportunity to shamelessly post a pic of my S12 again along with the rest of you guys. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parson Julabee Jones 32 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hello when I install the top rail on my utg quad rail my saiga will jam every 2 or 3 rounds. If I take off the top rail the gun cyles like a dream. Is there a mod or fix anyone knows of to make the gun cycle with the top rail installed? I had the same problem, with the same UTG quad rail. I ended up using only the bottom 'tri-rail'. However, I added a shorter piece of rail (about 3 inches) from this device found on the ULTIMATE ARMS eBay store site, the UAG SHOTGUN TRI-RAIL WEAVER BASE BARREL CLAMP MOUNT-S3. The bottom of the rail from this mount is equal in width to the top of the UTG qual rail. I could use one set of holes already existing in the UAG rail, but had to drill and tap for a another set of holes in the top of the UTG bracket. This leaves the UTG rail with nothing bearing against the gas tube. But that in itself can present a problem, since the UTG rail, unlike the OEM forearm, has no extension to slide under the receiver base. That leaves only the single sling mount lug screw by which to mount the UTG lower section. I ended up having to use red Locktite in order to insure it remained tight during recoil from firing. And too, the little rubber rail covers have a tendency to slide forwards during recoil as well. So...I put a drop of super glue at strategic points on those as well. The two upper rails from the UTG set, short and long, were consequently cut up as needed to provide rails on other guns and so forth, actually giving me much more use out of them than they would have offered otherwise. Edited June 23, 2011 by PJJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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